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Tweak says, "Hide and Tweak"

his_spiffyness (his_spiffyness) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-07-06 18:29:00

Entry tags:

char: battlestone, char: seahawk, creator: mark millar, creator: rob liefeld, nsfw: sex, publisher: arcade comics, title: youngblood

The World According to Rob Liefeld...
So, in the world of Rob Liefeld, two men kissing because they are romantically involved is a bad thing...

Receiving meaningless and degrading oral sex from another man is EXTREME!!!

(Post a new comment)

	jlroberson 2009-07-06 11:44 pm UTC (link)
	Eurrgh. Garth Ennis does this better. (Reply to this)

	foxhack 2009-07-06 11:51 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah okay, I read Scott and Logan and my mind just went somewhere else. Of course, having a guy with a Cyclops visor and a guy with Wolverine hair didn't help either. I can't even scream at how ridiculous this crap is. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	kamino_neko 2009-07-07 01:20 am UTC (link)
	I'm pretty sure that was exactly the point. You know as well as anyone that Liefeld's never been subtle. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlbarnett 2009-07-07 01:29 am UTC (link)
	I'm surprised something that blatent wouldn't get him slapped with copyright violations (Reply to this) (Parent)

	uadlika 2009-07-06 11:55 pm UTC (link)
	wha? (Reply to this)

ian_karkull
2009-07-06 11:56 pm UTC (link)

Ugh, please let's not go there.
This isn't Fandom Wank, plus I've been following this thing all through yesterday and the little shouting match between "He Who Shall Not Be Posted"* and "He Who Shall Only Be Named In AllCaps Of Despair* was rather sad, completely ridiculous and utterly pathetic.

Besides, who gives a damn about Shatterstar anyway?

(*PAD and Liefeld, respectively)

(Reply to this)

	taggerung301 2009-07-07 12:02 am UTC (link)
	o_O what on earth is this? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	kd_the_movie 2009-07-07 12:09 am UTC (link)
	Liefeld isn't anti-gay. He just felt they're taking a character he co-created in a direction that he doesn't support. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	taggerung301 2009-07-07 12:56 am UTC (link)
	I was just curious what comic this is (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	galateus 2009-07-07 01:03 am UTC (link)
	It looks like it's from this (locked entry for NSFW content). "Herogasm" still sucks as a name. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	foxhack 2009-07-07 01:41 am UTC (link)
	It's not. Herogasm's by Garth Ennis. This is by Mark Millar. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ashtoreth 2009-07-07 01:53 am UTC (link)
	Actually, I think this is a Youngblood thing. I heard about it sometime back. The actuality is disappointing. Seriously, lame porn. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sd_mouser 2009-07-08 02:08 am UTC (link)
	...the Penthouse Comix stuff was less bad... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-07-08 03:13 am UTC (link)
	YOU SAW THAT TOO! Really, the Penthouse Comix superhero series looks like it was based on parodying Youngblood. I wish I owned real copies. (Reply to this) (Parent)

icon_uk
2009-07-07 12:16 am UTC (link)

So, in the world of Rob Liefeld, two men kissing because they are romantically involved is a bad thing.

Well, no that's NOT what he said.

His words were;

"I have nothing against gays, I have gay family, nuthin’ but love here. Ditto gay characters if that’s what their true origins are.

“As the guy that created, designed and wrote his first dozen appearances, Shatterstar is not gay. Sorry. Can’t wait to someday undo this. Seems totally contrived.”

Leaving aside the whole "Spartan" bit, he says he has nothing against a gay character or two, he has a problem with a character he co-created and intended to be deliberately asexual, suddenly being gay.

Lord knows I may not be a fan of the man's work, but I'd rather we didn't cast generalised aspersions which don't match his comments.

There's a debate about it here, with both Rob and Peter David commenting on the matter

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	timemonkey 2009-07-07 01:26 am UTC (link)
	There's always the fact that Shatterstar's been switched to a new body to explain the sidden gayness. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlbarnett 2009-07-07 01:30 am UTC (link)
	frankly I think all the recurring Mojoverse characters should be revelaed to have been cloned several times. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	freezer818 2009-07-07 01:28 am UTC (link)
	Liefeld's protests might hold a bit more water if he'd given 'Star anything approaching a personality outside of "Badass With Swords". Or had anything to do with the character for the better part of two decades. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	foxhack 2009-07-07 01:29 am UTC (link)
	That's more or less why I didn't say anything. As much as I dislike the guy's art, he's not flaming or anything. He's just saying he disagrees with it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	bluejaybirdie 2009-07-07 01:43 am UTC (link)
	Huh. I kinda feel a bit sorry for Rob, at this point. Man can't draw for crap, but I don't think he's the a-hole he's being presented as in some of the comments either. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-07-08 05:28 am UTC (link)
	He seems like a nice guy and all, just a talentless hack when it comes to the actual drawing of comics. I have similar complaints about Ronald Reagan. (Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2009-07-07 03:09 am UTC (link)

That first sentence is really close to "some of my best friends are gay." It's a problematic distancing technique.

