log: The Debate Who: Cecil Palmer (moderator), Crowley, Steve Rogers, Asala Adaar, Alison Hendrix, & Deadpool When: July 10, Debate Day Where: Mess Hall (and broadcast over the radio network) What: Cecil asks the candidates a series of questions in pairs, allowing each candidate a chance to challenge each opponent on two questions. Warnings: It's kind of long? But in a good way!
"The evening air is hot and humid, but we can't feel any of it, locked away as we are deep beneath the earth, under piles of rocks and dirt and irradiated topsoil and the bones of an ancient time that we all call, for some reason, a mountain. Welcome to Mount Weather.
"My name is Cecil Palmer and I will be moderating tonight's debate between the five candidates running for positions on the community Council. Each candidate will be paired off in sequence, giving all of them a chance to grapple with the tough questions that will help us choose our newly elected overlords. … I've been handed a note asking me to clarify that 'overlords' is not the preferred nomenclature for this event.
"I will ask each pair of candidates two questions. They will have three minutes to respond to each question, and will trade off as to who goes first. Please note that as a trusted radio host for [illegible sound] years, I am committed to leading an impartial debate so that we can best scrutinize these future leaders and these leaders of the future. The candidates have been asked to answer the questions fully and refrain from cheap, personal attacks. Candidates will be given an opportunity to make such personal attacks, as well as cudgels and rudimentary shields, after the debate. … I've just been given another note. So many interruptions this evening… It appears that the post-debate melee and insult contest was never seriously on the schedule. Come on, people. Let's try to be clearer about which ideas are just brainstorming and which ones make it to the final list.
"Tonight, we will hear from Crowley, King of Hell; Steve Rogers, also known as Captain America; Deadpool, the merc with a mouth; Alison Hendrix, Queen of Suburbia (am I pronouncing that right?); and Asala Adaar, the Herald of Andraste. We'll start with Crowley and Alison."
Crowley & Alison
Is it better to rule through fear and intimidation, or shallow demagoguery and false populism?
Crowley: "Hello, Cecil, and hello, Mount Weather. Thanks for having us-- I've been wondering how my voice would sound on radio. Nice, isn't it? And I'm so glad my suggestion that you moderate a debate has borne fruit. More good ideas where that came from, of course. Such a shame about that post-debate melee, but we can't have it all.
"So, to answer your question. 'Shallow' and 'false' are the keywords there, I'd say. I don't like to be shallow or false, and when I do apply a bit of demagoguery, I like a deeper purpose to it. You don't just stir emotions to go nowhere. Fear and intimidation absolutely are my style. There's honesty in them-- and an art, too. They're a large part of how I rule Hell, but they aren't everything. They're wielded for particular results. If someone's in a constant state of fear, they're useless, just blubbering wrecks. You put the fear of consequences in them, though, and that's quite a motivation to get things done.
"We're the outsiders here and it's up to your councilors to show that we'll never be pushed around and taken advantage of; we will have our wants met. And you can count on me to not be afraid or get intimidated."
Alison: "Hello, Mount Weather, and thank you, Cecil, for moderating this debate. Like my competitor, I think it's important to note that you said 'shallow' and 'false.' I don't want to act as if I'm a leader for the people just to gain their vote, I want to be a leader for the people. And that's why I think it matters when I say: intimidating to who? To our citizens? The only fear I want to inspire is the kind felt by an outsider looking at the strength of a united community. If we stand together, if we tell whoever brought us here and all of those outside threats that we aren't just unbreakable but even creating a community where we can be happy, no one will mess with us.
"I want to intimidate those who threaten us. I want to crush those who would do us harm. I want Mount Weather to be feared for its unity, and anyone who challenges that way of life will regret it."
How would you react to an outbreak of throat spiders here in Mount Weather?
Alison: "I ... [Long, awkward silence.] Well. We'd … have to … have medical deal with it. Promptly. Immediately. I don't know what a throat spider is, but — but I can ensure you we have highly-trained professionals in medical who will do their best work to deal with the threat and keep it from spreading to our loved ones, our children. Once the threat's isolated, then we eradicate it. We can't be kind to throat spiders."
Crowley: "[With considerable amusement over Alison's reaction] Sounds nasty. I'd react calmly, of course. Quarantine the threat; extermination or banishment if it comes to it. 'Outbreak' never means something good, does it? There's never an outbreak of puppies and kittens."
Cecil: "Actually, Crowley, the '93 puppy outbreak in Night Vale was one of the most harrowing on record. As moderator, it's my job to make sure the electorate is properly informed."
