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Anonymous said (please sign next time!):
Before the first potion class, Ron tells Harry that supposedly Snape threats Gryffindors unfair. True, just a rumor. But a rumor which gets confirmed again and again in the book. And no amond of reinterpreting will make Snape a perfect teacher.
I agree with marionros that Harry was a terrible student and predisposed to read any impartial, professional attempt at imposing pedagogical discipline on him as “unfair” and proof of personal bias against Harry. I don’t agree that there were NO lapses from professional decorum on Snape’s part, but much of what Harry perceives as injustice evaporates upon close examination.
I’ll address below the probable source of the “rumor” that Snape treats Gryffindors unfairly.
But first, where, exactly, is this “rumor” “confirmed”? Much less time and again?
Honestly, if a teacher walks in at the tail end of a probable altercation to observe one group apparently behaving itself now (making faces at their enemies safely behind the teacher’s back), while the second group screams cusswords into the teacher’s face, it does NOT require hideously unprofessional bias on the teacher’s part to punish group 2 and not group 1 for their observed behavior.
Indeed, it would require overwhelming bias not to.
We don’t usually see Slytherins and Gryffindors behave the same under Snape’s eyes. The Slytherins are usually overtly obedient as long as they are under Snape’s direct observation, and they almost always address their professor respectfully rather than argue with him, scream curses in his face, or question his teaching. (The one observed deviation from that norm is Draco in sixth year—in a strictly private [he thought] conversation.) Harry and the Gryffindors… well, to put it charitably, we can’t ever praise their observed behavior as that of model students. In ANY of their classes, not just Snape’s.
So we don’t have too many direct points of comparison.
However, there are a few. We are explicitly shown several cases where we see Snape dealing with a Slytherin and a Gryffindor in parallel situations. On those occasions, Harry interprets Snape as showing bias when he treats both cases the same. Moreover, behavior that Harry considers “favoritism” when seen shown by Snape to Slytherins, Harry EXPECTS other teachers to extend to him.
The best example is the one I discussed at length in my essay “Mr. Filch has Asked: Discipline at Hogwarts.” Harry considers Snape grossly unfair, and the reader is strongly encouraged to agree, when, rivalry running high before the big Slytherin-Gryffindor game, Snape refuses to punish Slytherins for alleged assaults on Gryffindors that are not witnessed by authority figures.
[Snape] was also turning a deaf ear to the many reports of Slytherin attempts to hex Gryffindor players in the corridors. When Alicia Spinnet turned up in the hospital with her eyebrows growing so thick and fast that they obscured her vision and obstructed her mouth, Snape insisted that the must have attempted a Hair-Thickening Charm on herself and refused to listen to the fourteen eyewitnesses who insisted that they had seen the Slytherin Keeper, Miles Bletchley, hit her from behind with a jinx while she worked in the library. (OotP: The Lion and the Serpent)
Yet it goes unremarked that Minerva also apparently “refused to listen to” the witnesses—though we know from HBP that if the victim’s head of house catches an aggressor in the act, that professor can assign punishment (subject to the other house head’s ratification).
I argued that this incident demonstrates that the headmaster (our dear Albus) did not allow his staff to issue punishments on hearsay or circumstantial evidence (however compelling): that Albus demanded that his staff witness either the misdeed itself or a full confession in order to punish the offender.
And we see Snape apparently bound by that code WRT Harry in several incidents. In PoA when Snape caught Harry, muddy-handed and sweaty with a fresh bag of Zonko’s goodies, in a corridor Snape already had reason to suspect might contain an opening to a secret passage to Hogsmeade. Snape tried hard to get Harry to confess to breaking bounds and attacking Draco, Vince, and Greg by the Shrieking Shack, but he failed. And, having failed to induce Harry and his confederate Ron to confess, Snape did NOTHING to punish them.
Earlier, in CoS, Snape identified Harry as the one behind an explosion that injured several of his Slytherin children; but Harry didn’t confess, and Snape did NOTHING to punish the culprit. In the altercation in GoF, Snape did not punish Harry for using magic in the corridor, which he did not witness; only for shouting cusswords in Snape’s face, which he did.
How unfair did Harry (and does the reader) think it in PoA that when Harry and Ron persisted in their unblushing lies to Snape, the professor “refused to listen to” his truthful Slytherin eyewitnesses who gave Snape full details of Harry’s transgressions?
If letting off Bletchley without punishment (for an attack no authority could attest to) demonstrates Snape’s partiality for Slytherin, letting off Harry for similar offenses must demonstrate Snape’s partiality for Gryffindor.
*
For another example of how Harry (and the reader) take Snape to be biased against Gryffindors when he treats them the same as his Slytherins, look at Snape’s first DADA class in HBP. Hermione there was the first to master a nonverbal shield: “a feat that would surely have earned her twenty points for Gryffindor from any reasonable teacher, thought Harry bitterly, but which Snape ignored.”
Yet Harry did not consider it “bitterly unreasonable” that Snape didn’t award twenty points to Slytherin for Draco’s perfectly stewed slugs first year, did he? We never, in canon, saw Snape giving points to anyone for anything. So failing to give them to Hermione is not unfair. Now, if Snape were going around awarding twenty points to Slytherin every time Crabbe passed his teacher a phial (as Sprout once did for Harry’s handing her a watering pot), THAT would demonstrate that Snape’s points-awarding might be biased.
But he does not.
We know that Pomona will award unearned points to vent her private feelings.
If Severus ever succumbed to that temptation, we didn’t ever see it. And one would rather expect Harry to note such an event (with bitter invective about Snape’s unfairness).
So it seems to be the case that Snape just doesn’t hand out points. To anyone for anything. (Whitehound points out that to people from the north of England, as Severus is suggested to be, “Not bad” is the absolute height of fulsome praise, and silence means “Good job”…..) Which makes “slighting” Hermione not unreasonable bias, but treating her the same as he does his own house members.
*
Then there’s the Potions class in CoS where Draco annoyed Harry and Ron by flicking puffer-fish eyes at them, and Harry reflected “if they retaliated they would get detention faster than you could say, ‘Unfair.’” And sure enough, a year later, Ron “flung a large, slippery crocodile heart at Malfoy, which hit him in the face and caused Snape to take fifty points from Gryffindor.” (POA 10)
Clearly this substantiates the rumor that Snape treats his Slytherins and his Gryffindors differently!
Except—there was nothing to show that Snape actually saw the puffer-eye byplay and was turning a deliberate blind eye to Draco’s misbehavior. It’s Harry’s hypothesis that if he and Ron retaliated and Snape saw all three misbehaving in the same way, he’d punish only the Gryffindors. But there’s no evidential support for that hypothesis—for example, Harry didn’t recall a past incident when such a thing happened in Snape’s class. He just assumed Snape would behave like that, and assumed as a corollary that Snape saw and condoned Draco’s wrong-doing.
Except—on several occasions (the jeering at Hermione’s teeth and the Potter Stinks badges in GoF come immediately to mind), Slytherins are explicitly noted by JKR as making absolutely sure that Snape CAN’T SEE THEM before they start to misbehave. This strongly suggests that they expect that if caught, they would be punished. By Snape. So lack of punishment more strongly demonstrates that Slytherins were good (and possibly experienced!) at not getting caught than that Snape was deliberately overlooking their malfeasance.
And wasn’t there at least one incident in which someone flicking something (a firecracker) into an enemy’s cauldron caused an explosion and potions spill that injured half the class (not THEIR half, of course)? And Snape KNEW who had to have been responsible (and had physical evidence confirming it when Hermione turned up half-cat from botched Polyjuice from the ingredients stolen from his private stores that day)—but not having managed to catch the criminal in the act or induce a confession, he did NOTHING to punish the miscreant?
In fact, Harry lobbed that firecracker into Greg’s cauldron two paragraphs—two—after Harry and the narrative voice assured us that Snape was being grotesquely unfair in not punishing Draco for flicking puffer-fish eyes at Harry and Ron!
So if we must take Snape’s not punishing Draco for flicking puffer-fish eyes at Harry and Ron as proof of Snape’s unprofessional partiality for Slytherins and Draco, we must equally take his not punishing the Trio for an explosion, multiple-injury assault, and theft as proof of his gross partiality in Harry and Gryffindor’s favor.
(Which, indeed, if we had any data points outside of Harry’s class, might be a supportable contention. But it’s not one I’ve ever seen a Potter fan make, and it would certainly have made Harry faint to consider it. But in canon, Snape lets Harry get away with assaults on his fellow students without expelling him…! Multiple times. Up to near-manslaughter, a death only barely averted by Snape’s own extreme speed in reacting and skill at healing. And Harry’s own head of house said that Snape let Harry off very lightly for that last attack…. Would Snape have let a random unfavored student off with a mere few detentions for almost killing a fellow student? Oh wait, that’s right, Sirius was let off with the same for almost killing Severus, so apparently the precedent under Headmaster Albus is firm: ALMOST kill someone, a third party intervenes to save the victim through no doing of the almost-killer, no problem! We’ll give the almost-killer a few detentions and pat hir on the shoulder—better luck next time.)
*
Now consider detentions. We see Snape giving detentions to Gryffindors six times in six years (versus McGonagall’s eight to her own house and six to Slytherin): to Ron (POA), for overtly criticizing Snape’s teaching; to Neville (GoF), for his sixth cauldron-melting; to Harry and Ron (GoF), for screaming curses in his face; to Harry (HBP), for insolence (“You don’t need to call me sir”) and again for almost killing Draco.
Note that McGonagall and Snape each gave six detentions to the rival house.
But in HBP Harry finds out by accident that Crabbe and Goyle are serving detention—for slacking in Snape’s class. Which we know Harry has done repeatedly (and we know his teacher has known it) without earning a like punishment.
If anything, that limited data suggests that Snape is HARDER on his Slytherins for the most part (at least in regards to detentions). A chronically-underperforming Gryffindor must be openly insolent or cause a serious accident to earn a detention; a slacking Slytherin is pulled up sharply for not turning in his homework.
Now, holding one group to higher standards than another IS a form of favoritism—but I guarantee it’s not the form of favoritism that Harry considers Snape guilty of.
