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Sailor Lum (sailorlum) wrote in snape_sanity,
@ 2010-07-16 02:55:00

Entry tags:

mod post

The Tenets of Snape Sanity
Here are some tenets of Snape Sanity (broken down into sub-categories):

Note: The following covers responses to rabid Snapefen, who aren't welcome here.

ETA: This might still be under construction. It's being refined and having some stuff weeded out to make it more inclusive for all sane Snape fans and to get rid of anything repetitive. /ETA

Snape (General):
- Snape is a messed up dude with redeeming qualities (YMMV on how many)
- Snape was ultimately redeemed in the books, although he was still a very flawed individual. (YMMV on how much/whether or not you find him redeemed in your eyes.)
- Snape was not a helpless victim of fate (he had choices and he’s responsible for those choices)

Blood Prejudice and Racism:
- Blood prejudice is a form of racism (along with it being a form of some other –isms)
- This post on Unfunny Business highlights some racefail in Snape fandom:
Rowling has forgotten long ago that her books are being read by Muggles

Snape and Lily:
- SWM is SWM because Snape screwed up big time and he came to realize that
- Snape did a Heel Face Turn (joined the side of good) because he loved Lily and didn’t want to see her dead. (Or was it obsession? YMMV)
- The following essays and meta point out the misogynyfail in fandom with regards to Lily:
Why Blaming Lily is Rooted in Misogyny - Part 1
Why Blaming Lily is Rooted in Misogyny - Part 2
And I thought the misogyny couldn't get any worse.....

Canon and JKR:
- It’s okay to be a “canon whore”
- Fan theories and ‘what if’s are dandy as long as you remember that they aren’t canon and might be unlikely (even if possible) in canon
- Bashing and slut-shaming JKR is horrid

Shipping:
- The fact that a particular ship didn’t sail does not ruin the books

Fan Works:
- Both canon compliant fic and AU fic are welcome (including non-magical AU) ...Ditto for art.
- Slash, het, and gen are all welcome (as is femmeslash if you genderswap Snape or have a second ship in your fic besides a Snape ship).

Community:
- It’s best if anonymous posters sign their posts
- If you basically agree with the people criticized in ravenstar84’s essays or the people criticized and/or mocked at Unfunny Business and Fandom Wank, then this group is not for you
- We don’t all have to agree about everything (that would be boring) and there’s plenty of room to discuss theories and things left vague by canon, but heed the tone of the community as indicated by the statements above

ETA: This is the refined version of the list. I couldn't resist cleaning it up here on IJ as well (originally I was going to leave it up with del tags, but that looked so messy *eye twitch*).

PS: Please join the LJ version of Snape Sanity, if you can. It looks like it's going to be the more active version.

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ravenstar84.livejournal.com
2010-07-16 10:54 am UTC (link)

Hey! This comm was just bond to happen. Thank you so much! You and have mentioned how much we need this. I think this is off to a really great start.

I have a couple suggestion. I think some parts of this list can be condensed just a bit. I know this comm is supposed to be an alternative to places like Snapedom, and many Snape haters have the same qualms that we do. But if we make clear that this truly a Snape fans comm, I think they'll know what this is about.

Also, I know of some Snape fans who do like him as a character, but may have opinions of him that are much harsher than your's or mine's. e.g. Snape's didn't "truly" love Lily and his love wasn't exactly "pure". I don't like it, but I still think there's room for it considering that it can be argued that Snape had selfish reasons for finally turning to the right side, and all of us judge things like love and selfishness in different degrees. My point is that there's so much variety even with those of us Snapefans who do follow the canon, that the list of viewpoints might bit too restrictive in how we should view him.

I think noting the misogyny and racefail that has happened in places like Snapedom are the most important things to mention. For me, those are the most important reasons for why we need this comm.

Anyway, please let me know what you think about all this. Again, it was just something I wanted to address that I think would make this comm more welcoming and diverse. And it would make us more of a better and alternative comm compared to places like Snapedom.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(Anonymous)
2010-07-16 11:44 am UTC (link)

I think that it depends on your definition of "love" - Snape's love for Lily was not healthy; it was pretty much an obsession, which didn't care much about her as a person in many ways - he joined a group that was racist against her, after all.

