When Eleanor had suggested a night of RHONY and wine, she'd noted that in the past week Julia had shown up, but not Marina's Julia, and then someone from Holland's world had shown up, but not Holland. Sure, she had agreed they wouldn't talk about it, but she also knew that even if Marina was never, in a million years, ever going to let it show that she was feeling actual human emotions, she had to be feeling something.
So she agreed to not talk about it. And to not hug, which shouldn't have been as difficult as it had been in the past. She blamed Tahani and her stupidly good hugs. Which was easy, because Tahani wasn't there, and if she was there, she could hug her.
Instead, she was watching Real Housewives of New York, which still wasn't as good as Atlanta but she was mad that NeNe apparently left again so New York was currently the preferable option. Fortunately Marina seemed to enjoy this trash as much as she did. And she'd brought two bottles of wine with her so they were in good shape and several episodes in.
"I really don't like Kelly," she said, for maybe the third or fourth time that night.
There was a lot of stuff with Kelly and Jill’s mom coming to visit and Bethenny breaking up with Jason (or really, she was already broken up with him). Marina chose not to acknowledge the unusual sadness at that because Jason was absolutely boring and it was probably just the lingering stupidness that was watching her breakup with Anna. But Kelly’s horse problems was just really boring now. “Yeah. I know. She’s boring. But I’m ready to watch Bethenny potentially attempt to bone someone.” She was actually not at all interested in what Bethenny was going to do, but it seemed the easiest thing to focus on at the moment.
She sipped at her wine and rolled her eyes as Bethenny told the camera that the gays were more judgmental. “I hate all of them, honestly.” She took another sip of her wine before she said, “I’m determined to not be able to dance just to annoy her.”
"That's fair, there's no NeNe on this show," Eleanor replied. When they'd watched the Atlanta version, there wasn't really a reason for Eleanor to love NeNe as much as she did, but she had started the show when she was still alive, so maybe that explained it. Either way, she appreciated what NeNe brought to the table.
"I still hope these kids manage to not become carbon copies of their parents," she added later after the count missed his kid's riding thing and Eleanor had cracked open the second bottle of wine. She had managed. Marina had obviously managed, though she barely knew anything at all about her family, she realized. That thought turned her attention away from the television and toward Marina, as she briefly considered asking.
Then she immediately thought better of it. Blindsiding her with a personal question (though not explicitly off limits!) during RHONY was probably a crime in Marina's book. And the point of the evening was distraction, anyway. Though she probably took a bit too long to turn her attention back to the screen.
Marina was watching the show with a level of increasing judgment as time went on. The girl that met Bethenny while she was dancing on a table gave her pause and she was going to say that she wanted more of that story when she looked over and noticed Eleanor staring at her. “What?” They weren’t really eating, so there wasn’t likely something in her teeth and she knew she wasn’t exactly drunk enough to have spilled on herself. It was possible that Eleanor was just thinking about hugs again. That was something she seemed to struggle with a lot. She didn’t get it, but she was sure that Eleanor could have hugged to avoid this problem.
Hopefully she could avoid it.
"I was just thinking about these kids," Eleanor answered. "And how I hope they don't end up as carbon copies of their shitty parents. And how we didn't, but then I realized I know next to nothing about yours."
If nothing else, it was an honest answer. She didn't actually ask anything, and didn't really expect Marina to offer up information even if she was curious.
Marina considered the comments. She hadn’t really talked about them except to say they weren’t worth knowing because they weren’t. She didn’t have a good family growing up and they had next to nothing, so she grew up with an intense hunger for having things. She didn’t know really how much she wanted to delve into her past because she preferred to think of both parents as dead even if one was dead and the other was...who the fuck knew where anymore. Marina hadn’t actually kept tabs since she got to Brakebills.
“Well, there’s not really much to tell about them. Outside of you saw him when Henry turned into him and he was a drunk. Mom’s...barely worth talking about because she was pathetic and worthless.” Always forgiving her father’s behavior and the fact that they didn’t have things because he drank all their money away. She worked a lot and wasn’t that great either at keeping money in the house. Sometimes stealing was the only way to get anything that she needed. “They’re both worthless.”
Eleanor nodded, somewhat surprised to get that much, but also it fit with what she knew. Though she had no idea about Marina's mom before. "Well, we both made it out," she said. "Maybe there's hope for these kids."