*
Finally, consider the issue of Snape’s punishment for students missing his class. In PoA, when Draco came late into Potions class when he was finally released from the hospital wing after being mauled by Buckbeak, Harry thought it extremely unfair that Snape didn’t punish Draco for missing part of class.
Malfoy didn’t reappear in classes until late on Thursday morning … halfway through double Potions. He swaggered into the dungeon, his right arm covered in bandages and bound up in a sling….
“How is it, Draco?” simpered Pansy Parkinson. “Does it hurt much?”
“Yeah,” said Malfoy, putting on a brave sort of grimace. But Harry saw him wink at Crabbe and Goyle when Pansy had looked away.
“Settle down, settle down,” said Professor Snape idly.
Harry and Ron scowled at each other. Snape wouldn’t have said “settle down” if they’d walked in late, he’d have given them detention. But Malfoy had always been able to get away with anything in Snape’s classes; Snape was head of Slytherin House, and generally favored his own students above all others.
A few weeks later, Harry spent so long talking with the Quidditch captain between classes that he was ten minutes late for DADA. He burst in saying, “Sorry I’m late, Professor Lupin, I—”
But it wasn’t Professor Lupin who looked up at him from the teacher’s desk, it was Snape.
“This lesson began ten minutes ago, Potter, so I think we’ll make it ten points from Gryffindor. Sit down.”
But Harry didn’t move.
“Where’s Professor Lupin?” he said.
“He says he is feeling too ill to teach today,” said Snape with a twisted smile. “I believe I told you to sit down?”
But Harry stayed where he was.
“What’s wrong with him?”
“Nothing life-threatening,” he said, looking as though he wished it were. “Five more points from Gryffindor, and if I have to ask you to sit down again, it will be fifty.”
Harry walked slowly to his seat and sat down. Snape looked around at the class. “As I was saying before Potter interrupted….”
Point one regarding Harry—one doesn’t burst in with excuses on one’s lips unless one expects the excuses to do some good. Harry apparently believed that if Professor Lupin knew that Harry had been detained by Wood giving him tips for winning for Gryffindor tomorrow, Gryffindor-favoring Lupin would let Harry off with little or no punishment.
The exact same thing Harry considered gross favoritism from Snape with Draco.
Furthermore, Draco’s tardiness was indeed fully justified, while Harry’s was not (except to someone who cared more for a Gryffindor Quidditch victory than for mere academics).
Harry knew precisely why Draco had not been in class on time, and he knew, moreover, that Snape knew it too. Draco had only just been released from Pomfrey’s care. What kind of teacher would punish any student, of any house, for showing up in class the moment he’s released from medical care (but not before)? What student would expect a teacher to punish for tardiness in such circumstances? Draco’s coming straight to class as soon as he’s cleared medically is commendable, not deplorable. But Harry seriously thinks that Snape shows himself biased by not punishing Draco for having been too injured to attend class before?
Bangs head against wall to clear it. Harry: you really think a fair teacher would punish a student for having been held out of class by Madam Pomfrey? Are you, Harry, telling us that every time you missed classes because of an injury, you experienced every teacher—or every fair teacher, which might leave out McGonagall—taking points from Gryffindor and issuing you detentions because you’d missed their classes? Really? That’s been happening all along, every time you’ve suffered an injury from Quidditch or from saving the school from Voldemort, only you’ve just been too noble and self-effacing to mention to the reader how your heroic deeds and sports exploits have earned you punishment instead of praise?
No, sorry, I don’t buy it. Draco had in no way earned any punishment, by any fair educator, by turning up after class had started with that particular excuse.
However, Draco’s late and swannish arrival did interrupt the normal flow of the class.
Any late (especially if loud, announced, and prominent!) arrival interrupts the class.
Which Snape did note, and address.
Both Draco and Harry interrupted their respective classes, coming in late as they did. And in BOTH cases, Snape gave the disruptive element fair warning to stop the disruption before he proceeded to inflict any punishment.
In fact, Harry got two warnings to Draco’s one.
“Settle down, settle down,” said Snape to Draco and the Slytherins; “Sit down…. I believe I told you to sit down?” to Harry.
Draco and the Slytherins immediately complied. Harry “didn’t move” and “stayed where he was” and rudely demanded that his substitute teacher answer his challenges until Snape finally went ahead and took five points and threatened to take more if Harry didn’t obey.
(And even then Jo notes for us that Harry walked “slowly” to his seat. Aggressive, much?)
Finally, in the next book we do see another instance where a student missed part of Snape’s Potions class because the student was kept out by another adult authority.
Colin was sent to drag Harry out of Snape’s class for the Triwizard photo op. Though clearly displeased (and in fact rather obviously considering the reason wholly inadequate), Snape took not a single point from Gryffindor, nor did he assign Harry detention for blatantly missing half of his class.
Obviously, Snape’s utter failure to punish Harry for skipping half of his class (at another authority’s instigation) MUST show that “[Potter] had always been able to get away with anything in Snape’s classes; Snape … generally favored… [Gryffindors] above all others”!
*
So if you want to persuade me that Snape DID treat his house with partiality unbecoming in a teacher, don’t tell me that Ron said so and that Harry thought so. Show me canon incidents where we KNOW that Snape witnessed the same behavior from Slytherins and other students, and treated them unequally.
Because what canon shows is that marionros is quite correct: in instances where we see Snape treat Gryffindors and Slytherins the same, Harry whings on at length about how Snape is clearly favoring his own house and hates Harry and the Gryffs.
*
Finally, let’s return to the issue of that initial “rumor” of Snape’s unfairness.
Does such a rumor exist, among the general student population?
It’s unquestionable that Harry believed Snape to be unfair in general and to hate Harry personally. And it’s canon that Ron Weasley, a few days into his first school term, told Harry, “Snape’s Head of Slytherin House. They say he always favors them—we’ll be able to see if it’s true.”
And also that “I’ve heard Snape can turn very nasty.”
But who’s the “they” who “say” this, given Ron’s background?
Ron’s Hufflepuff neighbor Cedric says so, when he comes over to play pickup Quidditch with the Weasleys every Saturday during the holidays (as we see him do throughout Harry’s many long stays at the Burrow)?
Ravenclaw Luna says her daddy says so, when she’s over on her numerous play dates with Ginny?
Ron has read this in the Prophet, which we see him following as assiduously in first year as Hermione later does in OotP?
Er, right.
How about, none of the above?
Ron was homeschooled and the Weasley children apparently didn’t associate regularly even with their closest WW neighbors. Ron’s source of information about the WW is his family. His inside information about Hogwarts comes from his older brothers.
Charlie’s in Romania by the time Ron starts Hogwarts, and Bill’s off in Africa, but Ron still has three other brothers to fill him in about the school.
And, er, which of them does Ron seem to pay attention to? However misguidedly?
Remind me again, what was the inside information that Ron passed on to Harry about how the school Sorted new students? “Some sort of test, I think. Fred said it hurts a lot, but I think he was joking.”
Right. Ron repeats the Twins’ (often deliberate) misinformation. In this case, he’s parroting the Twins’ slanders about Snape.
*
Now, Percy’s take on Snape, when asked directly by Harry the very first night, was that Snape would rather teach Defense than Potions and that Snape knows a lot about the Dark Arts. Interestingly, Percy is here promulgating the very myth that Dumbledore and Snape have concocted between them as part of Snape’s cover.
Notice, however, that Percy has no warnings for the little firstie that Snape favors his own house. No cautions that Harry should watch himself around Snape because Snape is always looking for an excuse to take points from Gryffindor. Not even any prefectly advice to Harry to watch his p’s & q’s in Potions class because the Potions master is exceptionally strict.
Which is really an odd omission; surely Percy the Perfect Prefect wants Gryffindor to win the House Cup if anyone does? If Snape were known for docking points excessively (whether from houses other than his own because Slytherin’s Head is biased, or because the Potions master is too severe to tolerate any hijinks in his class) shouldn’t Percy tell Harry so?
Now, Percy does go on to tell the firsties that Dumbledore’s “joke” about the third-floor corridor being lethal is serious, that the forest is full of dangerous beasts, and that Peeves is a menace. So he does take seriously his duty to warn the newbies of known hazards.
Apparently the potions master isn’t one of the known hazards facing Gryffindor firsties. Apparently Percy’s impression of Snape is that he’s fair enough, and not unduly harsh. It would follow that Percy must feel that any Gryffindors who kept having points taken by Snape or been issued multiple detentions must have richly earned such punishments.
Such as, say, Percy’s twin brothers who like to mess about, who’d rather pull pranks than do schoolwork, and who aren’t overly concerned about hurting other children in pursuit of their version of “fun.”
Frankly, the thought of the Twins in a potions class is utterly terrifying, even under Snape’s closest supervision. The Twins are bright, curious, and willing, indeed eager, to inflict pain, humiliation, and injury on others: for being “enemies” (giving Dudley potentially-lethal toffee, hissing little Malcolm’s sorting into Slytherin, hexing Draco from behind, stuffing Montague into a broken Vanishing Cabinet which could have killed him), for “a laugh” (attacking and maybe killing that salamander, giving Neville the Canary Creams) or just in the interests of experimentation (testing potions on eleven-year-olds).
Harry, in his second year, injured half his class in an explosion to create a diversion for Hermione to steal from the Potions master in what they both sincerely thought was a good cause. I can easily visualize the Twins doing the same for “fun.”
I can quite believe that the Twins’ experience of Snape might well have been that the Potions master “can turn very nasty.”
Oh, I do agree that Snape can.
Thank you, Professor!
(Melts in relief as the cavalry thunders over the hill to deal summarily with the class tormentors...)
*
“Mum! We weren’t doing anything bad, not really! It was just a laugh. That git just picks on us because we’re Gryffindors. Everyone knows that Snape favors his own house….”
*
So, yes, I think we know exactly where Ron picked up that particular rumor.
*
However, whether or not Snape EVER had any general reputation for favoring his house or coming down hard on Gryffindors in general, I think he did acquire an almost immediate reputation for taking Harry Potter (The Boy Who Lived, Voldemort’s Vanquisher, AKA James Potter’s lookalike son) in disfavor and coming down hard on him.
And I think he deliberately cultivated it, as part of his cover as a spy.
