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Under an Alive Abusive!James, Harry Would Have Been...?

The World of Severus Snape

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Under an Alive Abusive!James, Harry Would Have Been...?

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Based on Abusive!James discussion, I wonder, hypothetically, how Harry would've turned out under that environment, under AU idea of his parents surviving, and him of course living with them.

http://asylums.insanejournal.com/snapedom/124611.html#cutid1
  • I agree with others that have said that Harry ends up the way he is anyway while getting abused at the Dursley household.

    Since, as Mary says, this is a forum for discussing Snape, do you think maybe we could broaden this topic a little bit and speculate on how Harry might have turned out under the parenting of anybody in general, other than the Dursleys? James, Sirius, Remus, Snape... When James and Lily died, here were several people who might have become candidates for Harry's protection and up-bringing, if only it hadn't been for that love charm thing (and/or Dumbledore's insistence that "not being doted on as the world's savior" was such a good thing for Harry's personality formation -- yeah right, it was *perfect* for raising a nice obedient pig for slaughter). Oh and the fact that Sirius went straight to jail, and Remus was very poor and a danger to himself and others, because nobody had any wolfsbane potion made for him (wow, what a compassionate Order!) but anyway... I personally like to think that even Snape might have been a possibility. After all, Harry is Lily's flesh and blood, and the embodiment of her dying hope. Surely Snape, once he decided to live to protect Harry in her name, wanted to protect not only Harry's physical survival but also his psychological well-being? So, in time, if only Dumbledore had wanted him to, might Snape have become amenable to the idea of adopting Harry and raising him as his own son? Or not a chance? What do you think?

    And I'm curious to wonder what kind of a father *Snape* would have made. Certainly not very friendly towards children and maybe not at all a suitable candidate for parenting, but then he was a very consistent person in terms of setting rules and making his inferiors obey them, which is a helpful environment for a kid to gain a sense of stability in the world. Also he is a man that never physically harms those inferior to him in power (OotP cockroach jar scene and HBP final duel, both with Harry). Which is more than can be said for Vernon, and, it would seem reasonably to assume, James (even if he wasn't actually abusive). And I just can't escape this aching sense that, if Severus had been saddled with a one-year-old child who would eventually start showing unconditional affection towards him, perhaps he might have become a less bitter person over the eleven long years following Lily's death. Unconditional love seems to be the one thing he constantly longed for and never got, so I'm kind of sad about the fact that Dumbledore never for a second considered binding Harry's Lily-protection to her earnest suitor, despite how powerful a wizard Snape is and a way better personal protector than the Dursley family.
    • Oh, what interesting possibilities! Regarding the original question, I am worried that Lily's influence would not have been enough to counter James's attitude, and that Harry would have turned into a Gryffindor version of Draco. Also, if we're assuming that James is abusive, Lily may have become too cowed to defy him. Of course, in that case, Harry might grow to hate his father for mistreating his mother, and resolve to become the opposite of James, so it could go either way.

      As for parent substitutes, I think that Sirius--assuming that he didn't go to Azkaban--is too irresponsible to be a good father. He's more the "buddy" or "cool uncle" type. With his prejudices and recklessness, he would also probably turn out a little Gryffindor-Draco who sees all the Slytherins as Death Eaters.

      Lupin would be a loving parent, I think, and more responsible than Sirius. But there's the whole werewolf problem, as you mentioned, and I'm not sure he's strong enough to be a good role model for Harry. We've seen in the "Snape's Worst Memory" scene that he let his friends get away with doing cruel things, presumably because he was afraid of losing their friendship. And even as an adult, he shows his weaknesses: not telling Dumbledore that Sirius is an animagus; apparently letting Molly and Tonks pressure him into a romance with the latter; and temporarily abandoning his pregnant wife in DH.

      It might work out in a Snupin story, where Lupin and Snape are co-parents, since that would take care of the Wolfsbane Potion problem. Lupin could be the more nurturing parent while Snape is the disciplinarian--although that runs the risk of making Snape the bad guy. And it also assumes that Snape can get over his dislike of Harry.

      But I think, as you said, that he would have a harder time rejecting a one-year-old who is naturally going to bond with his caregiver. I think it would be harder to hate a baby than an older child who already looks like a young James. I guess Harry could already resemble James even as a baby, but to me, babies look less fully formed, and maybe Snape would find it easier to see the Lily in baby Harry. (Or maybe I just have baby-blinders. Personally, I can never see the resemblance when someone coos, "He looks just like his dad!" or "She looks just like her mother!")

