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I'm still working on my long-threatened essays on Snape, house points and Hogwarts discipline, but
**Edited to add that Snape actually took 12 points total from Gryffindor. He took 5 from Potter for having a library book out of the school buildings. (Chapter 11) Thank you, Beth, for the correction! I do think that does not change the ultimate conclusion. **
In Sorcerer's Stone, Severus Snape takes a grand total of 7 points from Gryffindor. That's right...7 points. 1 from Harry Potter for cheek when Harry tells him to ask Hermione his questions, and 1 from Harry for not helping Neville. He takes 5 points from Ron Weasley for fighting when Ron physically attacks Draco (chapter 12). We never see Severus award points to anyone, Gryffindor, Slytherin or any other student. Some horribly biased teacher, huh?
Compare that to McGonagall. Hermione talks about "all the points" she got from McGonagall for knowing about Switching Spells in chapter 9. McGonagall rewards Potter for breaking the rules on flying by making him seeker, buying an extremely expensive broom, and getting all misty-eyed over James Potter. (Chapter 9). McGonagall takes 5 points away from Granger over the troll, and awards 5 points to each Ron and Potter for defying the instructions to go to their common room and taking on the troll.
In chapter 14, McGonagall gives Draco a detention and takes 20 points from Slytherin for being out after hours. In chapter 15, on the same night, McGonagall starts by giving a detention and a total of 50 points from Gryffindor for Harry, Ron, Hermione and Neville doing the same (which breaks down to 12.5 points apiece). When Harry complains about it, McGonagall loses her temper and says that is 50 points apiece, but then the next day, Gryffindor has lost only 150 points.
Then, of course, Dumbledore gives Gryffindor 170 points at the last minute for breaking the rules and rubs the Slytherins' noses in it.
Exactly who is biased, again?
Compare that to McGonagall. Hermione talks about "all the points" she got from McGonagall for knowing about Switching Spells in chapter 9. McGonagall rewards Potter for breaking the rules on flying by making him seeker, buying an extremely expensive broom, and getting all misty-eyed over James Potter. (Chapter 9). McGonagall takes 5 points away from Granger over the troll, and awards 5 points to each Ron and Potter for defying the instructions to go to their common room and taking on the troll.
In chapter 14, McGonagall gives Draco a detention and takes 20 points from Slytherin for being out after hours. In chapter 15, on the same night, McGonagall starts by giving a detention and a total of 50 points from Gryffindor for Harry, Ron, Hermione and Neville doing the same (which breaks down to 12.5 points apiece). When Harry complains about it, McGonagall loses her temper and says that is 50 points apiece, but then the next day, Gryffindor has lost only 150 points.
Then, of course, Dumbledore gives Gryffindor 170 points at the last minute for breaking the rules and rubs the Slytherins' noses in it.
Exactly who is biased, again?
**Edited to add that Snape actually took 12 points total from Gryffindor. He took 5 from Potter for having a library book out of the school buildings. (Chapter 11) Thank you, Beth, for the correction! I do think that does not change the ultimate conclusion. **
What we can safely conclude from canon is that several teachers, of various Houses, gave points for correct answers in class or for good performance - McGonagall in PS to Hermione for knowing what Switching Spells were, Slughorn in HBP gives Hermione 20 points in one lesson for correctly identifying 3 potions and Sprout gives her 20 points in COS for answering 2 questions. I can't remember where, but I think Flitwick does so too at some point, and of course the top is Remus, giving each Gryffindor student 5 points, whether for fighting the boggart or for answering questions (that's 40 or 50 points in one lesson, depending on whether one blieves in the 2 mystery Gryffindor girls or not). OTOH we never see Trelawney or Hagrid give points for anything like that (or for anything at all, IIRC), so Severus not doing so isn't unheard of. I can understand why he doesn't - he probably does not believe students should receive prizes for doing what is expected of them.