“Professor Snape,” after all, was a persona. Very seldom in seven books did we see Severus when he wasn’t wearing that mask. So whatever impression Snape made on Harry—and on Dumbledore’s supporters’ sons like Ron—and on former DE’s sons like Draco—and on Ministry employees’ children—was for the most part carefully calculated (with Dumbledore’s full approval) to serve Dumbledore’s ends.
Dumbledore’s man, “Professor Snape,” (whispered among some of the remaining free Death Eaters to have shared their allegiance) seemed to loathe Potter’s Son/Voldemort’s Vanquisher? Well, of course, his personal history with James Potter would explain that….
We have seen Severus apparently out of control a few times (the end of PoA, finding Harry frisking in the Pensieve, the end of HBP, some of the Prince’s memories…).
But the moment when Snape cemented his reputation of hating Harry Potter with an irrational passion by turning to the child and snapping, “You—Potter—why didn’t you tell him not to add the quills? Thought he’d make you look good if he got it wrong, did you? That’s another point you’ve lost for Gryffindor” was not among those.
That was an act. At Dumbledore's behest, or with Dumbledore's consent.
The real question is, why did Dumbledore insist that it be generally believed that Severus Snape hated Harry Potter?
Before the first potion class, Ron tells Harry that supposedly Snape threats Gryffindors unfair. True, just a rumor. But a rumor which gets confirmed again and again in the book. And no amond of reinterpreting will make Snape a perfect teacher.
I agree with marionros that Harry was a terrible student and predisposed to read any impartial, professional attempt at imposing pedagogical discipline on him as “unfair” and proof of personal bias against Harry. I don’t agree that there were NO lapses from professional decorum on Snape’s part, but much of what Harry perceives as injustice evaporates upon close examination.
I’ll address below the probable source of the “rumor” that Snape treats Gryffindors unfairly.
But first, where, exactly, is this “rumor” “confirmed”? Much less time and again?
Honestly, if a teacher walks in at the tail end of a probable altercation to observe one group apparently behaving itself now (making faces at their enemies safely behind the teacher’s back), while the second group screams cusswords into the teacher’s face, it does NOT require hideously unprofessional bias on the teacher’s part to punish group 2 and not group 1 for their observed behavior.
Indeed, it would require overwhelming bias not to.
We don’t usually see Slytherins and Gryffindors behave the same under Snape’s eyes. The Slytherins are usually overtly obedient as long as they are under Snape’s direct observation, and they almost always address their professor respectfully rather than argue with him, scream curses in his face, or question his teaching. (The one observed deviation from that norm is Draco in sixth year—in a strictly private [he thought] conversation.) Harry and the Gryffindors… well, to put it charitably, we can’t ever praise their observed behavior as that of model students. In ANY of their classes, not just Snape’s.
So we don’t have too many direct points of comparison.
However, there are a few. We are explicitly shown several cases where we see Snape dealing with a Slytherin and a Gryffindor in parallel situations. On those occasions, Harry interprets Snape as showing bias when he treats both cases the same. Moreover, behavior that Harry considers “favoritism” when seen shown by Snape to Slytherins, Harry EXPECTS other teachers to extend to him.
The best example is the one I discussed at length in my essay “Mr. Filch has Asked: Discipline at Hogwarts.” Harry considers Snape grossly unfair, and the reader is strongly encouraged to agree, when, rivalry running high before the big Slytherin-Gryffindor game, Snape refuses to punish Slytherins for alleged assaults on Gryffindors that are not witnessed by authority figures.
[Snape] was also turning a deaf ear to the many reports of Slytherin attempts to hex Gryffindor players in the corridors. When Alicia Spinnet turned up in the hospital with her eyebrows growing so thick and fast that they obscured her vision and obstructed her mouth, Snape insisted that the must have attempted a Hair-Thickening Charm on herself and refused to listen to the fourteen eyewitnesses who insisted that they had seen the Slytherin Keeper, Miles Bletchley, hit her from behind with a jinx while she worked in the library. (OotP: The Lion and the Serpent)
Yet it goes unremarked that Minerva also apparently “refused to listen to” the witnesses—though we know from HBP that if the victim’s head of house catches an aggressor in the act, that professor can assign punishment (subject to the other house head’s ratification).
I argued that this incident demonstrates that the headmaster (our dear Albus) did not allow his staff to issue punishments on hearsay or circumstantial evidence (however compelling): that Albus demanded that his staff witness either the misdeed itself or a full confession in order to punish the offender.
And we see Snape apparently bound by that code WRT Harry in several incidents. In PoA when Snape caught Harry, muddy-handed and sweaty with a fresh bag of Zonko’s goodies, in a corridor Snape already had reason to suspect might contain an opening to a secret passage to Hogsmeade. Snape tried hard to get Harry to confess to breaking bounds and attacking Draco, Vince, and Greg by the Shrieking Shack, but he failed. And, having failed to induce Harry and his confederate Ron to confess, Snape did NOTHING to punish them.
Earlier, in CoS, Snape identified Harry as the one behind an explosion that injured several of his Slytherin children; but Harry didn’t confess, and Snape did NOTHING to punish the culprit. In the altercation in GoF, Snape did not punish Harry for using magic in the corridor, which he did not witness; only for shouting cusswords in Snape’s face, which he did.
How unfair did Harry (and does the reader) think it in PoA that when Harry and Ron persisted in their unblushing lies to Snape, the professor “refused to listen to” his truthful Slytherin eyewitnesses who gave Snape full details of Harry’s transgressions?
If letting off Bletchley without punishment (for an attack no authority could attest to) demonstrates Snape’s partiality for Slytherin, letting off Harry for similar offenses must demonstrate Snape’s partiality for Gryffindor.
*
For another example of how Harry (and the reader) take Snape to be biased against Gryffindors when he treats them the same as his Slytherins, look at Snape’s first DADA class in HBP. Hermione there was the first to master a nonverbal shield: “a feat that would surely have earned her twenty points for Gryffindor from any reasonable teacher, thought Harry bitterly, but which Snape ignored.”
Yet Harry did not consider it “bitterly unreasonable” that Snape didn’t award twenty points to Slytherin for Draco’s perfectly stewed slugs first year, did he? We never, in canon, saw Snape giving points to anyone for anything. So failing to give them to Hermione is not unfair. Now, if Snape were going around awarding twenty points to Slytherin every time Crabbe passed his teacher a phial (as Sprout once did for Harry’s handing her a watering pot), THAT would demonstrate that Snape’s points-awarding might be biased.
But he does not.
We know that Pomona will award unearned points to vent her private feelings.
If Severus ever succumbed to that temptation, we didn’t ever see it. And one would rather expect Harry to note such an event (with bitter invective about Snape’s unfairness).
So it seems to be the case that Snape just doesn’t hand out points. To anyone for anything. (Whitehound points out that to people from the north of England, as Severus is suggested to be, “Not bad” is the absolute height of fulsome praise, and silence means “Good job”…..) Which makes “slighting” Hermione not unreasonable bias, but treating her the same as he does his own house members.
*
Then there’s the Potions class in CoS where Draco annoyed Harry and Ron by flicking puffer-fish eyes at them, and Harry reflected “if they retaliated they would get detention faster than you could say, ‘Unfair.’” And sure enough, a year later, Ron “flung a large, slippery crocodile heart at Malfoy, which hit him in the face and caused Snape to take fifty points from Gryffindor.” (POA 10)
Clearly this substantiates the rumor that Snape treats his Slytherins and his Gryffindors differently!
Except—there was nothing to show that Snape actually saw the puffer-eye byplay and was turning a deliberate blind eye to Draco’s misbehavior. It’s Harry’s hypothesis that if he and Ron retaliated and Snape saw all three misbehaving in the same way, he’d punish only the Gryffindors. But there’s no evidential support for that hypothesis—for example, Harry didn’t recall a past incident when such a thing happened in Snape’s class. He just assumed Snape would behave like that, and assumed as a corollary that Snape saw and condoned Draco’s wrong-doing.
Except—on several occasions (the jeering at Hermione’s teeth and the Potter Stinks badges in GoF come immediately to mind), Slytherins are explicitly noted by JKR as making absolutely sure that Snape CAN’T SEE THEM before they start to misbehave. This strongly suggests that they expect that if caught, they would be punished. By Snape. So lack of punishment more strongly demonstrates that Slytherins were good (and possibly experienced!) at not getting caught than that Snape was deliberately overlooking their malfeasance.
And wasn’t there at least one incident in which someone flicking something (a firecracker) into an enemy’s cauldron caused an explosion and potions spill that injured half the class (not THEIR half, of course)? And Snape KNEW who had to have been responsible (and had physical evidence confirming it when Hermione turned up half-cat from botched Polyjuice from the ingredients stolen from his private stores that day)—but not having managed to catch the criminal in the act or induce a confession, he did NOTHING to punish the miscreant?
In fact, Harry lobbed that firecracker into Greg’s cauldron two paragraphs—two—after Harry and the narrative voice assured us that Snape was being grotesquely unfair in not punishing Draco for flicking puffer-fish eyes at Harry and Ron!
So if we must take Snape’s not punishing Draco for flicking puffer-fish eyes at Harry and Ron as proof of Snape’s unprofessional partiality for Slytherins and Draco, we must equally take his not punishing the Trio for an explosion, multiple-injury assault, and theft as proof of his gross partiality in Harry and Gryffindor’s favor.
(Which, indeed, if we had any data points outside of Harry’s class, might be a supportable contention. But it’s not one I’ve ever seen a Potter fan make, and it would certainly have made Harry faint to consider it. But in canon, Snape lets Harry get away with assaults on his fellow students without expelling him…! Multiple times. Up to near-manslaughter, a death only barely averted by Snape’s own extreme speed in reacting and skill at healing. And Harry’s own head of house said that Snape let Harry off very lightly for that last attack…. Would Snape have let a random unfavored student off with a mere few detentions for almost killing a fellow student? Oh wait, that’s right, Sirius was let off with the same for almost killing Severus, so apparently the precedent under Headmaster Albus is firm: ALMOST kill someone, a third party intervenes to save the victim through no doing of the almost-killer, no problem! We’ll give the almost-killer a few detentions and pat hir on the shoulder—better luck next time.)
