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Regulus Arcturus Black (te_regulus) wrote in hogwarts_dawn,
@ 2021-03-22 12:23:00

Entry tags:

character: albus dumbledore, character: regulus black

RP: Regulus/Dumbledore
Who: Regulus/Dumbledore
When: morning 22 March
Where: Wizengamot office
What: Dumbledore offers to help

Regulus was in the Wizengamot room. He supposed that as Chief Warlock he could have his own office, but that seemed counterproductive. Instead he had picked one of the biggest classrooms on the seventh floor. He'd put four big desks against each other, giving them enough room to move papers around, and there were plenty of papers.

He had picked a robe that he'd found that was a lot less refined than his usual and even with charms, it still felt rough against his skin, but then he refused to ruin his finest when working with so much ink. He was in the midst of writing a message informing people of the legal changes when he saw Dumbledore step in.

He wondered what it was all about. Maybe they were done with the curriculum (and he couldn't imagine that Severus or Dumbledore would have needed more than a week or so to create curricula for a few classes. Even with searching for books, their days must be dull. "Are you here to help?" He might have dislike the man, but this version was younger and he did have a keen mind. "We wouldn't mind the assistance. Rewriting the entire penal code as quickly as possible is a challenge."

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te_regulus
2021-03-22 10:35 pm UTC (link)

"Right, sorry." He stretched his arm, offering his hand. "Regulus Black. I usually have better manners than this, but it's hard with you. You were the headmaster for most of us. I think we all assume that you should know, even though logically we know that's not the case."

He pointed to one of the other three empty chairs. "Please take one. "We've decided to put the four tables together so we can all have an input in the laws we pass. It's more collegial than what the Wizengamot used to be." He'd seen the backroom deals on every law; it hadn't been pretty.

"We've basically passed a law that abolishes every other law, but before we make that public, we've publishing a compendium of most natural laws that every society should have. Murder, manslaughter, theft. Those are very easy. We're also doing away with spell based laws, but concentrating on the act itself. As you can imagine, it starts getting difficult once we're talking about laws dealing with trespassing when we're living in a school or the size of cauldrons. And do we care about that?"

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oddmenttweak
2021-03-23 07:44 pm UTC (link)

"Pleasure. And I quite understand." Albus shook Regulus' hand firmly before making his way to the chair opposite him. He slid into it, folding his long arms and legs in as he listened to the younger wizards explanation.

"I see... may I?" He gestured to the documents spread out over the table before pulling the closest one towards him. Albus had been youth representative at the Wizengamot during his time at Hogwarts, but had never taken it any further, despite their occasional owl. He found it interesting, and was aware that his older self would eventually take up their offer, but at the moment it held little interest for him.

That said, the opportunities granted here were enormous. There was something to be said for starting from scratch.

"I suppose while we're so small in number, things such as cauldrons are of little consequence," he smiled, pulling his blue gaze from the parchment and fixing it on the other wizard. "So what have you covered so far? It looks like you've made a fair dent in it."

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te_regulus
2021-03-23 08:20 pm UTC (link)

Regulus doubted that the man had a clue of what feelings he evoked in people, but there was no reason to explain not when he would never be that man.

"Sure, go ahead. I'm curious about your thoughts on the matter, considering that you come from so long ago compared to us, and some said that you were one of the greatest minds." Of course Regulus thought that it was mostly because Dumbledore had either taught or been headmaster when most people had grown up, making him a figure of authority.

"Especially since at the moment, the best cauldron is whatever we can find," he said with a smirk. "International treaties would impose a lot of restrictions and we keep going back and forth. Do we want to invalidate all of them? On the one hand, we would isolate ourselves even more. On the other, they have isolated us already. If we don't have to play by international rules, we can use that as leverage. we'd have to be on the offensive from the get go?" He took an old fashioned diary. "We used this to write the new law. We can make copies when we have a little more, but as I said all types of murders, manslaughter theft."

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oddmenttweak
2021-03-24 11:06 am UTC (link)

From the choice of words, Albus supposed Regulus might not be one of those who thought of him as 'one of the greatest minds'. It very almost made him smile, but he managed to refrain. "Well, I'll do my best."