We also know that points are earned for success at Quidditch - in PS Oliver Wood tells Harry he canot resign from the team after losing those House points because winning at Quidditch is a way to gain them back. In POA the Quidditch success was the main factor that allowed Gryffindor to win the House cup. Does it say anywhere how many points are earned per match? Does the score translate directly to House points or what? The first game's final score was 170 to 60, in the second Harry caught the snitch very early so perhaps 150 to 0? So Gryffindor may have earned some 320 points just from Quidditch? (What does that tell students about what a school values? Catching a snitch equals 15-30 correct answers in class.)
So in PS Gryffindor's balance: X points for academics -Y taken off by Severus +320 for Quidditch -150 by McGonagall +170 by Dumbledore =482
Or: X -Y +340 =482
Ergo: X-Y=142
If there were about 38 weeks in the academic year (2 weeks off for each of the term breaks and another 10 weeks off for summer), then each week Gryffindor earned on average 3.7 points more than they lost. For a change Rowling's math appears to work, more or less.
Also, it appears that the strategy for Harry, if his goal is to win the House cup for Gryffindor for the least effort, is to catch snitches, pay attention in Severus' class, be respectful to Severus and stay out of major trouble out of class. Unfortunately he never got past the first item on this list.
I can't remember why Harry missed a game in first year - my mind must be going.
Anyways - I've said for a long time that book1 showed a heavy leniency towards Harry. If you read Draco's lines very carefully he doesn't even talk about muggleborns in a particularly bad way UNTIL Hermione accusses him of buying his way onto the Quidditch team. He does talk about how they will be behind and not know things, but he doesn't say they are less capable - just not up-to-speed merely because they were raised in a different environment. -- Hwyla
As the Quidditch team discusses in POA placement depends not only on number of victories but also on score difference - in POA Harry had to wait for the score difference to be beyond a certain number before catching the snitch in the G/S game, winning at a lesser difference wouldn't have won them the cup.
Since there are 6 games a year the possibilities are - top team winning 3 games, next one wins 2, the third wins one and last doesn't win; or top team wins 3 games, the other three teams win one game each; or two top teams win 2 games each and the cup goes to the one who wins by a larger margin overall (ie a victory of 170 vs 60 is better than a victory of 170 vs 100), the other two teams win a game each; or the top three teams win two games each and the cup goes to the team winning with the highest overall margin, the last team wins none.
In the first year we know Slytherin scored 60 when it lost to Gryffindor. If they won their other 2 games they scored at leat 150 points in each of those, hence the 360 minimum.
I think the only time Draco talks about Muggle-borns in PS is when he meets Harry at Madam Malkins' store? Yes, he says their background is different, he also says he doesn't think anyone but those from the *old* wizardingfamilies should be allowed at Hogwarts. Probably half of Slytherin House should be banned, I suppose?
Seriously, though, we just don't know enough about what the other teachers were doing, and what these teachers were doing with other years to draw firm conclusions on points. The conclusion I have reached (and I'm still working on the big post on it) is that McGonagall and Dumbledore strictly ignore the description of the points system she gives the students in the beginning. Instead, they use points to indoctrinate the Gryffindors as to what is important, namely: nerve, pluck, daring and disregard for the rules that apply to "lesser mortals". Similarly, what Snape really goes after are Gryffindors who disregard other students. So, for example, we see him take points from Harry for disrupting a PoA class, Hermione for letting Neville take the easy way out instead of learning on his own, etc. In comparison, we do *not* see him take points (or give a detention) to Harry in PoA when Harry repeatedly shouts "Shut up" at him. I've really got to get that done...
Year 1, part 1
On the first day Ron and Harry attempt (by mistake, they were lost) to enter the third floor corridor, Filch catches them, threatens to lock them up in the dungeon, but they are rescued by Quirrell who was 'passing' (as if!) Would Filch have done as he threatened? And if so, how long until they got rescued? This remains unknown.