Crowley & Deadpool
Vampires or Aliens?
Deadpool:we should definitely lie about this one.lie??? i don’t even know what the honest answer is!i always hated this question in college.we didn’t go to college.i would’ve hated this question in college.
“Okay, that’s literally racism and I won’t stand for it.” He sits down, crosses his arms and refuses to elaborate further.
Crowley: "Racism? Speciesism, maybe. Let's see… I definitely preferred the Alien movies to Twilight, but then again, Interview with the Vampire... And we do have a bit of both here, don't we? I've met some very annoying vampires over the centuries, but never an alien, so I'll have to say aliens."
Why should the citizens of Mount Weather trust you to look out for their best interests, and not be afraid you will use your new position of power to pursue a personal agenda in governance?
Crowley: "If you vote for me to represent you, you're trusting me to look out for your best interests. That's something of a deal between us. I'd be failing my end of it if I didn't look out for you, and I wouldn't last long on the council after that. I've also been told many times that if I do pursue a personal agenda, I'll end up smited, in pieces, human, and other colorful threats. I'd like to stay intact. If you can't trust me, you can trust that I'll look out for myself, and in this case, that would mean looking out for you. It's in my best interests to look out for yours."
Deadpool: “Uhhh, I don’t really have a personal agenda? Unless you count wanting a rainbow-colored unicorn or something--” FUCK YEAH!!, “-- But as far as agendas go, I’m just here to shoot the guy who isn’t letting us have what we collectively want. But as your councilman.” that, was beautiful
Crowley & Steve
Good versus evil: true or false?
Crowley: "True. And very literally true as well, although I'm not so sure about in this particular universe. It's fundamental in most. It's what makes the world go 'round. Some people go on about shades of gray, but it's good versus evil end of the day. You're either going upstairs or downstairs in the end, not hovering around somewhere in-between. You pick a side, or have one destined for you. Sometimes you work with the other side to get something done. Sometimes people say you're leaning one or the other, but at your core, that's not the case. Boy Scout here probably understands that. And let me point out, I have a great deal of experience crossing the aisle. If I can get Heaven and Hell working together for even a little while, I can work wonders here."
Steve: "I think the key words there are for a little while. We're not looking for just a little while with this election, are we? We're looking for something with more permanency than that. But to answer the question - it's true, the idea of good versus evil has been a driving force for humanity for a very long time. It's pervasive in our culture, from religion to politics to the media and entertainment. No matter where you look, we're being told that someone is the good guy, someone's the bad guy. But I don't think it's that simple, I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think most people are evil. I think the idea of good and evil influences our decisions, our views on morality, how we see each other. Sometimes the concept - who is good and who is evil - isn't as clear as we think it should be. You forget that the other side thinks they're the good ones, and you're evil. So which one is actually true? That's why I think it can be much more nuanced than just two options, good and evil, with no middle ground. There's more to it."
Given the possibility of a hostile attack from our neighbors, colloquially referred to as the Grounders, are you more in favor of creating staggering defenses, or building up our para-military forces to the point that we can crush our enemies beneath our heels like yesterday's spinach casserole?
Steve: "Anyone who knows me knows that I'm not interested in crushing anyone just for the sake of crushing theirs. What I'm interested in, first and foremost, is attempting to solidify a truce between our people and them. Ideally, I'd like to see our people be able to work together and coexist peacefully, but I realize that may be out of reach. I know there is a lack of trust between our people and the Grounders from what happened here before, and I understand why. I don't think it benefits us to go to war with them, however. The best thing we can do, to protect ourselves and to ensure our own survival, is to concentrate on our defenses and on building positive relationships with the people who were here first, who see us as a threat. I want them to understand that we're not a threat, and we aren't here to destroy them. A strong military faction is, of course, a part of our defenses, because at the end of the day, we have a right to protect our own lives, but I'm not looking to start a war with thousands of people. That is only going to lead us down a dark road, regardless of the outcome."
Crowley: "And I'm a fan of overwhelming offensive power and superior firepower. From what I've heard about these Grounders, I think they'd respect that a lot more than some peace talks or a big show of defense. If we look cowering and weak, we look like easy pickings if they ever decide they want in this mountain. So we make sure our image is a powerful one. They probably aren't stupid enough to pick a fight they couldn't possibly win. They've shown they can't be trusted to uphold their end of a deal; why seek a truce and give them another chance to do it again? I'm not saying let's go out and slaughter them all, but let's make sure we can throw out the leftovers if that's what it comes to."