*
Now consider detentions. We see Snape giving detentions to Gryffindors six times in six years (versus McGonagall’s eight to her own house and six to Slytherin): to Ron (POA), for overtly criticizing Snape’s teaching; to Neville (GoF), for his sixth cauldron-melting; to Harry and Ron (GoF), for screaming curses in his face; to Harry (HBP), for insolence (“You don’t need to call me sir”) and again for almost killing Draco.
Note that McGonagall and Snape each gave six detentions to the rival house.
But in HBP Harry finds out by accident that Crabbe and Goyle are serving detention—for slacking in Snape’s class. Which we know Harry has done repeatedly (and we know his teacher has known it) without earning a like punishment.
If anything, that limited data suggests that Snape is HARDER on his Slytherins for the most part (at least in regards to detentions). A chronically-underperforming Gryffindor must be openly insolent or cause a serious accident to earn a detention; a slacking Slytherin is pulled up sharply for not turning in his homework.
Now, holding one group to higher standards than another IS a form of favoritism—but I guarantee it’s not the form of favoritism that Harry considers Snape guilty of.
*
Finally, consider the issue of Snape’s punishment for students missing his class. In PoA, when Draco came late into Potions class when he was finally released from the hospital wing after being mauled by Buckbeak, Harry thought it extremely unfair that Snape didn’t punish Draco for missing part of class.
Malfoy didn’t reappear in classes until late on Thursday morning … halfway through double Potions. He swaggered into the dungeon, his right arm covered in bandages and bound up in a sling….
“How is it, Draco?” simpered Pansy Parkinson. “Does it hurt much?”
“Yeah,” said Malfoy, putting on a brave sort of grimace. But Harry saw him wink at Crabbe and Goyle when Pansy had looked away.
“Settle down, settle down,” said Professor Snape idly.
Harry and Ron scowled at each other. Snape wouldn’t have said “settle down” if they’d walked in late, he’d have given them detention. But Malfoy had always been able to get away with anything in Snape’s classes; Snape was head of Slytherin House, and generally favored his own students above all others.
A few weeks later, Harry spent so long talking with the Quidditch captain between classes that he was ten minutes late for DADA. He burst in saying, “Sorry I’m late, Professor Lupin, I—”
But it wasn’t Professor Lupin who looked up at him from the teacher’s desk, it was Snape.
“This lesson began ten minutes ago, Potter, so I think we’ll make it ten points from Gryffindor. Sit down.”
But Harry didn’t move.
“Where’s Professor Lupin?” he said.
“He says he is feeling too ill to teach today,” said Snape with a twisted smile. “I believe I told you to sit down?”
But Harry stayed where he was.
“What’s wrong with him?”
“Nothing life-threatening,” he said, looking as though he wished it were. “Five more points from Gryffindor, and if I have to ask you to sit down again, it will be fifty.”
Harry walked slowly to his seat and sat down. Snape looked around at the class. “As I was saying before Potter interrupted….”
Point one regarding Harry—one doesn’t burst in with excuses on one’s lips unless one expects the excuses to do some good. Harry apparently believed that if Professor Lupin knew that Harry had been detained by Wood giving him tips for winning for Gryffindor tomorrow, Gryffindor-favoring Lupin would let Harry off with little or no punishment.
The exact same thing Harry considered gross favoritism from Snape with Draco.
Furthermore, Draco’s tardiness was indeed fully justified, while Harry’s was not (except to someone who cared more for a Gryffindor Quidditch victory than for mere academics).
Harry knew precisely why Draco had not been in class on time, and he knew, moreover, that Snape knew it too. Draco had only just been released from Pomfrey’s care. What kind of teacher would punish any student, of any house, for showing up in class the moment he’s released from medical care (but not before)? What student would expect a teacher to punish for tardiness in such circumstances? Draco’s coming straight to class as soon as he’s cleared medically is commendable, not deplorable. But Harry seriously thinks that Snape shows himself biased by not punishing Draco for having been too injured to attend class before?
Bangs head against wall to clear it. Harry: you really think a fair teacher would punish a student for having been held out of class by Madam Pomfrey? Are you, Harry, telling us that every time you missed classes because of an injury, you experienced every teacher—or every fair teacher, which might leave out McGonagall—taking points from Gryffindor and issuing you detentions because you’d missed their classes? Really? That’s been happening all along, every time you’ve suffered an injury from Quidditch or from saving the school from Voldemort, only you’ve just been too noble and self-effacing to mention to the reader how your heroic deeds and sports exploits have earned you punishment instead of praise?
No, sorry, I don’t buy it. Draco had in no way earned any punishment, by any fair educator, by turning up after class had started with that particular excuse.
However, Draco’s late and swannish arrival did interrupt the normal flow of the class.
Any late (especially if loud, announced, and prominent!) arrival interrupts the class.
Which Snape did note, and address.
Both Draco and Harry interrupted their respective classes, coming in late as they did. And in BOTH cases, Snape gave the disruptive element fair warning to stop the disruption before he proceeded to inflict any punishment.
In fact, Harry got two warnings to Draco’s one.
“Settle down, settle down,” said Snape to Draco and the Slytherins; “Sit down…. I believe I told you to sit down?” to Harry.
Draco and the Slytherins immediately complied. Harry “didn’t move” and “stayed where he was” and rudely demanded that his substitute teacher answer his challenges until Snape finally went ahead and took five points and threatened to take more if Harry didn’t obey.
(And even then Jo notes for us that Harry walked “slowly” to his seat. Aggressive, much?)
Finally, in the next book we do see another instance where a student missed part of Snape’s Potions class because the student was kept out by another adult authority.
Colin was sent to drag Harry out of Snape’s class for the Triwizard photo op. Though clearly displeased (and in fact rather obviously considering the reason wholly inadequate), Snape took not a single point from Gryffindor, nor did he assign Harry detention for blatantly missing half of his class.
Obviously, Snape’s utter failure to punish Harry for skipping half of his class (at another authority’s instigation) MUST show that “[Potter] had always been able to get away with anything in Snape’s classes; Snape … generally favored… [Gryffindors] above all others”!
*
So if you want to persuade me that Snape DID treat his house with partiality unbecoming in a teacher, don’t tell me that Ron said so and that Harry thought so. Show me canon incidents where we KNOW that Snape witnessed the same behavior from Slytherins and other students, and treated them unequally.
Because what canon shows is that marionros is quite correct: in instances where we see Snape treat Gryffindors and Slytherins the same, Harry whings on at length about how Snape is clearly favoring his own house and hates Harry and the Gryffs.
*
Finally, let’s return to the issue of that initial “rumor” of Snape’s unfairness.
Does such a rumor exist, among the general student population?
It’s unquestionable that Harry believed Snape to be unfair in general and to hate Harry personally. And it’s canon that Ron Weasley, a few days into his first school term, told Harry, “Snape’s Head of Slytherin House. They say he always favors them—we’ll be able to see if it’s true.”
And also that “I’ve heard Snape can turn very nasty.”
But who’s the “they” who “say” this, given Ron’s background?
Ron’s Hufflepuff neighbor Cedric says so, when he comes over to play pickup Quidditch with the Weasleys every Saturday during the holidays (as we see him do throughout Harry’s many long stays at the Burrow)?
Ravenclaw Luna says her daddy says so, when she’s over on her numerous play dates with Ginny?
Ron has read this in the Prophet, which we see him following as assiduously in first year as Hermione later does in OotP?
Er, right.
How about, none of the above?
Ron was homeschooled and the Weasley children apparently didn’t associate regularly even with their closest WW neighbors. Ron’s source of information about the WW is his family. His inside information about Hogwarts comes from his older brothers.
Charlie’s in Romania by the time Ron starts Hogwarts, and Bill’s off in Africa, but Ron still has three other brothers to fill him in about the school.
And, er, which of them does Ron seem to pay attention to? However misguidedly?
Remind me again, what was the inside information that Ron passed on to Harry about how the school Sorted new students? “Some sort of test, I think. Fred said it hurts a lot, but I think he was joking.”
Right. Ron repeats the Twins’ (often deliberate) misinformation. In this case, he’s parroting the Twins’ slanders about Snape.
*
Now, Percy’s take on Snape, when asked directly by Harry the very first night, was that Snape would rather teach Defense than Potions and that Snape knows a lot about the Dark Arts. Interestingly, Percy is here promulgating the very myth that Dumbledore and Snape have concocted between them as part of Snape’s cover.
Notice, however, that Percy has no warnings for the little firstie that Snape favors his own house. No cautions that Harry should watch himself around Snape because Snape is always looking for an excuse to take points from Gryffindor. Not even any prefectly advice to Harry to watch his p’s & q’s in Potions class because the Potions master is exceptionally strict.
Which is really an odd omission; surely Percy the Perfect Prefect wants Gryffindor to win the House Cup if anyone does? If Snape were known for docking points excessively (whether from houses other than his own because Slytherin’s Head is biased, or because the Potions master is too severe to tolerate any hijinks in his class) shouldn’t Percy tell Harry so?
Now, Percy does go on to tell the firsties that Dumbledore’s “joke” about the third-floor corridor being lethal is serious, that the forest is full of dangerous beasts, and that Peeves is a menace. So he does take seriously his duty to warn the newbies of known hazards.
Apparently the potions master isn’t one of the known hazards facing Gryffindor firsties. Apparently Percy’s impression of Snape is that he’s fair enough, and not unduly harsh. It would follow that Percy must feel that any Gryffindors who kept having points taken by Snape or been issued multiple detentions must have richly earned such punishments.
Such as, say, Percy’s twin brothers who like to mess about, who’d rather pull pranks than do schoolwork, and who aren’t overly concerned about hurting other children in pursuit of their version of “fun.”
Frankly, the thought of the Twins in a potions class is utterly terrifying, even under Snape’s closest supervision. The Twins are bright, curious, and willing, indeed eager, to inflict pain, humiliation, and injury on others: for being “enemies” (giving Dudley potentially-lethal toffee, hissing little Malcolm’s sorting into Slytherin, hexing Draco from behind, stuffing Montague into a broken Vanishing Cabinet which could have killed him), for “a laugh” (attacking and maybe killing that salamander, giving Neville the Canary Creams) or just in the interests of experimentation (testing potions on eleven-year-olds).
