Log: Kylo Ren and Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader WHO: Kylo Ren and Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader WHAT: Grandfather and grandson discuss family and the future WHEN: Early September immediately after this thread WHERE: Physical Cottage WARNINGS: Sith Family Violence isn't just a metal band name (discussed rather than depicted); mental illness (blatantly depicted but not an exact match for a DSM diagnosis); and same warnings apply to the above link. Also, this log discusses slavery throughout.
Anakin had never visited Kylo's new home before, but the need to speak in person instead of on the network had provided a reason. The two of them had been talking about family and Anakin had realized the extent that Kylo lacked knowledge of his own family. It made sense; Kylo's mother had hidden her biological father's identity from Kylo for so long, and she might not have known much herself about Anakin's history, unlike the Leia here. But realizing this had put Anakin in the position of either refusing to share, or opening up very painful memories… and right now, pain kept bringing him closer to his future self.
He had already found that happening in the conversation leading up to this visit. It wasn't an experience that he could clearly describe, but someone else might have said that for a time, Vader took over. He had harmed his own grandson from afar, using the physical threat of further violence as a warning instead of using words. As a precaution against himself, he had left his lightsaber behind in the mansion— not that he couldn't do harm without it, but at least that removed a particularly damaging option. He fully expected that sharing anything of his past would be a risk for both him and Kylo. It was more difficult to communicate about something so personal through the network, and that distance alone wouldn't have guaranteed Kylo's safety. Face-to-face would make it easier for Kylo to see if there was a threat and counter it.
"I'm not sure where to start," Anakin said when they had finished the formalities and found a place to talk.
One of the things Kylo had picked up from Eliot, for better or for worse, was the tendency to have a drink in hand for every occasion. It wasn't something he'd done at home. Snoke wouldn't have encouraged it, for beginners, but Kylo was beginning to recognize just how many things he did at home that he didn't do here, and vice versa. Part of him was wondering whether or not he missed the things at home - a slightly traitorous thought - but they didn't exactly fit his life here either. He'd poured himself a drink, offered his grandfather one, and was grateful for the various nooks and crannies the cottage offered.
There was something about bringing his family into the cottage that seemed to soften the edges a little. But that seemed to be the effect of the cottage in general on Kylo's life. Between Eliot, who had from the very first moment they'd arrived in Tumbleweed welcomed Kylo here, and Petunia who seemed to accept everyone, and even Q and Margo in their own way - Kylo didn't really miss his quarters on the Finalizer.
Millicent had followed them into the room and now popped up into Kylo's lap, circled and made herself at home even as Kylo raised an eyebrow at her.
"I doubt anything you say will be a repeat," he looked over at his grandfather, his fingers moving over the outside of the goblet he held. He'd already explained how little his parents had told him. Sometimes he wondered how much his mother even had known. His grandfather said the Leia here had a diary - something he could maybe follow up on - but if his mother had such a thing in his galaxy, she certainly had never said. That was typical however. He buried his fingers in Millicent's fur, a sort of restlessness soothed slightly by soft orange fur. "You were from Tatooine originally, yes?"
The drink that Kylo had given Anakin sat mostly untouched since he was having enough trouble with himself without adding anything that could alter him further. Kylo had Millicent's fur; Anakin had his fingers shoved into his own hair as he leaned over. Thinking about Tatooine was never easy.
"More or less. I was born somewhere in the Outer Rim, and I was very small when we were brought to Tatooine by…" He had to take a hand out of his hair so he could clench it into a fist. His voice grew rough with hatred. "By our master, Gardulla the Hutt."
Kylo had been told Tatooine by his Uncle, which he supposed was more or less accurate here. If his grandfather didn't remember precisely where then likely it hadn't been a fact of significant influence on him. That he'd been owned by Hutts however, seemed more relevant, and the dislike and anger his grandfather felt about the fact was apparent, even without tapping into the Force. The truth was, he didn't know exactly what to say. He had no practical experience with slavery, having never been one, nor having ever particularly been around them. And the anger made it tricky to navigate. Kylo wasn't the best at navigating emotions even on the best of days. Probably, Eliot would have known what to do.