But I think the real issue is the audacity in this apparently sincere quote:

“Your opinion doesn’t change the fact that it sucks and it’s not a positive move in most fans’ eyes. And it’s all well and fine that you don’t respect a creator’s wishes or intent. I’m different like that.”

Uh-huh. I love "your opinion doesn't change the fact that it sucks." So clever!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

kingrockwell
2009-07-07 03:53 am UTC (link)

Yeah, I think the argument's making too many assumptions, especially the ones getting on to Liefeld for making these statements about Shatterstar when he hadn't complained about anything else in the past twenty years going on with characters he'd created. That accusation kind of misses the point that someone explicitly asked him on his message board how he felt and then those statements were reposted on Robot6.

I've got no love for the guy, but people should really save their energy for a fight that's worth it. Liefeld's way too easy a target, especially with the hole he dug himself with his poor choice of words, to come out of this looking like anything but a bully.

I mean, sure, congrats on finally saying what we'd all been thinking as far as Rictor/Shatterstar goes, but way to stay classy, PAD.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	trelas 2009-07-07 05:43 am UTC (link)
	To be fair, I don't think the fuss would have been this big if Liefeld had stopped at that. Instead he did continue to point out how he couldn't wait to undo this character development which set people back and other stuff, as you probably noticed in the discussion and kind of falls over all of the place in defending that position. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	flidgetjerome 2009-07-07 10:34 am UTC (link)
	he has a problem with a character he co-created The fact that he co-created Shatterstar with Fabian Niceiza isn't getting brought up very much in this kerfluffle. I'd honestly be a lot more sympathetic for Rob if wasn't acting like he was the sole creator and ignoring Niceiza's stated position that Shatterstar would develop a sexuality over time. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	drsevarius 2009-08-22 02:15 am UTC (link)
	Niceiza's stated position that Shatterstar would develop a sexuality over time. what did he say? (Reply to this) (Parent)

janegray
2009-07-07 07:47 pm UTC (link)

he has a problem with a character he co-created and intended to be deliberately asexual, suddenly being gay.

But the thing is, Shatterstar didn't "suddenly" become gay. Heavy implications that he is gay have been presented for over a decade.

http://community.livejournal.com/ship_manifesto/183707.html

In particular, X-Force #56, which was published in 1996, has the following paragraph:

She has lost Warpath. [Shatterstar] has lost Rictor.
Both see these missing teammates as "friends."
Both too stubborn to admit they may mean more then that.

If Liefeld claims that Shatterstar's coming out is "contrived", it means he hasn't been paying attentio to the character for at least 13 years.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	jlroberson 2009-07-07 11:08 pm UTC (link)
	Anyone who starts a sentence with "I have nothing against gays"--phrased that way--does. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-07-07 11:31 pm UTC (link)
	Can't agree with that, it's the ultimate "damned if you do, damned if you don't" statement regarding how you view sexuality. The fact that it IS a cliche amongst those who are prejudiced, is not enough to reverse generalise that anyone who uses it is automatically prejudiced (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-07-07 11:38 pm UTC (link)
	Okay, granted. That was unfair. I've been in that position as "some of my best friends" indeed are gay. (Reply to this) (Parent)

foxhack
2009-07-07 01:40 am UTC (link)

Oh, from a thread linked to below, this is something Rob said (it's relevant to the scan):

“I remember seeing some image, I believe from a Youngblood comic by Rob Liefeld, where a group of ” heroes” are sitting around in a bathtub, doing drugs and getting blowjobs from two characters that look an awful lot like Cyclops and Wolverine.

Did I imagine that?”

No you did not. That was Youngblood:Blodsport written by Mark Millar and drawn by myself. Approved and published. Mark used that scene to depict the debauchery that former Youngblood’s had fallen into.