First Potions lesson: Harry loses one point for cheek. Note that no points are lost for not knowing answers to the questions - perhaps Snape did not expect him to know, he may have been putting on this scene to make the point he expected students to prepare for future lessons. Which would be the reason he did not let Hermione answer - he did not want students to get the wrong impression that in his class they could coast on someone else's knowledge. OTOH Snape ignores the fact that Draco and his friends were laughing at Harry's ignorance and embarrassment.
When they get to work Snape criticizes everyone but Draco - perhaps he did the work correctly? Note that this implies the other Slytherins were criticized. When Neville's cauldron boils over Snape takes a point from Harry (who had been working nearby) for not warning Neville of the dangerous step (adding the porcupine quills while the cauldron was still over the flame).
Before the first flying lesson: Draco snatches Neville's Remembrall. Harry and Ron step up (with the intent of fighting Draco), McGonagall notices the disturbance and Draco returns the Remembrall - nobody is punished.
Flying lesson: Draco takes the Remembrall again and flies off with it. Harry flies after him attempting to knock Draco off his broom. Eventually Draco threw the Remembrall and Harry caught it in a dangerous dive. McGonagall definitely saw the entire dive. Should she have figured out that there must have been another student in the air as well? In any case, despite prior warning by Madam Hooch, not only does Harry not get punished for blatantly ignoring basic personal safety, but he is rewarded with an invitation to the Quidditch team and a top of the line broomstick (despite the fact that he could have probably afforded it himself, all he really needed was recommendations). Later, when the broomstick arrives Draco attempts to get Harry in trouble over it, thinking he got one sent to him illegally, but Flitwick mentions the 'special circumstances'. This looks like McGonagall wasn't alone among the staff in looking forward to an end of Slytherin hegemony of the Quidditch and House Cups.
Midnight duel: Harry, Ron, Hermione and Neville break curfew. Harry and Ron because they are goaded into it by Draco, Hermione because she attempts to stop them and Neville because he forgot the password. They stumbled upon Fluffy, nearly got caught by Filch but made it back to the common room without being identified. Since nobody in authority knew the specifics nobody was punished. (Later on Hagrid discovers the kids know about Fluffy. Did he pass on to Dumbledore that the kids appear to be meddling, and must have been where they were not supposed to?)
Charms lesson: There is mention that in a previous lesson Flitwick made Trevor zoom around the classroom. Yet apparently Neville did not learn not to bring his pet to class...
Troll incident: Hermione lost 5 points, for supposedly trying to tackle the troll herself (didn't McGonagall realize she had been crying in the bathroom?), Harry and Ron earn 5 points each for successfully fighting it, despite their meager training at that point.
Snape and the trio in the courtyard: The trio acts suspiciously, Snape confiscates 'Quidditch Through the Ages', claiming a library book shouldn't be taken outside and takes 5 points off Harry (not mentioned in the OP). Harry believes Snape just made the rule up. Do we have canon support for one or the other? Was Snape just looking for an excuse to take points because he believed the kids' actions showed they were feeling guilty over something? Or did they in fact break a rule? (And how about portable fires - are they legal for students, or does this fall into the 'no magic in the corridors' category?)
Year 1, part 2
Before Christmas: Draco insulted Ron, who attempted to react physically. Snape took 5 points off Ron for fighting.
Christmans break: Harry attempts to search for information on Nicolas Flamel in the Restricted Section after hours, while using his invisibility cloak (given to him by Dumbledore). Filch and Snape are aware someone was around but they fail to catch him. For three nights Harry is out of bed, looking at the Mirror of Erised. Dumbledore knows this, explains how the mirror works and encourages Harry to stop seeking it. Harry isn't punished for repeated breaking of curfew.
Draco uses a Leg-Locker Curse on Neville. Hermione releases Neville, nobody brings the incident to authorities, so presumably Draco isn't punished.
Gryffindor-Hufflepuff Quidditch match: After much taunting by Draco, Ron and Neville attack Draco, Crabbe and Goyle. No teacher notices, nobody is punished.