Pulling a few pieces of parchment towards him, he examined the text carefully.

"I think we'll struggle if we step away from all international treaties," he suggested, thoughtfully. "I would say it would be beneficial to be seen to be willing to work with them, at least. Even if we don't agree to them all, some must still hold their value?"

He shrugged, placing the pages he'd been examining carefully down on the table. "In many ways, it could be argued that we need them more than they need us. At least at the moment."

Albus glanced across at the book Regulus was holding, absently tapping long, ink-stained fingers on the wooden tabletop. He wondered whether he could see the resemblance to his ancestors. Albus had been a student when Phineas Nigellus was headmaster, and although he had admired him, he had found some of his viewpoints faintly distasteful. He didn't get quite the same feeling for this young man, however. At the very least, he seemed good for an interesting discussion.

"Sensible," he agreed, leaning forward in his chair a little. "Can I ask... when you say you're concentrating on the act, rather than the spell. I don't disagree, but I assume motive and intention plays a rather large role? I always believed the reason the unforgivable curses were unforgivable was because there is little question of what is intended."

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te_regulus
2021-03-24 06:48 pm UTC (link)

"Right, and that's what I thought, but does it matter if they hold value? We can always sign them again, but then they will be forced to deal with us and talk about each one, because I'm sure they don't care if we agree to the rules about the length of porcupine quills, but things like the Statute of Secrecy, taking care of magical beings within our territory?" He smiled at the mere idea of a rogue Britain.

"You're right that we need them, but they will care if they think that we're so desperate that we might go with the Muggle world. And honestly, we'll never win on a diplomatic level," Regulus said, shaking his head, because that would have been preferable, but alas they could only do with what they had. "Not only we don't have the international power, but Potter is more the fighting type. This will give him a weapon to use against the Confederation."

The specific laws became replaced by a more theoretical discussion, one that Regulus enjoyed. "I agree on motives and intention, but not on the Unforgivables, which is why we aren't banning them outright. What are the two reasons for banning them? Intent and that they tap on a dark part of ourselves. Let's look at intent. Say that someone is hurting a group of Muggles or children. He has defensive spells around him that prevent me to stop him. The only way to stop him is one of the unforgivables. The intent is to cast one of them but the reason is to stop him, so should we say that it's not justified because I intended to use an Unforgivable?"

He knew the other part might be a little more controversial, but they couldn't live in a world of black and white, when it had lead to their distraction. "Also it says that it taps into the evil part of us, but aren't we all a little evil? we can all find that part of us under the right circumstances. I think that the Unforgivables have such a terrible reputation, because being illegal, good people didn't use them and the people who did were already evil before using them. It's not that the Unforgivables make you evil, but that evil people tend to use them without caring about the reason."

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oddmenttweak
2021-03-27 11:59 am UTC (link)

"I think they're likely to talk to us anyway," Albus suggested. "They'll want to know what's going on here, about what we're up to. They won't want us carrying on unchecked, especially considering what happened here. Or, as you say, the risk of us contacting the muggle world."

Albus rested one elbow on the table, propping his chin in his palm as he considered. He couldn't help the glint in his eye. It had been a while since he'd had a conversation with real substance. Severus was a clever man, and Cassandra had always been bright, but there was a back and forth here that he had missed.

"I still would be tempted to sign those which benefit us, or are of little consequence. It never hurts to get people on side." He raised a wry eyebrow, a small smile emerging. " Perhaps don't use the word 'weapon' too much, though. There are only a few dozen of us."

The professor stayed where he was, propped up on his elbow, bright stare fixed almost unnervingly on Regulus as he spoke. For a split second, the conversation reminded him of another he had had, many years ago.

"I think you could argue that about almost all magic," he finally replied, his tone thoughtful. "Apart from a few exceptions, It's a tool, like anything else. And therefore not innately good or bad. But perhaps the fact that those 'evil' people use the unforgivable curses in such a manner is enough to make them illegal? Society has to draw a line somewhere, after all. Should we not err on the side of caution with such things?"

"I suppose it the question of whether something is justified or not is always a complicated one, especially when creating a new system."