Crowley & Asala
Do you favor the emergence of a wage-based economy for the future of Mount Weather, or the persistence of the implied barter system already established?
Crowley: "Big fan of barter, but then again, big fan of a fixed currency as well. It makes things more standardized when you can say 'X' is worth 'Y', and there's still room for negotiation. Right now, it's all about barter. What would we use for wages if we had them and who would decide the values? Now, if you entrusted me to do it, I'm an excellent judge of value equivalencies and making the intangible quantifiable. I'm personally fine sticking with barter for my own personal business. For the overall economy, though, what do the people prefer, hmm? Do you want to be paid for your labor and have goods to spend your pay on, or are you just fine with scrounging up what you can and getting rations for the rest? I don't see a lot of pleasure in that. You deserve some choice in what you've got, and a chance to indulge."
Asala: "We're still such a small community that a money standard may only complicate things. As it is, we don't have many precious metals on hand to make currency out of to start with, and we've been getting along without it so far. Money corrupts and all that. Keeping a barter system makes it necessary for us to rely on each other and takes away the idea that having money is what makes you valuable. Every service here is somehow important to keep us cared for. Better to barter based on the worth of a service to each individual person than to assign arbitrary values. As it is, we don't have a wage gap. We don't have people with more 'important' jobs making more money, we have no equivalent to nobility, and it's because we don't have money. Why introduce that when it's not needed?
And as far as I know, no one outside Mount Weather uses money, either. If we ever reach out to trade, those systems will clash. We don't need more obstacles than we already have."
Who would you say is the most charismatic radio operator currently employed in our community facilities?
Asala: "The one charismatic enough to moderate this debate, obviously."
Crowley: "Obviously. And I believe I answered that by suggesting you do this. Well done, Cecil."
Cecil: "Awww, you guys! Good answers. Seriously, well done."
Alison & Deadpool
What is your position on the concept of… community radio?
Alison: "It's vital, Cecil. As we all come together to make this place work, we all have to do our part, and I think a radio that best represents our interests is necessary to communicate information and give us the music that I think some of us so desperately need… and I think we should continue to foster it and encourage important news to be broadcasted during meals so that it can reach the maximum audience. We should also consider community projects -- have people volunteer to sing, or perhaps perform radio plays, and----"
Deadpool: “We should obviously have people doing covers of the songs we’re missing to make up the difference. I volunteer myself to run a BeeGees hour at 7pm sharp, every Friday.” Fine print: May be subject to rescheduling due council duties or a Pokemon Red tournament -- hee hee!what if we were to say 7pm blunt, every Friday?heh….
Should our government favor privacy over safety, or safety over freedom?
Deadpool: “I think we were already doing the safety over freedom thing when we had a werewolf locked up in prison just because he was a werewolf and all. It didn’t work very well, obviously... Wait I don’t get this question, those are two different scenarios? Shouldn’t it be freedom over safety or safety over freedom?” A long ‘hmmmmmmm’ as he internally debates with himself (literally). “Yeah sure, what I said before. People think they want privacy until something happens, then they’re wondering why the government didn’t know. Or we could have both. Because that’s always better.” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Alison: "My question is, why can't we have both? I think we present these things as opposites of one another, and they aren't. It's a … you know, it's a delicate balance. People need their privacy in order to feel safe. People need to feel allowed like they can keep their secrets, that they aren't going to have their lives scrutinized and micromanaged and observed, in order to feel like they're secure. I know that some secrets are dangerous ones, like … well, like some people hiding things until recently, but people have come forward to confess their secrets because they feel safe, and they feel like no one's making them do it. They feel like they're coming forward and they're going to be supported, instead of like their secrets are going to be torn from them. If we encourage an open and loving community, then privacy, safety, and freedom will go hand in hand, because we're all working together for the benefit of everyone else."
Alison & Steve
How do you intend to address the threat of the inevitable consolidation of power into the hands of an oligarchical structure that serves its own interests above those of the people it governs?
Alison: "I get that, I do, but I don't know how practical that is. I like to think that with the exception of our friend Crowley over there, and maybe Deadpool, maybe definitely Deadpool, we're all in this to serve. Look where we are. There's no reason to serve our own interests, not when there's nothing to be gained. Resources are limited, money is nonexistent, and our survival depends on cooperation. I have to think that anyone in power is making decisions for everyone, and that trying to be self-serving is only going to end in some kind of revolt. I mean … really, seriously, there's no power to grab here. Sorry, I'm taking this seriously, I am. I just wonder what Crowley thinks he can possibly do here to make us all his demon-minions."