After the match Harry flies to the Forbidden Forest in order to listen into the conversation between Snape and Quirrell. He isn't caught.
Norbert: Draco, Neville, Harry and Hermione are caught after hours by McGonagall. She believed that they had goaded Draco to break curfew. Before catching Harry and Hermione she punished Draco with 20 points and detention - because she believed he was lying (as well as breaking curfew). Then she takes 50 points, which become 150 from the 3 Gryffindors and gives detention to the 3 of them. If 20 points are her standard for being out at night at such dangerous times then she should have started with 60 from Gryffindor. Then, supposedly for behaving unsafely and taking unacceptable risks she assigns the four of them a detention with Hagrid in the Forbidden Forest - where a unicorn killer is roaming.
Going after the Stone: The trio body-bind Neville and break curfew on the way to the Stone. Since Dumbledore knew Neville attempted to stop the trio he must have known how Hermione overcame him, yet she was never punished for that. Eventually Dumbledore gave the 4 of them a total of 170 points. Considering the fact that rather than save the Stone Harry actually made it more vulnerable to Quirrellmort (he couldn't get it from the mirror, but he could have summoned it from Harry's pocket) I don't think anyone but Neville deserved their points. Also, Dumbledore must have been aware of Harry's repeated nocturnal wanderings but rather than punishing him he encourages Harry by giving him the cloak and returning it to him after the Norbert story.
To summarize year 1:
Snape wants his students to come prepared to class and work safely - including being alert to dangers to the class from unsafe work by peers. He wants students to obey rules. Most of all he wants them to be safe. I think he suspected Harry had been out after curfew on other occasions besides the one in which he was caught.
McGonagall claims to be concerned with student safety but she encourages recklessness for the sake of one's friends (especially if it helps Gryffindor beat Slytherin at Quidditch), even if all the friend stood to lose was personal property. OTOH recklessness for its own sake as with Hermione and the troll is slightly discouraged (only 5 points?) McGonagall's dealing with the Norbert situation defies any logic. Was she trying to discourage the kids from dangerous behavior or was she saying 'you want danger and risk? Here's danger for you!'? I can't imagine Snape sending students on such a detention.
Dumbledore uses the point system as one more way in which he encourages Harry to throw himself into danger in general and the Voldemort situation in particular, as well as to take a dig at the Slytherins (and especially Snape). He constantly turns a blind eye to Harry's rule-breaking because that is all part of Harry's training. At least he does not 'save' Harry when he is caught by someone else.
Year 2
- Theft
- Misuse of a Muggle artifact (outside of Arthur's loophole)
- Breach of the Statute of Secrecy (they were seen by several Muggles who reported to the Muggle media)
- Late arrival, in Muggle clothes
- Damage to the Whomping Willow
For this they receive a dressing down from Snape (who suggests he would have expelled them - if he had the authority to do so); a suspended sentence of expulsion from Dumbledore and a single detention each; more harsh words from McGonagall - who was about to take off points, but was happy with Harry's suggested loophole - that the offence took place before term started.
Herbology class: Hermione earns a total of 20 points for 2 correct answers.
DADA class: Hermione earns 10 points for full points on Lockhart's quiz about himself.
Quidditch field quarrel: Hermione accuses Draco of buying his way into the team. Draco calls her Mudblood, Ron attempts to curse Draco but is hit by a backfired slug-belching spell. No adult present.
Before Halloween: Harry is taken to Filch's office for dripping mud in the castle, he isn't punished because of a distraction created when Peeves broke the Vanishing Cabinet.
Halloween: Trio members are found where Mrs Norris was petrified. Filch accuses Harry, Snape points to the suspicious circumstances of the kids' being there and recommends suspending Harry from Quidditch, McGonagall and Dumbledore disagree for lack of evidence. (Suggestion of Legilimency of Harry by Dumbledore.)
Draco calls 'You'll be next, Mudbloods!' in front of a large audience - with no overt disciplinary action.
