LJ-SEC: (ORIGINALLY POSTED BY roseross)

Unsuccessful again in persuading a Bible literalist the Earth is not 6,000 years old. At first, I thought I was doing well. I put aside the issue of evolution because that's was too loaded. I focused strictly on geology and the evidence that shows our planet is very, very old. I used canyons because any one of us can go to a canyon and count the strata -- geology is right there in front of you, on a literal basis.

No go. The fundie said that The Flood caused all the great canyons. I suggested she read a geology text paying attention to the difference between slow erosion patterns and the effect of violent, cataclysmic events. Don't know whether she will but I doubt it.

So, I wondered if some here might have some fresh suggestions for the next time I go into one of these discussions. (I also brought up carbon dating and the length of time it takes for light to travel through the vast distances of space -- those didn't seem to make an impression.)

What other clear, simple, easy-to-understand evidence would you point out if you wanted to demonstrate our planet is more than a few thousand years old?

LJ-SEC: (ORIGINALLY POSTED BY dagoski)

From Alternet, comes this history of the modern court decision that affirmed the separation of church and state. This is way too long to simply excerpt into the journal, so follow the link. This is very useful in understanding why the religous right has to go to the lengths they do in creating revisionists histories to prop up their views.

LJ-SEC: (ORIGINALLY POSTED BY turnsintostone)

Francis Stafford, ex-Archbishop of Denver/now Cardinal is apparently responsible for the Charismatic movement within the Catholic Church. He has also been said, according to the Archdiocese of Denver's newspaper, that he has improved relationships between Catholics and Jews, Anglicans and Lutherans. There's another piece that Stafford signed agreeing to work with the evangelicals on particular issues, also signed by Pat Robertson, among others.

Does anyone understand these relationships very well, as well as anything about the relationship between Stafford and Chaput?

Are there any non-wiki sources that are available online or through libraries on this issue?