Harry, in his second year, injured half his class in an explosion to create a diversion for Hermione to steal from the Potions master in what they both sincerely thought was a good cause. I can easily visualize the Twins doing the same for “fun.”
I can quite believe that the Twins’ experience of Snape might well have been that the Potions master “can turn very nasty.”
Oh, I do agree that Snape can.
Thank you, Professor!
(Melts in relief as the cavalry thunders over the hill to deal summarily with the class tormentors...)
*
“Mum! We weren’t doing anything bad, not really! It was just a laugh. That git just picks on us because we’re Gryffindors. Everyone knows that Snape favors his own house….”
*
So, yes, I think we know exactly where Ron picked up that particular rumor.
*
However, whether or not Snape EVER had any general reputation for favoring his house or coming down hard on Gryffindors in general, I think he did acquire an almost immediate reputation for taking Harry Potter (The Boy Who Lived, Voldemort’s Vanquisher, AKA James Potter’s lookalike son) in disfavor and coming down hard on him.
And I think he deliberately cultivated it, as part of his cover as a spy.
“Professor Snape,” after all, was a persona. Very seldom in seven books did we see Severus when he wasn’t wearing that mask. So whatever impression Snape made on Harry—and on Dumbledore’s supporters’ sons like Ron—and on former DE’s sons like Draco—and on Ministry employees’ children—was for the most part carefully calculated (with Dumbledore’s full approval) to serve Dumbledore’s ends.
Dumbledore’s man, “Professor Snape,” (whispered among some of the remaining free Death Eaters to have shared their allegiance) seemed to loathe Potter’s Son/Voldemort’s Vanquisher? Well, of course, his personal history with James Potter would explain that….
We have seen Severus apparently out of control a few times (the end of PoA, finding Harry frisking in the Pensieve, the end of HBP, some of the Prince’s memories…).
But the moment when Snape cemented his reputation of hating Harry Potter with an irrational passion by turning to the child and snapping, “You—Potter—why didn’t you tell him not to add the quills? Thought he’d make you look good if he got it wrong, did you? That’s another point you’ve lost for Gryffindor” was not among those.
That was an act. At Dumbledore's behest, or with Dumbledore's consent.
The real question is, why did Dumbledore insist that it be generally believed that Severus Snape hated Harry Potter?
“Settle down, settle down,” said Snape to Draco and the Slytherins; “Sit down…. I believe I told you to sit down?” to Harry.
Draco and the Slytherins immediately complied. Harry “didn’t move” and “stayed where he was” and rudely demanded that his substitute teacher answer his challenges until Snape finally went ahead and took five points and threatened to take more if Harry didn’t obey.
Not true - he takes ten points off the top when Harry walks in ('...ten minutes ago, so I think we'll make it ten points from Gryffindor"), and then starts telling him to sit down. The five points he takes a couple sentences later are five more points. Not that I think this is horribly unfair of him to do, just saying that your parallel isn't quite there.
I have wondered exactly who the "they" saying Severus favors the Slytherins must be, and come to the same conclusion, that it had to be his family. So I enjoyed the discussion about his various siblings' takes on Professor Snape. But though the twins are the likely last link in the chain I don't know that it would have to be only them and their own (probable) wrongdoing. The older brothers are away now, but that wasn't always the case. And it could be friends of Fred and George, i.e., them repeating to Ron things they heard about rather than directly experienced or witnessed.
I don't think I can agree with the final point that it was all an act, though. I will believe that some of that is at work later on, but despite Dumbledore's assurances in 1981 that the Dark Lord would rise again, Severus was not being an active spy in 1991.
If Dumbledore did not know this, and did not warn his young potions master, then he was even more careless and thoughtless than we have surmised.
But you're quite right about the points difference. Severus did take points from Harry right away, while he didn't from Draco.
Taking points from Harry
But then, I've worked as a substitute teacher. (A rather poor one--I was pants at classroom management.)
Everything about Harry's arrival screams that he has no valid reason for being late, but that he hopes the teacher will let him off lightly anyhow. He's been running, he "dashes" in with apologies on his lips--all signs that he hopes his alacrity now will make up for his losing track of time (or whatever his excuse is) earlier. (Though in my schools, running in the hall would have aggravated the offense of tardiness.)
Had he been detained by the headmaster, had he been helping Madam Hooch, had he had any legitiate reason for being late, he'd have walked in calmly (probably with either a note or an escort confirming his valid reason).
Any experienced teacher could tell at a glance that Harry might give an excuse for being late (I forgot my homework and had to go all the way to Gryffindor Tower to get it!), but he had no acceptable reason.
Presumably you think Professor Snape should have asked for Harry's excuse before taking the points?
With an inexperienced teacher, that can turn into a spirited and widely-ranging class debate on exactly what punishment is deserved for thie partiicular mitigating factor of the offense of tardiness. The rival merits of mercy and fairness, the exact determination of what would be fair in this case, can be passionately debated by thirteen-year-olds. Particularly if the alternative is math.
Or, I assume, DADA.
So yes, Professor Snape punished Harry for being tardy for no valid reason, he didn't punish Draco for being tardy for a perfectly legiitimate (and universally known) reason, but he went on from there to give them both warnings to stop disrupitng the class.
I suggested no such thing, merely pointed out that "He gave Harry warnings before he started taking points" was simply factually untrue given the dialogue.
Warnings
He gave both Harry and Draco fair warning and a chance to stop before he deducted points for disrupting the class.
Professor Snape deducted points from Harry for tardiness without warning him first that he might. (Potter, if you ever skip part of a class without good reason, you might be punished.... ) But this is part-way through third year, after all. Harry's own behavrior shows he knows perfectly well he'd earned punishment for such tardiness.
My point is, there are two separate offences here: skipping part of class, and disrupting the class with a late entrance. Harry alone was guilty of the first; Harry and Draco both were guilty of the second. We saw Harry punished for unexcused tardiness; for the mutual offense, we saw Harry and Draco BOTH given warnings first and a chance to amend their behavior before punishment was meted out.
So my overall point holds: where the misdeed was actually the same, Professor Snape's reaction was the same. But Harry felt, and told us, that Snape was biased.
(Now, had there ever been a canon class when Draco strolled in late without the excuse of having just been released from Hospital, and Professor Snape let his tardy arrival pass without punishment.... but there was not.)
But you're quite right, my original post was not accurate. As I said, I should have completed the Harry/Draco contrast before I started the comparison.
"All an act"?
Compare how he speaks to Harry here versus in PoA 14, 19, & 22 (after Harry has started to act like James, and has legitimately earned his teacher's actual dislike by laziness, insolence, and repeated misbehavior--including deliberately injuring Slytherins and wilfully riskiing contact with the mass-murderer Snape is trying to protect Harry from). No skin going "the color of sour milk," no shrieking, no looking "madder than ever," no spittle flying from his mouth. Snape does, I think, by PoA genuinely dislike the boy, and he's furious when he sees the boy acting like James.
But here at the start? His eyes are cold, not glittering with rage or hatred; he's not grinning terribly at Harry; he's sneering and snapping, not whispering or shouting. He's driving the boy to dislike him; I don't think he yet dislikes Harry.
not only the twins
duj
Re: not only the twins
Re: not only the twins
Re: not only the twins
All we know of Bill-the-adult is that he goes out of his way to 'look cool' (hair, earring), has a job that any muggle would identify as 'Playing Indiana Jones' and has to get the flashiest, prettiest girlfriend.
Yes, I know I'm uncharitable, and I have no beef with Bill, but he *is* consciously portrayed as 'the coolest dude in the WW', so I'm just wondering what 'Mr. Cool' was like as a school kid. I'm sure he wasn't the kind of hellion a la the Twins, but he sure as heck wasn't Percy either.
Yes, I admit it! I loathe the Weasleys - with the exception of Percy. I find them vulgar, ignorant, loud and self-congratulatory in a, well, vulgar, ignorant way. Since we never hear of Molly complaining about Severus-as-a-teacher, and since Molly is *definately* the kind of woman/mother who would come to school, ready to do battle with anybody who she suspects of 'being mean to her bayyybeees!', we can conclude that Severus' much-touted 'unfairness' is wholly in the mind of Ron and Harry (I don't believe for a second that the Twins truly believe Snape to be truly unfair. It's just their excuse, and they know it. They are many things - cruel, anti-social and vindictive - but self-deluding they are not)
Re: not only the twins
We never see her acting like that, though. She sends the Howler to Ron (when he gets Arthur in trouble) and she gives some unspecified warning to the twins about getting owls from the school complaining about them. The twins fear her at least as much as the Slytherin students fear Severus - they keep about their business but don't want to get caught by her.
Re: not only the twins
Molly is such a vulgar, ignorant woman, it would fit her, the archetypal Smothering Mother perfectly if she *did*, y'know, went to confront the teacher he kids complained about.
But she doesn't. Darn.
Bill doesn't like him (Snape) either
But you're also right, "I don't like him" (in 1995? 96?) doesn't in any way imply "In 1981/2 this teacher was grossly partisan and unprofessional in his grading and poiint-taking."
But it absolutely doesn't rule that iparticular nterjection out.
However, Gred and Forge in this chapter are talking of Snape as being "a git," and the specific thing the Weasleys seem now to hold against him is how Snape "looks at them" when they catch his eye
Indeed, "distrust" is your own interpolation. Bill might well trust Severus impliicitly, both as a spy and as a teacher, but prefer not to socialize with him.
From what Ginny says.
The debate among the kids is essentially over whether theyr're obliged to tender Snape respect now, against their wishes. NOT over whether to follow their elders in believing him. Can they persist in calling Snape a git, sometimes to his face, or do his services to the Order preclude them dissing him in such a manner?
And I agree with you entierly, duj and maidofkent2. that those students who experienced Severus in his first year of teaching might not, perhaps, have encountered their new professor at the very top of his game.
Suicidal despair and overwhelming guilt are not generally held to improve either one's performance or one's temper.
Re: Bill doesn't like him (Snape) either
Also important is the fact that there are 7th years in Bill's first year, who were firsties during the time of SWM. They most probably did not personally witness SWM up close (not being part of the OWLs), but might have seen it out of the classroom window. They most surely 'heard' about it through the rumor mill.