He took a drink from the goblet and put it to the side, his attention on his grandfather and Millicent. "You and your mother, great-grandmother I guess," Kylo figured that was the safest, if not exactly safe, to move from Hutts to the topic that had gotten them into this whole conversation.
"Yes. Her name… her name was Shmi. Shmi Skywalker." It had only been a few years now since he lost her. Failed her. "That's where we had to live." He knew his mother would never have lived with him on Tatooine by choice; it was too harsh and unforgiving of creatures who weren't made for it. You only lived on Tatooine if you were the scum of the galaxy or unable to escape elsewhere. "When Gardulla lost us to Watto, we moved from her palace to other quarters, but we were still stuck there. Transmitters."
"Shmi Skywalker," Kylo repeated, his mind racing. He hadn't heard the name before from either Leia or Luke. If they'd known, and it seemed more likely Luke might have known than Leia, they hadn't mentioned it. Sometimes Kylo wondered how much Luke did know that he had never said, or what Leia had managed to make him promise in the meantime. He knew some of the next bit, at least the part that Anakin would be taken into the Jedi Order, but the details were muddy to say the least.
Kylo wrapped his fingers into Millicent's fur, uncertain whether he should ask or just let his grandfather take hold of the conversation. It was entirely unlike any interrogation. An interrogation would have been ten times easier because he could have simply demanded the knowledge, but that seemed unlikely to work here. Plus, Kylo didn't particularly favor testing what he'd said to Eliot about being able to withstand a full-fledged Force choke from his grandfather.
"What was she like?" He finally asked. That seemed maybe safer than what happened to her. Tatooine, slave, it seemed unlikely to bode particularly well.
"She was my mother." Anakin's throat had gone dry and he reached for the drink. It took a few gulps to make himself continue. "She was… she was kind, to everyone. Even our masters, and she wasn't faking it just to… to keep from displeasing them. She taught me to protect and care for others."
He set his glass down hard and put his face in his hands. It was hardly the image Kylo must have had of his grandfather, but before Mustafar, Anakin had always had strong displays of many emotions besides anger… when it was safe to, of course. Not around the majority of the Jedi, who required suppression of what he wasn't allowed to even feel much less show, but around his wife or Ahsoka or his men, yes.
Kylo shifted, and Millicent moved with him, her claws digging into his knees to express her displeasure with his movement. This held him in place for a moment, because truly he didn't know what to do. He'd asked the question, and maybe he shouldn't have. He didn't really intend to have his Grandfather go through something so painful, particularly when it felt as if painful was something that his grandfather was having to deal with a lot recently.
Vader, in some ways, had been easier. Kylo knew how to respond to demands, and he knew what was expected of him as an Apprentice - maybe not as Vader's apprentice but still. And while Eliot might not be okay with the Force choking, Kylo understood how to navigate that better. Well, probably. He had been snarky enough to end up with it in the first place, but it was easier to know what to do with that than this. Saying that she seemed like a really neat person sounded weak and lame. Asking what happened to her wasn't going to improve things more than likely. And while Kylo couldn't exactly relate with his own parents… exactly. That maybe didn't matter here.
"You must miss her," he finally said. Because whatever happened to her at home, she wasn't here now. And despite the fact that Kylo might not have the best relationship with his own parents, it didn't mean there weren't times when an ache to be held didn't pierce through. Maybe less with Eliot. Or maybe Eliot had simply been the reason he started admitting that he wanted it in the first place.