It was probably weird, how much she worried about the kids on the show, but their parents were insane. "I still can't believe my mom got a do-over and seemingly figured it out."
Marina shrugged. She wasn’t as concerned about the kids making it out and being their own people. She was sure it was just one of those things. Kids were always going to be fucked up by their parents. What else was new? But she guessed, having watched Eleanor’s show, she understood that it was important to her. Much like knowing things about people and trying to get to know them. Though, that was a later development. It was a side effect of “becoming a better person” whatever that meant.
“Yeah. I’m sure they’ll be fine.” She shrugged. “I don’t think mine is getting a do over. Maybe she’s also dead. Haven’t heard anything, though and now we’re not even in the same timeline or world.” Marina said everything with the nonchalance you’d afford talking about the weather. “Kind of wouldn’t be sad if she was.”
"How'd you deal?" Eleanor asked. "Growing up, that is." Eleanor had learned about emancipation and then done everything in her power to make it happen. She wasn't even sure she had it that bad, only that she wanted better than her parents were willing to give her. But Marina had seen her break down in front of Michael. There had always been a part of her that wanted parents that actually cared. That wanted her mom to give a shit about her the way she did now with Patricia.
But she'd also lived closed off to people, looking out for herself above anything else. That she'd inherited from her parents, and it hadn't been easy to shake.
And now RHONY was making her think about all of this. Weird.
How did she deal? Poorly. But she managed. She just had to wait to be old enough to leave. “About the same as usual. Steal what I need.” She shrugged. She didn’t give a shit about the people she took from because no one gave a shit about her, so what was the point in caring about them? There were some people who gave her food or things when they saw her around because they knew her parents and what was going on. She never stole from them. In fact, she probably would have hurt anyone that did.
“Then Dad died and I buried him. No one was going to look for him and it was…” She shrugged. “Well, he was dead. I don’t know what else I was going to do. It wasn’t like I could afford a funeral. And my mom certainly wasn’t going to deal with it.”
Eleanor reached for the bottle of wine, and then leaned in close enough to top off Marina's glass without spilling anything (though she was reminded there was magic if she did) and her own. The show kept playing on in the background, ignored. "Fuck," she said, grateful at least that she hadn't resorted back to fake good place swearing. So that had been literal, when Marina had said it on the show.
"You know, you probably don't want me to say this, but I'm going to anyway and I wouldn't say it if I wasn't prepared to back it up. But you're not on your own anymore. I mean… obviously you can take care of yourself just fine, but I'm here. Whenever you need someone." A friend, maybe, but Eleanor didn't push her luck.
"I do know what it's like, you know," she added quietly, after a couple seconds. Honestly she expected Marina to blow her off, or say gross, or try and call her out on breaking the rules established for the evening. So while she waited for that, she took a drink, knowing full well old Eleanor would have had a reply meant to keep this newer version of herself at a distance.
Marina shrugged. It was easier to shrug things off than talk about them. It happened such a long time ago. Well, not that long ago, but she preferred to look at it as something that happened a lifetime ago because she was a completely different girl from the one that she used to be. It was a fight to get there, but she wouldn’t give it up for anyone.
Her nose scrunched up slightly and she took a sip of her wine. “I am fine on my own. I don’t need people to help me most of the time.” Sometimes she did, but whatever. Collaborative magic was necessary for others. She missed her hedges and the group she’d had in Tumbleweed and basically everything else that happened. She missed the people she’d known even when she acted like it wasn’t a big deal. But admitting that? Ha. No. She wasn’t going to do that.
“Anyway. Bethenny and Kelly are fighting…” Which seemed much more relevant to what was happening right now than talking about her feelings.
"Just putting it out there, hot stuff," Eleanor said, but allowed her attention to be drawn back to the television. Bethenny and Kelly were fighting, which wasn't a surprise. This show never really surprised her. The New York housewives could probably be a study in human predictability.
"Oh. Julia was in the bookstore today. With Fen. Someone else took care of them but it's kind of weird seeing people in person after five seasons on television."
They always fought. It was just funny to see people who actually told people they were above them and everyone giving that much of a shit about men in general. Not that she hadn’t dated men before and she’d sort of liked Holland in a way, but she didn’t really talk about that either. They’d joked around a lot, but...mostly it was her teasing him. She still remembered the easy way he shifted personalities when they were playing pool and she frowned at the screen for a moment.