      And yes, I think someone as deprived of affection as Snape is will find it hard to resist a child giving him unconditional love. And if Dumbledore played it as "you have to look after Harry for Lily's sake," I think Snape would have taken baby Harry in. And if he saw it as a way to atone for his part in Lily's death, maybe even partially redeem himself (figuratively speaking) in her eyes, then he would do his best to be a good parent to Harry. Maybe he wouldn't exactly know how to go about it, since he doesn't seem to have good examples in Tobias and Eileen, and he'd probably be awkward and overly stern at times, but I think he could grow to love Harry under those circumstances.
      • Awww now I really want to read that Snupin AU! The whole Dursley family got blasted away in the Sirius-Peter fiasco, and with nobody left that's close enough to help strengthen Lily's love charm, Dumbledore orders the two remaining Order members that were closest to her to become Harry's parents. Or something.

        You're right, those two would really complement each other's weaknesses, since Snape wouldn't let grievous misbehaviors go unquestioned and Lupin wouldn't let Snape make Harry feel unloved -- even if the man wanted to shield himself from getting attached to the boy for one reason or another, which with Remus' help he might not, to begin with :)

        There must be at least some Snupin-Harry family fics out there -- do you know of any?
    • I tend to think that Severus, as a parent, would actually be very caring and concerned to "do the thing right," because he seems to be very protective in nature, generally. He treats Draco and his other Slytherins decently, as far as we can tell, and even the children he dislikes he still doesn't harm physically--and I think a case can be made, as terri_testing has suggested elsewhere, that he did not see his emotional abuse as "really bad." That doesn't mean it wasn't; just that he might have been blind to how damaging it could be. That he was physically protective is not even a question: he's always on top of things to heal the injuries from Potions accidents, and he was (as an example) clearly distraught at the news of a student being taken into the Chamber of Secrets.

      I think, too, that if the child(ren) were his own, Severus would not only care deeply but be very protective, to a fault, and very, very biased in favor of his child(ren). Super loyalty, to the point of having blind spots to their flaws--while also holding to a conservative ideal of a strict, stern father. ;-) I don't think the man hated children, per se, or was incapable of feeling any affection for children.
      • Oh yes, Severus could have been a very protective and doting parent, couldn't he! I can just picture it, eight-year-old Harry ending up transporting himself on a roof at school, and his adoptive dad rushing in all worried and angry at the bullies -- not a word of reprimand about doing magic in front of Muggles occuring to him in the heat of the moment. You're right about his protective nature, and not actually hating kids. I'm reminded also of that scene in OotP where he sees Cedric's death in Harry's mind and looks shaken by the image.

        Though I do think Snape wouldn't be blind to his own child's faults, unlike Sirius would probably be, and James' parents (as well as Lily's) potentially were. He loves unconditionally (Lily, Dumbledore) and faithfully defends those he considers his people (Mulciber and Avery), but he seems to do it rationally and by following an objective value system -- at least when it comes to comparing people he likes to people he doesn't like, though not so much when assessing the behavior of his loved ones toward himself (he doesn't seem to see Lily as treating him unfairly). He never says "Mulciber didn't attack that girl" or "he didn't use Dark Arts" in defending his housemates to Lily. He only argues that their bullying bahaviors are nothing worse than what James and his gang call "innocent pranks."

        In his classroom he does seem to favor the Slytherins unduly (although Draco probably *was* good enough with Potions to actually legitimize his treatment) but then we have to remember that Snape was teaching potential future death eaters how to concoct things like poisons and healing salves (when he was teaching Potions) and how defend themselves in combat (DADA). Giving the Slytherin kids -- especially those with Death Eater parents -- actual constructive criticism on those subject matters were extremely risky. So I'm not sure how much he would actually favor his own child if they came to Hogwarts and under his tutelage. Or if they did something to harm somebody else in his own home, as Lily apparently did when she turned teacups into mice and psychologically terrified Petunia (I'm assuming that kind of behavior went unpunished, for the neglected sister to be so resentful). OTOH, he might be blind to a child he loves taking advantage of *him* -- and if Harry grew up to be as charming and cunning as he did in canon, he could play poor Severus like a flute, couldn't he? Ah, how I'd love to see that :)
      • I imagine Severus, as a parent, having at least two shelves full of books and scrolls on parenting and child development.:-)
        • Oh yeah, he'd totally be the type :) Thank God we're not speculating on how he would raise *Neville* because I have a feeling getting dropped off a pier wouldn't have been the only thing he suffered at poor Severus' hands! But then again I bet his methods would have actually been effective. Only, you know, maybe slightly paranoid and on the perfectionist side...
          • I would hope that Severus got his hands on some late 20th/early 21st century parenting books, and not Victorian parenting books. With a child of his own, Severus might even have gotten hiss on a copy of "How toTalk So Kids Will Listen" and improved his teaching style, too.:-)
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