"Yes. She would… she'd be so disappointed… in me…"
That thought, of how his mom's face would look or what she would say if she saw what her son had turned into, was more than Anakin could stand. After drawing a few shuddering breaths, he straightened up in his seat. Though his face was still wet with tears, he had stopped crying fresh ones. His eyes didn't change immediately, but his demeanor had. He wasn't the grieving, guilt-ridden youth anymore but the man who still burned with rage over her death yet was outwardly cold and controlled… for the moment, at least. That rage could clearly be released if he chose to. He fixed an unblinking stare on Kylo, eyes shifting to yellow as he spoke.
"Her life ended in pain," Vader said, "so I visited the same upon all who had heard her screams."
Millicent, reacting to who knew what, jumped off of Kylo's lap and headed for another room leaving him empty handed and without anything to immediately split his focus. He frowned slightly, and looked up at his Grandfather. He knew something of what parental disappointment tasted like, but he claimed to be less bothered by it than he saw on his Grandfather's face (was he really less bothered by it though?).
"That's not an unreasonable response," he offered. "I might have the done same in your shoes." Probably would have considering he'd gone after villages for less reason than that. There was always the possibility, albeit a small possibility, that she could show up here. However it didn't seem that would be helpful to bring up at this particular moment.
"I'm sorry," he offered awkwardly.
Vader broke his stare when the cat momentarily distracted them. He didn't settle back comfortably into his seat; that would be too casual and informal. "It surprised me that your grandmother didn't turn me away when I told her what I'd done. The Jedi never knew, only her and my master. Your uncle was raised by the son of my mother's widower, in the very homestead where I buried my mother. I doubt he was ever told about her."
He stood and walked over to the nearest window and stood with his arms crossed. It wasn't a starship's view, of course, but considering what they were discussing, he preferred to look to the distance instead of up close.
"If you ever have reason to go to Tatooine, they are called the Sand People, or Tuskens."
"I've heard the term," Kylo said softly. And he had heard them mentioned from his Uncle. While Luke might not speak of Tatooine frequently, he had grown up there and as a part of that, he had mentioned from time to time various pieces of that life. He hadn't quite realized that the Aunt and Uncle that Luke had known weren't his birth relatives.
"He may have known more than he spoke of. He occasionally shared bits of growing up on Tatooine, but nothing that was outside of his own experience. It seems that his Aunt and Uncle weren't much keen on speaking of his father, so it wouldn't surprise me if he hadn't been told."
Kylo stood up too, reaching for the drink and taking a sip of it. "They killed your mother," he shrugged. "Killing them wasn't an unreasonable justice. Particularly someplace like Tatooine where actual justice is so very far away."
"They have no claim to such familial terms," Vader said, then corrected himself as he recalled, "had. There was no blood between them and my son. I'm surprised that they accepted the task of raising him." He shoved down memories of what the young Owen and Beru had been like when Anakin met them— good people, certainly fond enough of Shmi to raise her grandson. It made little practical sense, and now they were dead for crossing the Empire, simple as that. They were still young and alive to Anakin, but not the older Vader's memories.
He turned from the window as Kylo went for the drink. "If your First Order would succeed and be superior to the Empire, it can neither tolerate nor replicate Tatooine's crimes. You must bring justice to the Outer Rim, and eliminate slavery throughout your new Order."
Vader had failed at that. The Emperor was beyond tolerant of slavery, viewing it as both necessary and desirable, especially as punishment of species or individuals that had attempted to thwart the Emperor's will. If Vader had attempted to thwart that will himself, his own slavery to the Emperor would have worsened… or ended, likely in his own death. The needs of others would never be more important than his own life. Until he could be more sure of victory, with Luke by his side, he wouldn't attempt a large scale effort freeing slaves of the Empire. When their freedom happened to serve as a punishment of those slavers who somehow failed in the Emperor's eyes, however, he could offer more justification than simply his past haunting him. Vader wasn't supposed to have a past before the armor, except when the Emperor used that past against him.
Kylo didn't know much about the what or why. Really neither Leia nor Luke had given him a lot of information about their childhoods. In retrospect, he realized that the version he'd gotten had been highly sanitized, and that there had been a reason that they hadn't given much information. The more they gave the more they would have had to actually lie about. Omission was an easier lie than outright lies.