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te_regulus
2021-03-27 05:04 pm UTC (link)

"But how much?" Regulus asked. "The might want to know what's happening, but if we're still subject to the Statute of Secrecy, they don't have to worry as much. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should wipe out everything. I think there are perfectly good international treaties that we should sign, including the Statute of Secrecy, but if we abolish our previous treaties, it means that the International Confederation needs to engage with us for each and every treaty. That gives us a chance to see what's really happening out there. It gives us some power, because otherwise we have none."

Regulus laughed. "I'm not sure how else to describe Potter. If you look at the history book, he is basically a weapon used by ... your older self and the Ministry to get things done. He's very much not a diplomat. I don't think the people out there won't know it, but I will refrain from using it in front of any foreign wizard."

He nodded. "Exactly, magic isn't good or evil it's the person, so why not ban the act and not the spell? Do it really make a difference how I kill someone?" Regulus said, before leaning back. "I've always wondered why you were always so against the Dark Arts. Other schools teach them and they seem to have a much better track records than this country. So what made you so against them?"

He shrugged "I think whether it's justified or not, it's a fact based question that the Wizengamot needs to determine on a case by case manner. Same spell, very different results depending on the situation, so instead of banning it because evil people use it, let the wizengamot decide if there was a legitimate reason. Our system is one based on case law anyway. I don't know why we need to draw the line at these three spells."

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oddmenttweak
2021-03-27 10:37 pm UTC (link)

Albus nodded along. He understood the reasoning, even agreed with it in a sense. There was a reason he'd decided to follow a path into teaching, and it was to keep clear of any such arching decisions. No, that was better left to people like Regulus Black.

Still, that did not mean he couldn't enjoy a good debate when it arrived.

"In the case of the killing curse, it could be argued that banning the act and the spell are one and the same," he put forward, his tone still simply thoughtful. "Surely you cannot tell people not to kill, but allow them to use the spell that exists for that one purpose."

Albus hesitated, unsure for a moment what he was about to say to the sincere question that had landed in his lap. But there were books in the library which gave out certain information freely. Perhaps a watered down version...

"My Father was sent to Azkaban for murdering muggles," he said, almost matter of factly. "Perhaps that is why I find such things... unpleasant. But as for education.. well, I cant speak for my older self, but personally, I think teenagers are quite capable of being cruel and causing damage without knowing dark arts. If anyone wishes to extend their knowledge after they leave Hogwarts, there are many ways to do so. But I would be reluctant to give such knowledge to those who are underage and perhaps unprepared."

Albus settled back in his chair again from where he'd been leaning forward, stretching long legs out in front of him as he quietly examined Regulus. "Well, we can only hope you will be able to stick to fining people for oversized cauldrons for a while yet," he finally replied, with a pleasant smile. You had to hope the castle had some criteria over who it brought in, after all. A vague thought occured to him.

"Although, that being said, has anyone checked Azkaban since we arrived here?"

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te_regulus
2021-03-28 01:40 am UTC (link)

Regulus grinned. "I never said that I want to ban killing, but murder," he said, enjoying this discussion a little too much. Very few people would keep up with him or even care. Remus would, but he was the only one. "I think that's where we differ. I think killing is on some occasions necessary. It's why there are justifications for killing and not for murder. You kill in cold blood, then you should go to jail. You kill in self-defense or the defense of others, then you shouldn't."

He shrugged. "My father was killed by your people for killing muggles." He probably should feel worse, but he accepted what his father had done and getting angry with anyone for killing his father seemed like a complete waste of time under the circumstances. "I wouldn't argue with that, but the people who want to find the information will anyway. You were a friend with Grindelwald, were you not? He went to Durmstrang and found the information, but Durmstang has been teaching the same thing for centuries and never created a Dark Wizard before. Do you think he wouldn't have found the information elsewhere? Don't you think that families like mine don't teach us before we even get to Hogwarts?"

He snorted. "I think we'll wave those requirements, together with that particular treaty." They would use what they found. If anyone wanted them to stick to regulated bottom thickness, they could provide new cauldrons. "Not that I know of. Potter said that all Dementors were kicked out after they supported Voldemort. So the jail would have been run by wizards. I guess the assumption is that everyone is dead, but maybe we should make a visit."

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