She perked up at the mention of Julia, drawn out of her thoughts. “Oh? I showed her around, so I guess she was bound to be there. Surprised she was with Fen, though.” Mostly cause she barely remembered anything about Fen. She remembered she existed and that she was apparently married to Eliot of all people? That had to be disappointing for her. Except in Texas, she was pretty sure Eliot was married to two people there and one of them was weirdly Kylo Ren. She would not have dated Kylo Ren for anything. Not even big money.
"Is it weird?" Eleanor asked. "Spending time with someone who you knew before?" This was bordering on the restricted topic list, but she was trying to work out what it would be like if Chidi showed up after they'd taken away his memory or if anyone she'd known who had left came back. Though really, she hadn't gotten close to any of them in the same way she now knew Marina and a few other people. She looked over again, thinking how absolutely miserable she would be if Marina disappeared now.
“It’s whatever. She still acts like her. It’s just...different.” Like there were things she knew about Julia that Julia wouldn’t know that she knew. And there were just a bunch of things that happened that Julia didn’t know about. Like that time Marina beat a man to death with a shovel and ended up pulling a muscle during it. He’d hurt Julia, though, and he deserved it and she didn’t regret it. She’d kill anything and anyone that tried to hurt Julia. She didn’t care about it. She didn’t care what anyone thought about her for it either. She just didn’t need anyone to know about it.
“She just is back to barely knowing me again.” She drank a good portion of the wine in her cup even if she logistically knew it was probably a bad idea. “But that’s not even a big deal. There’s little to no benefits in being known anyway.”
"And here I was just thinking about how miserable I'd be if you disappeared," Eleanor said, raising a brow. "Because you know me. And because I know you, for that matter. At least somewhat," she added before Marina could protest.
Marina looked at her for a moment. “You’ve made it through worse, but I am pretty amazing, so it’s always bound to be hard to lose me.” It was flippant and revealed little of the weird whatever that was running through her mind. If she lost Eleanor, she’d bury it like everything else that disappointed her in her life and ignore it except for when the topic came up or her brain betrayed her and she had to shove it all back down.
“I’ll have a painting of you as a clown done in your honor if you disappear.” She forced her expression neutral to avoid giving off any sort of amusement. “Then if you ever showed up, I’d give it to you. Sure, you’d never talk to me again, but I could at least avoid the hugs.”
This was about what Eleanor expected so she wasn't even deterred by it. Until Marina brought up the clowns. Then Eleanor just looked at her, horrified. "You are the worst. The absolute worst," she repeated. "One, my hugs are not that bad, you hot, unemotional gremlin, and two? That's absolutely terrifying and I'm probably going to have nightmares tonight."
But she couldn't help it. The idea of Marina making a fucking clown painting was terrifying but also kind of hilarious, and she hated that she laughed at the idea, but she did laugh. "The worst," she repeated.
Marina grinned at her expression, feeling a moment of triumph. At least there was an escape plan if she ever needed it. It would suck to have no one to watch RHONY with, but it would ensure a clean break. “I just don’t like hugs. It’s like being punished for existing.” But she still won. And part of her refused to admit that she didn’t mind them that much. They were just so foreign and uncomfortable because of how foreign they were.
“I have amazing ideas. You’re welcome.”
"I hope that if I ever show up and you present me with that nightmare fuel, I somehow hug you even harder for it," Eleanor said. "Because if hugs are punishment for existing you'd deserve it even more."
Her expression sobered a bit as she finished off her glass and set it down. "You know I didn't mean anything like that, right?"
“And you think I’m terrible. I’m pretty sure you’d just run away, though. Drop all the hard work whoever did the painting did on the ground.” She shook her head like it was something to be disappointed in.
But then Eleanor had to be serious. “Mean what?” Cause she was pretty sure she could guess but also not a hundred percent on it.
"I mean I didn't hug you to punish you. Just because you're my friend, and I care about you. And because sometime after dying this became a thing that I do… voluntarily." She turned to lean back into the arm of the couch, drawing her legs up and facing Marina. "I'm going to go ahead and blame Tahani."
She missed Tahani. And Chidi. And that level of comfort she had with both of them by the time she'd ended up here and she lamented the idea that her friendship and her relationship would only strengthen with time, but she was here, not there, and they were not here.
Marina looked down at her lap for a moment, not really wanting to look at Eleanor in this moment. It felt awkward on both sides. But that was the way of things bordering on emotions. Except it was less bordering and more ‘somehow plopped in the middle of’. “Hugs just...aren’t me.” And being close to people was just...weird. She knew she was part of it, but she didn’t like to acknowledge it. “It’s gross.”