Slavery though, it was something Kylo didn't know much about, other than to know that it happened. Of course it happened. He'd seen it, and really, if he were being perfectly honest, Hux's stormtrooper training program had elements of slavery in it. But Kylo had never really spent much time thinking about Hux's program other than to chide him when it didn't work. Justice through the Outer Rim felt like an impossible task, particularly when they weren't particularly in control of any portion of the galaxy. Most of the rabble on the Outer Rim planets were just that, rabble… At least in Kylo's opinion. But even as that dismissal floated through his mind he realized that his Grandfather had been part of that rabble once. It pulled him into a pause.
"We seek order and safety - real freedom - throughout the galaxy," he said, suppressing the uncertainty of whether that was what everyone in the First Order really wanted. Truthfully, every single one of the stormtroopers had been in a much worse situation before they were brought into work and fight for the glory of the First Order. And they weren't really slaves. They were given opportunities and eventually others would take their place and they could retire. Probably. "As we gain control, we can do precisely that."
Grandfather and grandson had not yet discussed specifics of the First Order's methods and tactics, and there was little either could do while stuck here in Texas. Still, Vader hoped to impart some of his knowledge and experience. Perhaps Kylo would have more success if he learned from Vader. Certainly Kylo had been clear about desiring to learn more about the dark side, but there were many aspects of his education that Vader could assist with. "I can sense an uncertainty. Is it about my words, or something else?"
Kylo considered for a moment. He didn't want to be Force choked again, for starters. Usually he was the one with the temper that decided to do that to people, and that was far and away the way that he preferred it, but there was also this weirdness in everything they were talking about. This sort of back and forth between Anakin Skywalker, who wasn't Vader, and Vader who was, obviously, Vader, and the Dark Side, or something that wasn't exactly the Jedi, but also wasn't really Dark Side either, and all of it put Kylo on edge. Add it to the part where some part of him wasn't certain exactly what he wanted in this particular moment - outside of he did want to keep Eliot and you had a good deal of uncertainty.
Uncertainty wasn't comfortable, and being questioned about it was even less so. His eyes flickered down and he stood up too. "I don't know how Snoke feels about slavery. It's never been mentioned, outside of the fact that I know it still happens. I'm just thinking about what you said, and seeing the truth of it, but uncertainty about how those who are leading, like Snoke might feel."
Luckily for Kylo, Vader wasn't (yet?) in a rage, though he did narrow his eyes. "Slavery is that accustomed or unimportant to him, perhaps. Will you make it a priority of yours?" The underlying threat in his words was more obvious in the tension wound through the Force than in his actual tone.
"Yeah," Kylo said immediately, but there was a look in his eyes that suggested that it wasn't just a simple statement. He would pay attention to what his Grandfather was asking, because he was realizing that it was important to the family history in a way he simply hadn't really been aware of before. "I will. A safe galaxy with order ought not to have any need for slavery."
"Thank you." It was a flicker of the old Anakin again; Vader wasn't one to express that. "There is never a 'need' for slavery. There are other ways."
Kylo wondered what Hux would say to this. He suspected that Hux would find there to be some necessity for gathering his soldiers, on the other hand - ought they not to want to serve in the First Order as they realized how glorious it would be? And even as he was thinking of that, he knew almost without asking what Eliot might say. Eliot would say the same as his Grandfather just had, he was certain of it.
"It is for the good of the galaxy," Kylo responded seriously, his brows furrowing together. "I will see to it."
Vader nodded once to that. On a less Vader-like impulse, he reached a hand out to grip Kylo's shoulder. "It may set you against your allies. You must be prepared for that."
Kylo glanced at the hand and then up into his Grandfather's eyes. There was certainly a different look to him when he was Vader. Kylo wasn't certain he recognized it in himself, and that led to some questions that he wasn't going to spend time answering right now. "I've never been afraid to do what needs to be done," he shook his head. If it were Hux? His brain asked him helpfully, and he shook his head. "It is important to you. I promise to seek justice there."