Even if they had not, they and the next 2 years after them (6th & 5th years to Bill's 1st) would certainly be aware of the nickname 'Snivelous' at the very least. And I'm quite sure he and his nickname were discussed in the Gryffie common room. Snape had to come in tough to have any discipline at all in his classroom.
I truly believe that he was probably MUCH tougher (in general) during those first few years in which he was teaching kids that had known of him during his own school years. Between attempts to squelch the appearance of grief and probable talk of Sniveloius in the halls, I feel pretty sure that he was rather 'nasty' at the time - probably even more than in Harry's time.
As for Snape's 'act' as a spy - it did not begin in '91 when Harry arrived. He had still been acting under cover all those years since he began teaching. One could consider him like a 'sleeper' in spy terminology. Must begin and STAY the way one cover demands - even when it appears that it wasn't needed.
After all, Snape had inside info - he knew Voldy was not gone forever. He would need to resume his spying duties. He could not afford to appear to change with the downfall of Voldy - not if he would be needed again later
One thing to note - Bill got all 'outstandings' (12) on his OWLs. Presumably he was therefore actually good at potions. Certainly good enough to take it as a NEWT (unknown whether he did or not) -- Hwyla
Re: Bill doesn't like him (Snape) either
Fred says of Percy "He's not himself. His exam results came the day before you did; twelve O.W.L.s and he hardly gloated at all."
"Ordinary Wizarding Levels," George explained, seeing Harry's puzzled look. "Bill got twelve too. If we're not careful, we'll have another Head Boy in the family. I don't think I could stand the shame."
So we know he passed Potions - as did Harry, though we don't know if he excelled in the subject. But the fact that he took all elective classes and managed the workload suggests he was more studious than average in general.
Re: Bill doesn't like him (Snape) either
This is off-topic, but isn't it strange that Harry doesn't know what OWLs are until 2nd year. The kid was totally oblivious to all the 5th and 7th years studying for OWLs and NEWTs? -- Hwyla
Re: Bill doesn't like him (Snape) either
Thanks for posting this!
Yes, Harry gets alot of detentions, but Minerva gives plenty to Draco as well. We don't know about other teachers, but I always assumed they all gave detentions.
Here's an example of Snape dealing with similar situations. The reason people like your Anonymous miss the times that SNape is fair is that they focus on the few times when Harry thinks he isn't. You have to really study the whole series and not pick and choose, in my opinion.
In SS/PS, Draco is making fun of Ron's family and Snape walks up:
Then in Order of the Phoenix, the tables have turned. Draco's father is in prison, and Harry is taunting HIM.
Yeah, he really sounds angry that he couldn't take points away, doesn't he? And then we have the following, in which Harry can tell that Snape is not being sincere when he pretends to be shocked over more points for Gryffindor.
When really, there's not a person alive even in our modern Muggle school system who hasn't had an unfair teacher, an unfair punishment, had to write sentences, had to keep detention, or been embarrassed in class. It's part of life. It happens in elementary school, in college, in grad school. My daughter deals with Snape-worthy or even Umbridge-worthy teachers in Law School, and even some Lockharts and Lupins. We survive, and Harry survives - it's universal, but it's not the end of the world.
not any
Slight correction: he doesn't give *any*.
duj
Of the four who got points that day you single Neville out? He was the only one who was acting sensibly. Harry and his friends acted out of good intentions that would have easily led to Voldemort getting the stone (if only Quirrell had the brains to kill Harry without touching him and without casting a spell directly on him - just like he attempted during the Quidditch game - all he needed was to summon the club from the passed-out troll and spell it to bludgeon Harry repeatedly). Albus was being unfair by rewarding the reckless behavior of the trio with an inordinate number of points. And he was being provocative by doing so *at the feast*, after the Great Hall was already decorated with Slytherin colors.
There's also a sense that Snape speaks neutrally or tolerantly to Slytherins where he'd be curt and hostile to a Gryffindor in the same situation. This on its own is minor enough that any student who complained to Dumbledore about it would be made to feel ridiculous. But it contributes to the general impression of bias. "Settle down, settle down" sounds quite indulgent given that Draco is disrupting Snape's class. Readers assume (possibly correctly) that a Gryffindor would have been ordered to quit showing off.
Percy probably got on well with Snape. He must have been close to Snape's ideal student: smart, hardworking, respectful and liable to take criticism to heart. I agree that he'd feel any student who got in Snape's bad books would have brought it on themselves, like his appalling brothers (however, he fails to take the Neville types into account).
Re: why Dumbledore wants it rumored that Snape hates Harry, the only reason I can think of is Snape's standing with Voldemort, who might not approve if he heard Snape had been cosying up to his archenemy. Of course Snape's actual dislike of Harry also suits DD's plans perfectly. He definitely wouldn't want Snape to get attached to Lily's son and maybe kick up a fuss about having him killed.
Settle down... Sit down!
Yes, by not spelling out Hogwarts' unwritten rules, JKR can make Harry still be a victim even while he benefits from them (by whinging when they catch him, staying silent when they protect him from punishment, and whinging when the same rules that just protected him from punishment fail to protect him from Draco's maliice.).
And yes, Snape's tone differs when he talks to Slytherins and Gryffindors.
But it's important that that's the only thing that really does.
"Settle down.... Sit down, Potter!" That's the real difference.
On the one hand, that's a normal difference for an authority figure to use between speaking to a (member of a) group that s/he expects to obey with just a gentle reminder, and speaking to (a member of a) group that s/he expects to disobey hir until bludgeoned into submission. (Five more points, and if you persist I'll make it fifty! Want a detention too?)
So if you look at this interaction from Severus's point of view, he's treated Harry exactly the same as he treated Draco, given the difference in how the two entered and how he expected them to react. Draco was tardy for a valid reason; he raised a commotion upon his entry; the moment his teacher told him to settle down, he did.
Harry was late with no valid reason; he raised a commotion upon his entry; his teacher told him to sit down, and Harry instead escalated the commotion.
Justifying the teacher's feelings that this student just wants to make trouble. (Which Harry did: what he suspected, after all, was that Professor Snape had seized the opportunity of being forced by Dumbledore to brew medicines for Lupin to poison the werewolf. If you were a thirteen-year-old student, sincerely thinking that the mean substitude teacher had just poisoned your beloved regular teacher to steal his postion, wouldn't you try to raise a stink? Really?)
And you're right, any student who complained to Dumbles about Snape's tone would sound an idiot: when he reproves ME, he says sit down; when he talks to DRACO, he says, settle down.
Don't you see how cruel and unfair he's being?
Rumors that Snape hates Harry: I think that Snape used his legendary hatred for James Potter as part of his cover over his contined weak spot about Potter's wife.
Let's put it this way: if someone were aware that both were true, Severus's feelings towards Harry would be a litmus test as to which emotions were more important/central.
What matters more: Severus's feelings about James Potter, or his feelings about Lily Evans Potter?
If Severus had hated James Potter, and that hatred/jealousy/resentment bad been increased by James's success in attracting the woman Severus had unavailingly courted, Severus, seeing James in Harry, should hate the boy more for his father's success at Snape's expense.
If Severus had truly loved Lily Evans, regardless of her poor judgement in succumbing to Potter's lures, Severus, seeing Lily in Harry (or caring more for Lily's feelings than his own), should protect the boy for his mother's sake. Regardless of any of his father's flaws that Harry shows, however Severus may hate them. Severus might well protect Lily's child even to the extent of surrendering his own life to try to shield the boy.
Until someone he trusts tells him, Lily's killer will range free, killing everyone in his path, until Lily's son dies at the killer's wand.
Hating James Potter/lloving Lily Evans Potter. Which is really paramount, determines Snape's actions.
What does Severus really do?
And what does he try hard to make it seem that he does?
And if those two are not in agrrement, that tells us the rest.
Re: Settle down... Sit down!
Re: Settle down... Sit down!
However, I am of the belief that Snape would have probably be better with either a) older students (NEWT and above) or b) research position. Working with younger students when his life had so much stress already was probably not a good idea.
I don't see much of classroom management policies in the book - more hit and miss. If I was a teacher at Hogwarts... I'd probably end up like Snape as well. (I'd be a cross between martinet and Gandalf.) Last year, I had a class of hormonally-driven students and ended up instituting more rules to keep things in check. Still, we ended up respecting each other and they continue to greet me with sincere friendship. IMO, things like magic or hormones actually call for greater vigilance and if you don't set boundaries or rules, children actually feel unsafe and unloved.
Well, the only thing I'd quibble at is that conflict resolution skills are abominable in the book and regular disciplinary actions are almost non-existent (perhaps they ARE non-existent). It might be something that Rawling actually doesn't think/care about or doesn't know how to achieve? Perhaps her own experiences as a child colour her work (totally possible). Either way, it makes for a sad statement about school life in general.
"'I do feel so sorry,' said Draco Malfoy, one Potions class, 'for all those people who have to stay at Hogwarts for Christmas because they're not wanted at home.'
He was looking over at Harry as he spoke. Crabbe and Goyle chuckled. Harry, who was measuring out powdered spine of lionfish, ignored them."
So Snape supposedly isn't able to hear Draco, although he is speaking loud enough to be overheard by Harry? He must be deaf!
But what really sealed my opinion about Snape as a teacher are two scenes. The first one from Harry's first potion lesson (long before he had any opportunity to be a trouble maker):
"Things didn't improve for the Gryffindors as the Potions lesson continued. Snape put them all into pairs and set them to mixing up a simple potion to cure boils. He swept around in his long black cloak, watching them weigh dried nettles and crush snake fangs, criticising almost everyone except Malfoy, whom he seemed to like."
So it's established that some time has passed since the inicial face off between Harry and Snape which ended with Snape taking points. Presumely Harry is quietly working with Ron.
"He was just telling everyone to look at the perfect way Malfoy had stewed his horned slugs when clouds of acid green smoke and a loud hissing filled the dungeon. Neville had somehow managed to melt Seamus's cauldron into a twisted blob and their potion was seeping across the stone floor, burning holes in people's shoes. Within seconds, the whole class was standing on their stools while Neville, who had been drenched in the potion when the cauldron collapsed, moaned in pain as angry red boils sprang up all over his arms and legs.
