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The May Challenge

The World of Severus Snape

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The May Challenge

[info]sylvanawood
5/11/10 09:45 am
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The Challenge in May:

Severus and Ambition!


This challenge was suggested by [info]00sevvie

Slytherin is supposed to be the House of ambition, right? So what were Severus' ambitions throughout his life - not just during the war years, but his personal ambitions as well. Ambitions he might have had to lay aside after the debacle with the prophecy. Why was he Sorted to the House of ambition?

Have fun!
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  • (Anonymous)
    5/12/10 07:42 am (UTC)
    think that one of the saddest lines in the books is the description of small Severus in 'The Prince's Tale' : 'brimful of confidence in his own destiny'. He is a bright boy with a special talent from a neglectful home in a slum. The talent that he has gives him an out from where he lives, and the opportunity to develop his skill and make something of himself. That's why I think he sorts to the House of ambition. I believe it's Whitehound who has pointed out that Slytherin is likely to get more than its share of misfits, children who come from deprived backgrounds, etc because they are the ones with something to prove.

    Maidofkent (I don't seem able to post if I log in a livejournal user)

    • [info]mary_j_59
      5/13/10 04:07 am (UTC)
      That's very well put, and makes a lot of sense. The greatest ambition I sensed in Severus was the ambition to belong somewhere, and to have true friends. Interesting that those very words - "true friends" - are sung about Slytherin, and no other house.

      I'm sure young Severus had other ambitions, as well. As you say, he surely wanted to prove himself. But why is that bad? Ambition strikes me as morally neutral, like courage.

      (BTW, I'm also a livejournal user, and I'm trying to think how to describe the convoluted process of actually posting here. It's far from transparent. On the other hand, I am able to comment with no problems. Maybe you have to join the comm as a livejournal user? (unsure).)

    • about signing in-

      [info]mary_j_59
      5/13/10 02:40 pm (UTC)
      Unfortunately, I think I may have signed up for insanejournal as well. I always log in as a livejournal user, however. But maybe insanejournal doesn't log you in properly unless you also have an insanejournal username?

      I don't know - I really don't understand it.

      • Re: about signing in and ambition

        [info]maidofkent.livejournal.com
        5/13/10 05:46 pm (UTC)
        Maryj thank you for helping - I've now read the FAQ section and worked it out - it always helps to read the instructions.

        I agree completely with ambition not being necessarily a bad thing. There's a long running Uk radio programme in which people who achieved something worthwhile choose music and talk about their lives. It's interesting how many of them (scientist in particular for some reason) come from very poor backgrounds and have gone on to eg. make significant contributions to cancer research etc. I think it's a shame that the Potterverse seems to view ambition as a purely negative thing.

        I don't know if the desire for friendship is an ambition as such, but I do think Severus wants to be recognised for his achievements. It's sad that that wish ends up as 'Look at me'.

    • (Anonymous)
      5/13/10 08:32 pm (UTC)
      I feel Sev was particularly hoping for Slytherin 'specifically' because he saw it as a way out of poverty. He doesn't think of it as the House of Ambition - but as the House for people who USE their Brains. Apparently his view of Ravenclaw was that it was for the Ivory Tower intellectuals - the ones who didn't care if their studies led them anywhere.

      And I think this shows Eileen's influence. She was apparently at school while Tom was the Head Boy. A talented kid from an orphanage, whom Slughorn was ready to help place at the Ministry - a pretty good start for a kid without a family. I bet she told Sev that Sluggy was a good man to have as your Head of House - that he liked helping talented kids succeed. Hence the reason Sev believed Lily would sort into Slytherin. She had loads of talent pre-Hogwarts. More control than Sev did. -- Hwyla

  • [info]phantomtf
    5/15/10 09:22 pm (UTC)
    Though we don't really get to see Snape's specific ambitions, they will likely tie in with his talents. His main goals were to gain recognition, admiration and power, and escape from his home life. I imagine he was sorted into Slytherin due to his drive to make his dreams a reality. I can see him inventing potions or spells for a well-known company or for the Ministry.