Vader looked like he still had some doubts, and he kept his hand on Kylo's shoulder. "Is it important to you? You are the descendent of slaves." Kylo's commitment to honoring a promise wasn't in question, but the personal significance it held for him was.
Kylo hadn't entirely considered that. It felt odd when he considered that he grew up believing himself a Prince of Alderaan even if it had never been something that his mother had truly embraced in her identity. Alderaan might no longer exist, but the belief that had been his lineage had been there nonetheless. To be instead the grandson of a slave, wasn't exactly the brightest of stars, yet - his grandfather had risen to greatness, as had Kylo himself.
"It is," he said, and he meant it.
"Let that be my legacy, then— you will do what I could not." Vader released Kylo's shoulder and turned back to the window, clasping his hands behind his back. "Do you have further questions?"
There was a thrill with the statement, the realization that he was doing something his Grandfather wanted to have been able to do and hadn't been able to. And after all, hadn't that always been what Kylo wanted - to finish what his Grandfather had been unable to finish? That this was a piece of it he hadn't truly been aware of -- it wasn't exactly his fault. It wasn't as if anyone had been there to tell him.
"No, I … not now," he straightened his shoulders. "I won't let you down."
"See that you don't. I won't be there to guide you." Vader drew a breath and closed his eyes. "We're done, then. I'll leave you to your… 'boyfriend'." The word sounded strange to him, but it was what Kylo had called Eliot.
That was a sobering thought, but also the reality of home compared to this place. It was the benefit of learning in this place and being able to take it home with him. Hopefully. Kylo wasn't even certain it worked that way, but he could pretend that it would. He could pretend a lot of things, really.
"All right," he agreed. He wasn't certain Eliot was going to love that he had his Grandfather here, but at the same time he'd meant what he said about not ignoring his grandfather. He was, after all, family and the only family who seemed to begin to understand him. "Perhaps I can learn some more later," he suggested. "So that I will be better prepared when I return…?"
"Indeed, you have much to learn to prepare you."
After drawing another breath, Anakin opened his blue eyes. He was a little shaky, unsettled, and his stiff posture had loosened into almost a slump. "I'm… I'll go now," he said awkwardly. He gave Kylo a quick nod and started back towards the front door, speaking without facing Kylo, "I'm sorry I hurt you."
Kylo half felt as if he should invite him to stay for longer, but then it also half seemed as if maybe he was done. Uncertain, he found himself frozen over making the invitation and instead left just nodding to what his Grandfather had said. On the one hand he had endured worse, but on the other Eliot had been incredibly upset by it. But he didn't know what to do in the face of an actual apology. Snoke had never offered one.
He swallowed and shrugged an acceptance of the apology. "It's all right. I was being a smart ass." He had been being disrespectful, really.
Anakin's voice was heavy and sad as he replied, "It wasn't all right, not at all. I hope you'll be able to see that. But I'm not ready to tell you…" he stopped that particular thought abruptly. "You're my grandson, not some incompetent officer or slaver or anyone who deserves it. I shouldn't treat you as poorly as our masters have treated us. You didn't deserve that."
Kylo nodded, a sense of satisfaction that he'd be able to tell Eliot his grandfather apologised. If it came up again, which Kylo didn't really have any intention of doing. But still, it did matter a bit, even if… "I won't hold it against you," he offered with a small smile. "I'm still glad to have the opportunity to know you here."
"We wouldn't get this opportunity otherwise." Anakin almost said that Kylo was more forgiving than himself, but that wasn't quite true; Anakin, and later Vader, had experienced years of mistreatment, and while it hadn't been forgiven exactly, it was still something that continued to be endured. And he almost said that he didn't deserve Kylo's forgiveness, but he couldn't have denied how much he was relieved by it despite how guilty he still felt. "Good night, Kylo."