'Idiot boy!' snarled Snape, clearing the spilled potion away with one wave of his wand. 'I suppose you added the porcupine quills before taking the cauldron off the fire?' "
Really, how much of this explanation is Neville supposed to understand, being in pain? And what's gained by insulting him, he already is punished enough for his mistake.
"Neville whimpered as boils started to pop up all over his nose.
'Take him up to the hospital wing,' Snape spat at Seamus. Then he rounded on Harry and Ron, who had been working next to Neville.
'You -- Potter -- why didn't you tell him not to add the quills?"
Why should he? First of all, he was working with Ron, not with Neville. Second, he was supposed to watch Draco when the accident happened. There is no reason to accuse Harry of anything at all.
"Thought he'd make you look good if he got it wrong, did you? That's another point you've lost for Gryffindor.' "
To get this straight: Snape is accusing Harry of being hinterhanded enough to deliberatly allowing Neville to hurt himself. That is way over the line.
Even worse is Snape's behaviour towards Neville. Yes, I get he is a bad student. But what Snape does to him is bordering on abuse - the incident with the toad actually IS abuse in my book. Also what he does later on:
"'Possibly no one's warned you, Lupin, but this class contains Neville Longbottom. I would advise you not to entrust him with anything difficult. Not unless Miss Granger is hissing instructions in his ear.'
Neville went scarlet. Harry glared at Snape; it was bad enough that he bullied Neville in his own classes, let alone doing it in front of other teachers."
And Harry is right. Snape has no business to put Neville down publicy. And how is Snape supposed to know how Neville's abilities are in the other subjects?
So really, it doesn't matter to me how unfair Snape really is or isn't. Those are two instances in which he actively is bullying two of his students, with no reasonable provocation. He is the adult and he misuses his power.
He punishes Ron for physical violence, which is something Minerva agrees with him as punishable. He lets Draco off for using words to insult - just as Minerva does. They are both following the 'sticks and stones' rule - apparently that's how Hogwarts works. Unless you have evidence for any teacher punishing a student for words alone?
Really, how much of this explanation is Neville supposed to understand, being in pain? And what's gained by insulting him, he already is punished enough for his mistake.
What Severus gains is cred with Lucius Malfoy, Crabbe Sr, Goyle Sr and Nott Sr. As for Neville - he doesn't need to understand the full explanation now. All he needs to know is that his pain was not caused randomly but was the result of not following instructions to the letter.
The accusation against Harry is mere rhetoric (which adds to Severus' cred and image), but the punishment is merely one point off, nor does it matter whom he claims to be the one to have lost the point, as long as he gets the House right.
BTW, by which handle to you wish to be known here?
insults, pt 1
First, a reminder that insults and inflammatory comment are not punishable at Hogwarts. The badges are widespread at Hogwarts, and we don't see any teacher complain about them at any time.
The badges have two messages, the default message"Support CEDRIC DIGGORY - the REAL Hogwarts Champion!", which glows red, and a hidden message "POTTER STINKS" that is activated by pressing the badge and which "glows" green. It's described as "flashing", which in context seems to mean that the message appears very briefly, not that it pulsates. It's not clear that Snape ever sees the green message, in which case, if he registers the colour change at all, he still wouldn't know that it was being used to insult.
There are two Potions classes in which Malfoy flashes "Potter Stinks" at Harry.
1) Draco "turned his back on Snape" to flash the badge, so Snape definitely didn't see that one. Subsequently, Harry was called out early from the lesson, at which point we're told "As he walked through the Slytherin desks, POTTER STINKS flashed at him from every direction." It seems likely that Snape saw *something*, but canon doesn't specify what. Since the message quickly changes back to the default, Slytherins who were facing him could press it while Harry was between him and them, secure in knowing that their badges would have switched back before they were in his sight.
2) "Hermione, Harry and Ron headed for a table at the back of the dungeon as usual ... an icy voice right behind them...Snape had glided over to their desk while they were talking. The whole class was now looking around at them; Malfoy took the opportunity to flash POTTER STINKS across the dungeon at Harry." Snape was somewhere between side-on and back-turned to Draco.
In GoF, Harry always chooses to sit at the back of the classroom and on the Gryffindor side of the room, which seems to be the one further from the door, but this is not the case in every book. Harry is working very close to Draco when that comment about "people who have to stay at home for Xmas" is made, while Snape is roaming the room, checking work and reminding them of the next step, as he usually does while they brew. So, yes, there is every reason to suppose that Snape is unable to hear what Harry hears clearly. (Similarly, in the puffer-fish eyes/crocodile heart incident, Harry and Ron are working next to Draco.)
"Really, how much of this explanation is Neville supposed to understand, being in pain?"
If you don't pay attention to the instructions, you get hurt.
"And what's gained by insulting him"
Nothing, but in old-fashioned schools like Hogwarts, sarcasm and insults were considered appropriate for poor work. Minerva insults Neville too when he makes mistakes, and Flitwick makes misbehaving students write "I am a wizard, not a baboon waving a stick."
duj
insults, pt 2
True. OTOH, it's only one point and this is the only occasion in canon that he punishes Harry unjustly. He seems to have expected Harry to be as naturally brilliant and talented as *both* Harry's parents were, so he's primed to interpret Harry's ineptitude as deliberate, rebellious or careless, and Harry has reinforced that perspective by his reaction to Snape's quiz: indignation at being expected to know anything, and cheek. Later, of course, Snape has lowered his expectations and learned to expect Harry's determined mediocrity.
Snape is in a peculiar position as Harry's teacher, in that he not only *knows* that Harry is going to have to fight Voldemort but he is also sworn to protect him. He has a very personal connection with Harry, and he doesn't have the option of recusing himself from teaching the boy who pushes all his emotional buttons. He *must* stay at Hogwarts as the Potions-master.
For instance, it's possible that this over-reaction and misplaced blame was prompted by end-game considerations, because he would naturally suppose that Harry will have more chance of surviving if he's constantly aware of what's going on around him, whether it's strictly his concern or not.
"Second, he was supposed to watch Draco when the accident happened."
You're not allowing for the time lapse between mistake and result. The cauldrons are off the fire. (Otherwise Snape wouldn't "suppose" Neville added the quills before removing it; he'd *know*. Also it wouldn't be safe for Snape to call the other kids to look at Draco's work if they were still in the middle of brewing.) But Neville had added the quills *before* taking his cauldron off the fire.
"Snape is accusing Harry of being hinterhanded enough to deliberatly allowing Neville to hurt himself."
Yes. Perhaps because Harry's dad was an underhanded bully, or perhaps because he was still convinced that Harry's capabilities were greater than they turned out to be. The accusation was both unfair and incorrect.
"the incident with the toad actually IS abuse in my book"
It would be considered so in modern schools, but not in my schooldays and not at Hogwarts, where it seems to be standard procedure for when a student brings a familiar to class. The only other occasion we hear of a familiar in class is when Flitwick whizzes Trevor around the room to demonstrate Summoning charms.
"Harry is right. Snape has no business to put Neville down publicy."
Harry is wrong. Firstly, Hogwarts doesn't follow modern pedagogic rules about protecting students' self-esteem, and public or private sarcasm to students, whether coming from teacher or other student/s, is not seen as a problem there. Secondly, you're assuming that it's a gratuitous insult, but Snape might think it's a warning that's relevant for class safety.
"And how is Snape supposed to know how Neville's abilities are in the other subjects?"
Teachers talk to each other about their classes and this is already Neville's third year at Hogwarts. Why wouldn't he know?
duj
Re: insults, pt 2
First of all, while Hogwarts rules are different from the rules in Muggle school that doesn't mean that they are automatically identical with unmodern??? rules. You assume that sarcasm and putting down the students is a normal thing, but that's not the way the other teachers teach. McGonnagal is the only one who uses sometimes mild sarkasm (Harry never seems to be bothered by it) and she flies of the handle from time to time when confronted with unusual situation, but that's it. And Flitwick as a trained wizzard whizzing around a pet a little bit is hardly the same thing as telling a pupil to either make a perfect poison or risk to kill his own pet.
Second: Quirrel never made any practical work with his students. Lockhard was utterly incompetent. So no, Snape can't know how good or bad Neville is in Dada. He can assume based on his ability in charms (since those two subjects seems to overlap), but charms is one of Nevilles better subjects (he got an E on his OWLs).
Third: You skipped the example in GoF, when a Slyterin and a Gryffindor get hit by stray hexes. The Slytherin get send to the school nurse immediatly. Hermione gets insulted. Clear sign of favourism.
And, btw, Neville isn't even the worst in potions, despite the fact that he is regulary melting his cauldron. Because he gets his owl. Crabbe (or Goyle? I tend to confuse them) didn't and had to learn to redo his potions owl.
Re: insults, pt 2
Both Minerva and Filius use sarcastic insults towards students. Minerva insults Neville multiple times - even when he did nothing wrong (in POA - he left the passwords *inside* Gryffindor tower - ie where whoever had access to them didn't need them to get in; if Minerva had been thinking she would have realized this meant Sirius had help from inside Gryffindor tower).
He can assume based on his ability in charms (since those two subjects seems to overlap), but charms is one of Nevilles better subjects (he got an E on his OWLs).
One of Neville's problems in DADA all the way to the middle of 5th year was bad aim (eg in the first DA practice he disarms the wrong person). Since wandwork is what Charms is about there is no reason to think he was good at Charms in his early years. Neville is a powerful wizard, but he had no control over his magic in his first 3 years at school - he accidentally vanishes a chair-leg in COS, but he can't do intentional Vanishing in OOTP. At some point he buckled down and got his act together. There are plenty of theories how that happened, but we don't know enough details because Harry can ignore Neville for months on end.
Third: You skipped the example in GoF, when a Slyterin and a Gryffindor get hit by stray hexes. The Slytherin get send to the school nurse immediatly. Hermione gets insulted. Clear sign of favourism.
It isn't clear if Severus intended to insult Hermione (though if he didn't he did nothing to correct the impression that he did). But if he did intend the insult it wasn't because she was a Gryffindor but because of how over the years she had twice attacked Severus and once stolen from him - and did nothing to remedy either situation. Or even apologize. Not an excuse but a reason.