"I keep saying this, and I know it may not seem like it since I kind of don't mind hugs at all now, but I get it," Eleanor said, because she did get it or at least thought she did. "I used to keep everyone at arm's length too, and went into sabotage mode when people got too close. I mean I broke up with Samuel over some pervert at a coffee shop, which admittedly, not my finest moment." Though she contended that version of her was never going to be good for him anyway. She'd done him a favor, at least.
She looked at Marina, who was looking anywhere but at her. "I can tell you, it's better on the other side. Not hugs, specifically. Just being able to trust people enough to let them close. Even if then you wind up here and they're not here and maybe don't even exist anymore… I mean, other than Jason."
She smiled softly at that, because Jason was his own thing entirely.
“Kind of don’t mind seems like a stretch considering the number of times you hug people.” Marina did have a way of figuring out what would keep people from talking to her anymore if she really needed it, but then she was also really bad at sticking to it somehow. Even the other her who didn’t lose everyone...except her stupid dad probably. But he wasn’t the sort of person she ever really mourned because he wasn’t really worth the effort. I’m not usually the one doing the breaking up was a very immediate thought that she kept quiet. Most of the people that she dated ended up breaking up with her because she was a sociopath...or whatever complaint they offered up. Usually psychopath, which wasn’t accurate. She was definitely more like Lisa from Girl, Interrupted. Except not as messy. And with better hair.
“Mmmm. Pass.” Because that was her response to everything she didn’t feel like doing. “Kind of overrated, honestly. And you’ve seen what happens when people trust me anyway.” Like how Josh died and how her entire Hedge died and...basically a lot of things. “So I’m good.”
As for Jason. “I’m surprised he lived as long as he did, honestly.”
"I trust you," Eleanor pointed out, choosing to focus on that even though Marina did have a point about Jason. Marina knew her better than anyone else here, after all. And she was who Eleanor called the moment she'd needed someone. Sure, that was murder turkeys, and not like, emotional support. But it still counted.
“I’d say that was your first mistake but your first mistake was the hugs.” Marina stared for a moment at the wine. It was part accusatory and part considering. She was trying to decide if it was a good idea to drink more. It probably wasn’t. “Cause trusting people is for idiots.” And obviously not some deep seated distrust in herself to not get people killed or something. Nope. It was not that at all.
"Hey, look at me over here, being good," Eleanor protested. "No matter how much I want to hug you now." Her voice fell quieter, "But I do know how much you care about people, even if you'd rather pretend that you don't, that every good thing you've done is merely out of convenience or mutually beneficial or whatever other excuse you'd toss my way. Because it sucks when you do put yourself out there and people still only want to see you one way."
Eleanor didn't mention Anna's name, but she was referring to her, and to events and things Marina technically hadn't done yet. But it tracked, and she was still angry with Anna, who she'd never even met for not being able to see what was obvious to her. And for still having some sort of power over the Marina who she knew, who she cared about, who deserved much better and who definitely didn't need to change her entire identity.
Marina felt restless. Mostly she wanted to leave the conversation and never come back. Leave it to Eleanor to decide what they do from here, but she also wasn’t sure where she was when it came to walking out at this point. “They’re not really wrong. I mean, would I have done it if they didn’t word as bond me? Proooobably not.” Especially since she was already in the shit with Anna by then.
“And I’m pretty sure what I do is mostly for my benefit, so it tracks. I know me pretty well.” Which was why she knew most of what was said about her wasn’t strictly wrong and why it was uncomfortable for people to think she was better than she was or that she could somehow be better than she was. At least when it came to putting others first. “And I guess you can assume I’m better than I am, but you’re wrong. So it might be better to quit while you’re ahead.”
"I mean you're no saint," Eleanor answered back, almost smirking. "But neither am I. And of course you're looking out for yourself, Marina. No one else was. Trust me, I get that. But if I left here and ten minutes later I called you saying I needed you, and you weren't already passed out from the wine, you'd be there. Grumbling, maybe. Probably. You'd still show up."
She gave Marina a shrug. "You don't need to care about everyone and everything." That was definitely not who she was. "But to suggest that you don't care at all is a lie, or that you needed some brainwashing spell to make you care, when you cared enough to go through that in the first place."