He basically wanted to possess her: Consider that he got Voldemort to agree to spare her, but didn't even care about her husband and child; and consider that she was all he cared about when he went to Dumbledore.

That's not to say that his feelings didn't become more healthy after he had time to think about his mistakes. But, before her death, his love was of a deeply flawed sort, and fails many aspects of the I Corinthians 13 test:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

I agree that Snape loved Lily. That he did came out in the end, when Lily's death made him reevaluate his actions and turn to the side of good. But his tragedy is that it took the death of the person he loved by his actions to make him actually care about her and what she would have wanted.

That's why Snape's such an interesting character.

-Farmercuerden on LJ/JF

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

sailorlum
2010-07-16 06:45 pm UTC (link)

Thanks for your input, too! :D

I've made some adjustments to the list (I don't want to be too restrictive and I do want to be more inclusive for all sane Snape fans). Feel free to let me know if you think I've deleted something crucial or left in something frivilous. ;)

IA that Snape's early love was definitely flawed and did not completely pass the I Corinthians 13 test. (There was definitely some fail there.) ^_^'

I believe it was sincere enough that I personally don't chalk even his earlier love up to 'pretty much an obsession' (but I'm a huge Severus/Lily shipper, so I'm biased there, LOL). I do agree that him joining a racist organization was a big disconnect from caring about her as a person (he definitely wasn't respecting her there, to say the least - ugh, I just want to whack Snape upside the head, hard). I chalk it [Snape's selfishness/thoughtlessness with regard to Lily] up to severly borked priorities and compartmentalizing, but that's me and I totally understand that YMMV as to how flawed love can be and still be called love.

I agree that Snape loved Lily. That he did came out in the end, when Lily's death made him reevaluate his actions and turn to the side of good. But his tragedy is that it took the death of the person he loved by his actions to make him actually care about her and what she would have wanted.

I think that's a really good and interesting insight. I pretty much agree (except for my softer view of his earlier love, lol).

I'll have to make "Snape and Lily" the next topic for discussion, as I'm very interested in hearing all the various opinions from sane Snape fans on 'Snape and Lily', without the crazy fen derailing the discussion with misogynistic hoo-ha.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	sailorlum 2010-07-16 05:15 pm UTC (link)
	Thanks for the input and advice! :) I'll weed the list down to nitty gritty (I'll use del tags so peeps can see what I've weeded out). I don't want it to be too restrictive, and in the light of day the list seems too much, LOL. Let me know if you think I've deleted something crucial or left in something frivilous. ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

summeriris
2010-07-17 08:56 am UTC (link)

I think your list covers most of what is best and worst of the Snape fan's take on Snape.
On the matter of Blood prejudice and Snape's turn to the good side. My problem with this is we never hear Snape's voice confirming that he is actually working for Dumbledore and the right. We can surmise that he is, but perhaps he's not. It's this abigouity that fasinates with Snape, It is still very mush is he or is he not?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

sailorlum
2010-07-18 01:51 am UTC (link)

Thanks for your input! :D

Hmmm, maybe I should add a YMMV to the redemption statement, like I did for the Lily love statement... Yes, I think I shall. *adds it* *cleans up post while I'm at it*

Snape behaved so terribly a lot of the time, I can understand why people have trouble making "on the side of good" jibe with "asshole bastard". I guess it's kind of like the love vs. obsession issue. How flawed can love be and still be called love? How flawed can one be morally and still be on the side of good?

I certainly agree that no matter how you slice it, canon Snape is morally ambiguous. And that's one of the things I love about his character. :) I'm a sucker for morally ambiguous characters (esp. if they have some kind of redemptive story arc). I love to send them (further) on redemption road in fic, heh heh.

The redemption statement is really there because of the crazy Snapefen. Some of the Snapefen who wanted Snape to be redeemed and think he deserved redemption, also think he didn't really get redemption in the books and they are butthurt and whine and moan and blame JKR and the wizarding world for it. They aren't blaming Snape for not being redeemed, they blame JKR and everyone but Snape. That drives me nuts!

Please feel free to join Snape Sanity, if you wish, BTW. I do want Snape Sanity to be a place for all sane Snape fans. (I blame the late hour that I posted the original list in, for my not pairing down all/much more of the frivolous stuff.) *^.^*

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	summeriris 2010-07-18 10:25 pm UTC (link)
	My spelling sucks. (Reply to this)