And, btw, Neville isn't even the worst in potions, despite the fact that he is regulary melting his cauldron. Because he gets his owl. Crabbe (or Goyle? I tend to confuse them) didn't and had to learn to redo his potions owl.
You are confused. We do not know if Neville got an OWL in Potions or not (though I like to think that he did). A student is not required to retake a subject in which he failed the OWL exam - Harry does not retake Divination or history - so not retaking a subject is no evidence of passing. It can simply mean the student gave up on obtaining that particular OWL. As for Vincent and Greg - it is DADA which they both repeat. We have no idea if they passed Potions or not either.
BTW - you may post anonymously, but you are supposed to sign your posts. It doesn't feel nice to discuss with a ghost.
not quite
We don't see most of the other teachers in action. It's probably fair to say that that's not the way Sprout or Lupin teaches, or Slughorn, but McGonagall is more than mildly sarcastic, especially to Neville, and in the very little we see of Flitwick, he is also sarcastic.
But not to Harry and Harry tends not to notice much about other people. (In OotP for example, he clearly doesn't even know all of his yearmates after five years of shared classes - and it's not a large school - and he's never wondered why Neville lives with a grandmother instead of parents. It isn't that he's assumed Neville's parents are dead, but that he's never even thought about it.) I find it rather striking that McGonagall's and Flitwick's sarcasmto not-Harrys is strong enough for him to notice it at all.
"McGonnagal is the only one who uses sometimes mild sarkasm (Harry never seems to be bothered by it)"
Because it's not to *him*. (Neville's problems tend to register only when Harry can find a Slytherin to blame them on.)
"And Flitwick as a trained wizzard whizzing around a pet a little bit is hardly the same thing as telling a pupil to either make a perfect poison or risk to kill his own pet."
1) I wonder whether the pet thought so. Or whether Neville did. Whizzing through the air is something a toad would normally only experience as it was carried off by a hungry bird - and Neville's whizzing through the air experiences haven't been great either (except for that time he "bounced" and proved he was no Squib.)
2) Snape didn't tell Neville to make a *poison*. Shrinking solution is not poisonous. Also Snape didn't mention the possibility of the potion harming Trevor until he was about to administer it.
"Quirrel never made any practical work with his students. Lockhard was utterly incompetent. So no, Snape can't know how good or bad Neville is in Dada."
What we see is that Neville struggles in every subject we're told about in the early years, except Herbology. His legacy-wand might be partly to blame, but it's also his lack of focus and poor self-confidence.
In fifth year, the Azkaban escape finally prompts him to work at overcoming his difficulties in DADA, and we're explicitly told that he improves by leaps and bounds over the course of the year.
"charms is one of Nevilles better subjects (he got an E on his OWLs)"
It's one of his better subjects in the *OWLs*, but you can't extrapolate that back to the early years because canon explicitly tells that he made huge improvements in his wandwork in fifth year.
"You skipped the example in GoF, when a Slyterin and a Gryffindor get hit by stray hexes. The Slytherin get send to the school nurse immediatly. Hermione gets insulted. Clear sign of favourism."
You assume it's an insult, and that's how the students take it, but in the context of having just then sent Goyle to the Hospital Wing, it's possible he meant that she should go too, ie that he sees no difference between her situation and Goyle's.
If he does intend different treatment that would probably be because Hermione has repeatedly attacked him physically with never an apology or a punishment. Goyle, OTOH, is a plodding but not disruptive student.
"btw, Neville isn't even the worst in potions, despite the fact that he is regulary melting his cauldron. Because he gets his owl. Crabbe (or Goyle? I tend to confuse them) didn't and had to learn to redo his potions owl."
Er, no. We don't know whether any of the three in question got a Potions OWL.
duj
Re: not quite
We do, because Snape reminds Draco of the fact that either Crabbe or Goyle needs to retake the owl in HBP. And while we don't know what mark Neville got in the end, Harry noticed that he did better than usual during the practical test.
There is no mention of Neville being bad in charms - but really, if he were, you simply don't "warn" a teacher about a student in front of said students and all of his class mates, for no reason at all.
And it doesn't matter what Hermione has done in the past - yes, she has attacked him (although the one occasion Snape (perhaps) knows about she did it in order to rescue an innocent man from the dementors), but none of these attacks were personal. In general, she is a good and dedicated student. But even if she weren't, he is the teacher, she is his resposibility and she just got cursed.
But I see, this will go nowhere. Because this isn't about analyzing the books. This is about "deleting" Snape's more negative character traits. Guess what, those character traits are what makes him interesting. He isn't a poor innocent Woobie. He is often a downright bastard.
As a teacher, he just is a big bully. He bullies Harry in the very first lesson, in seven books we witness not one instance in which he punishes or berates a Slytherin, but countless in which he is does it to the Gryffindors (not just Harry and Neville, although they are his favourite targets). He terrorizes one of his students, and after it is revealed that he is the greatest fear of said student, he terrorizes him even more. There isn't a single instance in the book in which he treats the Gryffindors decent in class. And a lot of instances in which the Slytherins are misbehaving - and don't tell me that they are just sneakier. That's BS. Nobody is that sneaky that he never gets caught. Plus, the Gryffindors are not that stupid, and especially Harry can be very sneaky. If they had a chance to get away with retailiating behind Snape's back, they would do it.
And yes, McGonagal can be sarcastic too, and goes to far at some instances, but that's always in situations in which she is very frazzled, and she never targets a student (or a group of students) specifically. Snape does it in everyday situations, and has his favourite victims.
Re: not quite - part 1
We do, because Snape reminds Draco of the fact that either Crabbe or Goyle needs to retake the owl in HBP.
Wrong. Read the book. Or read my previous response to this point, a few posts above. It was the DADA OWL they both failed.
There is no mention of Neville being bad in charms
Well, Neville has trouble with memory and with coordination. Charms requires both, so I don't see how he could do well in the subject in his early years. Until he finally realized he had to do something about it.
but really, if he were, you simply don't "warn" a teacher about a student in front of said students and all of his class mates, for no reason at all.
Maybe not in a modern school, but Hogwarts teachers have no problem insulting students in public - see Minerva, multiple times. And why do you think it is 'for no reason at all'? This is magic school, kids do dangerous things to each other. Neville was a walking ticking bomb because he couldn't or wouldn't control his magic, for several years.
And it doesn't matter what Hermione has done in the past - yes, she has attacked him (although the one occasion Snape (perhaps) knows about she did it in order to rescue an innocent man from the dementors)
BS! Severus certainly knows about all three attacks. You think he was of so mystified that Hermione showed up in the hospital wing in her part-cat form and stayed there for weeks, and the same night Vincent and Greg found themselves in a closet with their shoes outside it? How hard is it to put 2 and 2 together?
As for the Shrieking Shack, perhaps if Miss Granger used her brains she is so proud of she should have realized Severus was there to save her and her friends from someone he believed to be a mass murderer and an unsafe werewolf. But no, the three of them attacked him, and then when he got concussed nobody stopped Sirius from banging his head repeatedly against the walls of the tunnel. And none of them thought to apologize afterwards. Of course he is embittered towards the three of them. Not that it stops him from protecting them when he thinks they (or anyone else) needs it.
but none of these attacks were personal.
He still deserves an apology. Which he never got.
In general, she is a good and dedicated student.
She is a suck-up. With bad learning habits. Not that it matters. Her relevant problem is that she never learned right from wrong, all she ever learned is how to avoid trouble.
But even if she weren't, he is the teacher, she is his resposibility and she just got cursed.
So? She is a big kid. He saw no difference between her and Greg. They both went to the hospital wing.
But I see, this will go nowhere. Because this isn't about analyzing the books. This is about "deleting" Snape's more negative character traits. Guess what, those character traits are what makes him interesting. He isn't a poor innocent Woobie. He is often a downright bastard.
No, those behaviors shows what a caring person he is. He does not let students off easily. He demands that they do their work and do it right. That they come prepared to class. That they don't endanger themselves and their classmates. But he does not care about their of-so-delicate feelings. Because compared to the real dangers in their world feelings are not a priority. I don't see what being a woobie has anything to do with it - he is a pretty good teacher and one of the best Hogwarts has to offer. Right now I wish he taught at my daughter's school.
He bullies Harry in the very first lesson
We disagree that he does.
in seven books we witness not one instance in which he punishes or berates a Slytherin
We don't see him with Slytherins when Gryffindors are not around. We do see the Slytherins making an effort not to be caught by him. So presumably if they had been caught something unpleasant would have awaited them.
but countless in which he is does it to the Gryffindors
Each and every one of their punishments is well deserved. They behave terribly, right in front of him, openly.
Re: not quite - part 2
We have Harry's opinion that Severus bullied Neville worse than ever, no examples.
There isn't a single instance in the book in which he treats the Gryffindors decent in class.
Not true. He is incredibly patient with Dean and Parvati in the DADA lesson when they ask off-topic questions in class.
And a lot of instances in which the Slytherins are misbehaving - and don't tell me that they are just sneakier. That's BS. Nobody is that sneaky that he never gets caught. Plus, the Gryffindors are not that stupid, and especially Harry can be very sneaky. If they had a chance to get away with retailiating behind Snape's back, they would do it.
And indeed, Harry gets away with tossing a firecracker into Greg's cauldron. You think Severus saw that and let him off? Harry is such a hypocrite - he whines internally about Slytherins tossing ingredients, and then in the same lesson tosses that firecracker. Both got away - because both managed to do it when Severus' back was turned. But Harry's offense was worse.
And yes, McGonagal can be sarcastic too, and goes to far at some instances, but that's always in situations in which she is very frazzled, and she never targets a student (or a group of students) specifically.
Did you read the books at all? She insults Neville out of the blue in front of the school in GOF chapter 15 (when she tells him not to show the Durmstrang students he can't do a switching charm) - what was the point of that supposed to be? As for being frazzled, don't you think Severus would be 'frazzled' in every single class when he is teaching students to work with explosive, corrosive and otherwise dangerous materials and they can't be bothered to follow directions?
When Minerva catches a student doing something dangerous - she blows her top, and then endangers the student even worse (eg PS - punishes students for being out of bed in the castle with going at night to the forest; and POA when she forbade Neville to enter the common room). Severus merely insults, takes points or at worst, gives a disgusting task for detention. I pick him over her any day.
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