Eleanor sighed, reaching for the wine bottle to pour herself another glass, getting about halfway before the bottle was empty. She took a long drink before she added, "Look, you don't need to say anything, because I know you probably hate this entire conversation. But I'm not going to let some woman who was clearly never good enough for you make my friend feel like you're not good enough or that you don't deserve to be happy or to find what it was you were looking for with her."
She had a feeling ‘no saint’ was putting it lightly. Not that she was mad about it. She wasn’t going to go back in time and change anything she’d done. She wasn’t that sorry about. Maybe she’d have gone back and slapped some sense into herself about Anna, but maybe that was something she had to learn on her own, too.
“I’m definitely not caring about everyone and everything. Pretty sure the magic spell version of me did enough of that.” She made a face to express exactly how she felt about that. She hugged people. It was like that time with the weird Vallo stuff when she was just out there hugging people. Gross.
The rest of it? Well, she didn’t really want to respond to because she didn’t know how to respond. It just felt like a lot and she was pretty sure this was the place to exit the conversation. She glanced at the TV to see what was happening. “When did we get to Halloween?” Cause everyone was in costumes. “What the fuck is Bethenny even dressed as?”
Eleanor turned her attention back to the television, recognizing the cue that Marina was done and accepting it. Besides, Real Housewives proved a viable distraction. "A roller girl? The blonde is… something." If Bethenny wasn't talking, she wouldn't have actually recognized her.
“It’s definitely something for sure. I don’t think I’d tell her the blonde worked for her. At least not that shade.” The purple, curly wig that Jill was wearing was also something. And Bobby was Napoleon??? Marina wasn’t sure. And LuAnn was in some Native American outfit? She always mentioned her being part Native American.
“Ew. There’s a cash bar. That’s when you need magic. You could just always have a drink and never think about paying for it. Or you can put the bartender to sleep and steal something. Whatever costs the most.” Would it probably cost them their job? Eh. She wasn’t worried about that.
"Yeah some of us don't have magic," Eleanor pointed out. "And have to do things the boring way. Or we just raid our friend's bar at every opportunity."
Though she had brought the wine tonight.
“Maybe you should know someone with magic, then.” But she had experience doing things the “boring” way, too. “Or you need to be better at stealing.” She snorted softly. She wasn’t sure how much of her skills she’d kept now that she did have magic on her side, though.
“You’re not very good at stealing my alcohol right now.”
"I'm about to steal the rest of your glass if you don't finish it," Eleanor replied back, smiling innocently, the sort of smile that came with splitting two bottles of wine. "Sure, I brought it but it's yours because I gave it to you."
She nodded, because that was correct.
“I will put you to sleep if you touch my glass.” Which was probably the truth, but also probably not. But just to make a point, she drank some of her wine, very nearly all of it, It was probably a bad idea, but she was making a serious point. Or...a not really serious point, but...it was hers.
“I guess you’re sleeping over again?”
"I think it's a tradition now," Eleanor confirmed. "Especially if you put me to sleep… hopefully like… just to sleep…" Yeah, maybe she had drank the last of that wine a little too fast, because it snuck up on her and suddenly walking to the elevator and making it to her room seemed like too much effort, really.
However, Marina never really seemed to mind. Which suggested to her that she actually enjoyed her company because she didn't really protest it. Which was almost as good as being told that, when it came to Marina.
Marina nodded. It was. FB was used to her by now and had sometimes slept on Eleanor, but usually he was in her bed or wherever she was sleeping unless she shut him out...like that time he’d vomited in her bed. But she didn’t talk about that. Except to him sometimes. She was starting to feel the wine a little more, but went ahead and finished what she had. “Well, I guess we should get to sleep.”
Given that Eleanor was already halfway laying on the couch facing toward Marina from the corner, she asked, "Are you going to your room or do you need me to move or are you just going to join me here?" All three seemed like valid options especially the two that didn't involve moving.
“It is a whole L, Eleanor.” She considered sleeping on one side of the couch, but she was pretty sure she would regret it in the morning and she also needed to pee. Peeing was annoying, but at least she hadn’t worn anything overly complicated like the first time. She had learned from that. “I have to pee,” she announced. “So I’ll see you tomorrow if you’re still here when I wake up.”
Eleanor laughed and shook her head. "Thanks for keeping me updated, hot stuff." And then she made herself comfortable, which was no trouble at all. The wine had certainly helped with that.