Filch attempts to put students in detention for 'breathing loudly' and 'looking happy'.
History of Magic class: The discussion about the Chamber of Secrets starts with Hermione waiting for permission to speak, but eventually the class gets out of hand with many students speaking out of turn. Binns gets back on topic, does not take any points.
Percy takes 5 points off Ron for embarrassing him by being in a girls' bathroom.
(Was there any investigation by staff regarding the Rogue Bludger? A student was endangered, after all.)
Polyjuice Potion: The brewing of the potion itself without permission or supervision is presented as illegal - whether because of the potion's potential use for fraud, because of their young age and lack of training, potential accidents or other reasons. The potion required restricted ingredients which Hermione stole. To enable the theft Harry created a diversion by throwing a firecracker into Goyle's cauldron, thus creating an explosion involving volatile components, with assorted added risk from splashing a potion on students.
The use of the potion involved the drugging of Crabbe and Goyle, having Ron and Harry assume their identities and enter the Slytherin common room by stealth.
While neither of them was formally caught in the act I believe Snape strongly suspected that it was Harry who tossed the firecracker - whether from Harry's face or from Legilimency (which is hinted at). Moreover, between the missing ingredients and Hermione's cat transformation he should have been able to put 2 and 2 together. Yet we see no open disciplinary act by him.
Also, what did Draco think when Crabbe and Goyle showed up with a story about waking up in a broom closet without their shoes when he had just talked to 'Crabbe and Goyle'? Did he tell Snape? Or did he just decide to be on the alert regarding the trio from then on?
(When the student duels go out of hand in the dueling club Snape restores order, nobody is punished, no points are taken.)
Draco snatches Tom's diary out of things that spilled from Harry's bag. Percy demands that he hand it back, Harry retrieves it with Expelliarmus, Percy says he'll report Harry for magic in corridors.
Harry and Ron break curfew to get to Hagrid's hut after Hermione was petrified, and again later on, when they follow the spiders.
Potions class: Draco sucks up to Snape, who does not notice Seamus mimicking vomitting into his cauldron. Snape also ignores Draco saying 'Mudbloods', Ron threatening to attack Draco (though Ron was restrained by Harry and Dean).
Year 2, end and summary
I am pretty certain Snape could have nailed Harry for the firecracker and Hermione for Polyjuice, at the very least. I suppose he saw Hermione's transformation as sufficient punishment. As for Harry, I tend to think Snape did *not* want to place Dumbledore in a situation where he would be forced to carry out Harry's suspended expulsion. So instead Snape acts in a menacing way, to warn Harry that Snape is on to him.
Note that Snape either does not notice or ignores disrespectful behavior and an attempt at violence that is controlled by the students.
Also, note how easily McGonagall accepts a way out of taking points from Harry and Ron over the car offence. Strict but fair? Maybe in Harry's mind.
Draco gets away with using the word 'Mudblood' in public, including in front of staff. Dumbledore's complaint in HBP came a tad late.
If Snape were truly so biased against Slytherins, why don't we ever see him giving them points?
What we also don't see, of course, is Snape deducting points from Slytherin. But we can tell that Slytherins try to hide their bad behavior from Snape when Draco flashes his Potter Stinks (was that the slogan?) button when Snape's back is turned, and Pansy makes some sort of face at Hermione behind Snape's back in GOF. They clearly feel that Snape won't just let it go if he sees them doing something wrong.
That's because in the book Ron isn't present during that scene, which is also why he doesn't get detention with Hagrid in the forest. He was at the hospital wing because of the bite that he got from Norbert.
But otherwise, yeah, Snape isn't anywhere near as biased as McGonagall. And let's not forget, he only snarks at Harry, but never gets physical with him, whereas McGonagall is pulling Draco along by the ear.
And good point on McGonagall as well.
150 points
Ron wasn't there. He was in the hospital wing. So 50 points each *should* add up to 150.
duj
Re: 150 points