    We can see how his hopes are quickly dashed when arriving at school. Instead of being admired for his brains and talents, he is scorned and bullied, and almost killed. I seriously wonder if Snape was ever part of the Slug Club. We know that Slughorn admired cleverness and harps endlessly about Lily, but surely Snape was at least as talented, though less gifted in the social graces. Dumbledore turns a twinkling eye to the entire situation.

    Since Snape couldn't get what he wanted through conventional means at Hogwarts, he turned to the Dark Arts and the Death Eaters. He likely found the admiration and power he wanted there. However, when his conscience caused him to turn traitor, he had to turn his back on ambition. Small wonder he was bitter and petty toward the students - his prodigious talents were wasted teaching snot-nosed brats how to boil water. He could always experiment on the side, but he was never truly free to develop his talents. While at Hogwarts, his true labor of double-agent went on in near-obscurity.

    The final year had to sting immensely, being hated for his actions while all the while he was working for a greater good. IMHO, he died without ever realizing his goals. However, perhaps in life he will gain the fame and admiration that he never received in life.

    • [info]oryx_leucoryx
      5/17/10 09:06 pm (UTC)
      I object to the connection between 'Dark Arts' and 'Death Eaters'. The Dark Arts are not by necessity wrong or evil. Some spells are more often put to bad use than good, but the same goes for some non-Dark spells. Some Dark Arts practices are wrong, some are merely yucky, some neutral or possibly even good. (I wouldn't be surprised if in past generations protections such as the one Dumbledore claims to have placed on Petunia's home for Harry would have been classified as Dark Arts. And Xenophilus says the Hallows aren't Dark in the crude sense, implying that in some non-crude sense they were. Including that innocent looking invisibility cloak.) The study of the Dark Arts is essential for legitimate careers such as being an Auror or a curse breaker, as well as the more sophisticated forms of healing. Also, the routine study of the Dark Arts did not prevent people like Viktor's grandfather from opposing Grindelwald. It's just that in 20th century Wizarding Britain there is a lot of hypocrisy surrounding Dark Arts. This hypocrisy resulted in banning the study of Dark Arts as an organic discipline while introducing some Dark Arts knowledge under other names in DADA class as well as leaving some available in the Restricted Section. It is this hypocrisy that created a situation where the more obvious place to study the Dark Arts was by seeking the mentorship of the Dark Lord of the generation.

      • [info]fayzbub
        5/17/10 10:27 pm (UTC)
        That's a very good point. I wonder whether that was Snape's function within the Death Eaters: as healer? It would make sense that not all raids were successful, and some DEs must have been hurt. In such a case, a talented healer on Voldemort's team who could be trusted to keep his mouth shut would be invaluable. And the same applied later to when Severus swapped sides. He saved Dumbledore's life after the ring Horcrux tried to kill him, after all.

        There's always such a lot of speculation about what Severus actually *did* within the Death Eaters that could have raised him to such an (apparently) eminent position, considering that most DEs didn't ever get to Voldemort's inner circle. But if he was a good healer, that would certainly be a position of some prestige.

        The fact that Severus also was able to, not cure, but slow, the progression of Dumbledore's gangrenous state after the ring's attack, and it seems he knew more about how to treat Dark Art curses than most. His experimentation with all things potion and Dark Arts would also be an expression of that interest in healing.

        Alison

      • [info]phantomtf
        5/18/10 01:31 am (UTC)
        Quite true - my comment was badly phrased. The Death Eaters practice Dark Magic, but they don't necessarily go hand-in-hand. Dark Arts can be used for good the way venom can be used to make antivenin. Snape practiced Dark Magic before he ever became a Death Eater. It gave him a sort of power (and a measure of protection) but also caused him to be ostracized.

        I also forgot to mention that after finding out the meaning of the prophesy, Snape also gained another ambition: to defeat Voldemort and find absolution, if not necessarily forgiveness. This went counter to his original ambitions of fame and power, which haven't died - time and again we seen an insecure Severus demanding respect and acknowledgment.

        • [info]phantomtf
          5/18/10 01:33 am (UTC)
          Okay, I fail, absolution and forgiveness are pretty much the same things. Snape wants to make reparations, even if he can't quite achieve forgiveness, because he can never forgive himself.
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