So, even though Liefeld drew it... Millar wrote it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-07-07 01:56 am UTC (link)
	Millar usually does better dialogue. This is painfully stilted. (Reply to this) (Parent)

sinisterlink
2009-07-07 01:55 am UTC (link)

Okay, saying already that Rictor and Shatterstar are in a "romantic relationship" is getting just a bit ahead of yourself. Seriously, it's one panel at the end of an issue where Shatterstar grabs Rictor's face and kisses him. While Peter David has stated that it's not a cop-out or anything, one kiss does not mean they are instantly a couple. If they DO become a couple, that's fine. But I'm kind of tired of going on different messages boards and such and seeing people already looking waaaaaay too into this. Seriously, I went to one messageboard and almost everyone there was just going on and on like, "OMG, I'm so happy they are a couple now, they are so in love with each other, this is so awesome, maybe they'll get married and we can have the first gay wedding in Marvel, etc." Everyone needs to just chill and wait till the next issues or whatever to see how it pans out.

If Rictor and Shatterstar do get together, I hope they at least mention that Rictor is bi, though. I will be so ticked off if they do a Willow and have him just suddenly be like, "Oh, I'm gay now".

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	schala_kid 2009-07-07 05:03 am UTC (link)
	I know, Rictor always seemed to me as being pretty interested in women, so he at least has to be bi. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-07-08 01:30 am UTC (link)

Not necessarily, it could just as easily be that he'd never even considered men as romantic/sexual partners before, but now he has, that's what he wants. Orientation is within the mind of the person, not an external assumption.

Willow Rosenberg is an example, she'd have classified herself as straight (and does) right up until the moment she meets Tara. From that point on she identifies exclusively as gay, never once bisexual. The fact she's HAD a sexual relationship with a male in the past doesn't automatically make her bi.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	I always remember Youngblood as the poster child for 90s decadence. southerncracker 2009-07-07 04:05 am UTC (link)
	But this page is serious crack. How the hell did they not get in trouble with Marvel for this? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: I always remember Youngblood as the poster child for 90s decadence. timgueguen 2009-07-07 05:38 am UTC (link)
	Parody defense? After all it can be argued the viewer is supposed to know that isn't the real Logan and Scott. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	nezchan 2009-07-07 05:38 am UTC (link)
	You know, the badstupid gay thing doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that his head in the first panel is only three inches thick. (Reply to this)

statham1986
2009-07-07 10:31 am UTC (link)

Liefeld is a touch more eloquent here than he usually is, right up until this point;

“Your opinion doesn’t change the fact that it sucks and it’s not a positive move in most fans’ eyes. And it’s all well and fine that you don’t respect a creator’s wishes or intent. I’m different like that.”

Which just continues to reek of his egotism and stupidity, and hints more at the fact that he's just being a baby about a character he's had nearly zilch to do with in two decades is gay. Despite the fact that the article already states that Shatterstar was asexual and 'learning about human customs' and the like. So is it, oh, I don't know, too much of stretch to imagine he decided to be gay??

(Reply to this)

	ssjrevan 2009-07-07 01:17 pm UTC (link)
	Um why does Cyclops have Jeans head? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	long_silence 2009-07-07 09:02 pm UTC (link)
	I assume its a wig. Same reason Logan's wearing the Marvel Girl mask. (Reply to this) (Parent)

janegray
2009-07-07 07:34 pm UTC (link)

To my understanding, Liefeld wrote the character for his first dozen appearances, giving him only the very shallowest characterization, then completely abandoned him for like twenty years, leaving other writers to develop him nearly from scratch. These other writers have been heavily implying that the character is gay for over a decade (I'm talking Cable-And-Deadpool-level implications, here).

Now the implications finally pay off, and suddenly Liefeld is bitching?

Even though he has had absolutely nothing to do with the development of the character for two decades, and never gave him much of a characterization to begin with?

Even though the anvilicous implications have been going on for over a decade, and he never objected to them?

Even though he doesn't own the character anyway, and Marvel has been making huge changes to all of his creations for decades, and he never objected to those either?

Even though the other creator of the character, Fabian Nicieza, admitted that he meant for the character to eventually develop a sexuality?

Shut up, Liefeld.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	kingrockwell 2009-07-07 11:48 pm UTC (link)
	I hate to defend the guy, but in all fairness he made those statements now because someone went to his message board and asked him. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	silverzeo 2009-07-08 12:56 am UTC (link)
	This strip explains why no one takes more than half of today's comic seriously... (Reply to this)

	psychop_rex 2009-07-08 05:44 am UTC (link)
	Sooo, the message is, what? 'If the other guy dresses up like your girlfriend while he's giving you a BJ, it's not gay'? Also, note the girl in the background looking on in eager interest. 'Oh, wow, come look, they're going to do it AGAIN! Seriously, I would have thought they'd have run out of protein by now.' (Reply to this)