Steve: "That's definitely a valid concern. I'm sure many of us have experience with that type of government. I know it's familiar to me. Many politicians in my world were more interested in their own wealth, which was closely tied to businesses that generated a lot of wealth, or they were only interested in representing their own values, to the detriment of other people's rights and freedoms.
"Moving forward, it will be important for council members to run for re-election after a certain amount of time. None of us should be allowed to stay in position indefinitely. This will keep all of us honest, and keep those in power from only representing their own issues, or what's important to them. By continuing to challenge us, we'll be able to ensure that we're here for you. And I think that transparency will be important, too. We need to communicate with the people we represent about what we're doing and why, and show them that we don't have any special interests that will cause harm to our greater purpose. By voting for myself and Asala, you’ll have representatives who aren’t self-serving. We’re interested in what’s best for all of us, not solely what’s best for a few people."
Who would win in a fight: a duck-sized horse, or a horse-sized duck hailing from the depths of a child's nightmare, redolent with blood-red plumage, the characteristic razor-sharp beaks of all waterfowl, and veins full of the venomous acid typical of most North American species?
Steve: "Well…” (Steve chuckles) “I think I'm going to go with the horse-sized duck. It sounds like it would be able to cause a lot of damage to the duck-sized horse in just one bite."
Alison: "You know, I'd be inclined to agree with Steve here, since this is obviously a leading question, but that makes me believe that you're hiding something about this duck-sized horse, namely the fact that it sounds just the right size to be a choking hazard to a horse-sized duck. As a mother of two who's had to deal with some pretty scary situations involving a toddler and a small object, I think that even if the horse-sized duck gobbled up that duck-sized horse, the horse-sized duck would be too greedy to chew the duck-sized horse the appropriate number of times, and would attempt to swallow it after that one bite. Even if this killed the tiny horse, it would also choke the large duck, and if the large duck dies, who is really the winner in that situation? No one.
"I think there's a lesson to be learned here: that just goes to show you, Cecil, that when you attack the little guy, the little guy will take you down with him. And I think that's a metaphor for this community, that no matter what problems we face -- no matter how big or how terrifying the threat -- if we go down, we will go down fighting, and we won't go easily."
Alison & Asala
How would you prefer the Council to reprimand those who vote incorrectly in the upcoming election?
Alison: "I like to think that we're all voting with our conscience and the community's best interests at heart, and no matter their choices that needs to be respected. Except people voting for Crowley and Deadpool, and then we may have to … well, they're not taking this very seriously, are they."
Asala: "I think the fact that they're voting for a losing candidate is punishment enough, don't you?"
As the only two openly-identified females running in the current election, where do you see the role of women in the coming age of our growing community, bearing in mind that many of your fellow citizens come from realities where gender inequalities are enmeshed in the fabric of their daily lives?
Asala: "I haven't noticed much difference in the way women and men are treated here. The Chancellor is female. The most vocal medical officer is female. Many of our computer experts are female, the native engineer is female, much of our military and our hunters are female. We may be from realities where men dominate society, but it's clearly not the case here. I'm no stranger to it myself, but I've also led an organization almost entirely commanded by women, based on a religion that exclusively places women in its upper ranks and worships a female prophet. That women are somehow less capable is a myth, and a childish one at that.
I see women in the same role we've always been in here: just as competent, just as passionate and just as vital to Mount Weather's survival as men. We're in a merit-based society. That's not to say that sexism won't play a part in some interpersonal relationships, but in matters of government? I can't recall it coming up in any significant way until you asked this question."
Alison: "[There's a tense silence, where Alison may just be grinding her teeth.] With all due respect to Inquisitor Adaar, I think that she's coming at this from a very different angle than I am. She is already a leader, part of our military, and she then proceeded to list all of the women in typically male-dominated professions, as if that's some sort of measure of how women are valued in this community — and honestly, Cecil, I don't think it is.
"What she's doing is comparing women to men, insisting that women are just as capable as men — and she's not wrong. However, she's also insisting that the worth of a woman, and the worth of a woman in this society, is measured by what masculine position she carries here at Mount Weather. I've seen this in practice more than once, and I've been on the receiving end of plenty of mockery for even trying to run, or because my campaign posters have been pink.
"But what about the rest? The mothers, the teachers, the caretakers. The ones who work in laundry and sewing, who work in the kitchens. The jobs that are coded as feminine, regardless of who does them. I don't think Inquisitor Adaar means to suggest that these women are somehow less worthy of respect, but she certainly manages to imply something very troubling: that the primary contributors to Mount Weather's well-being are the military and the government.
"Both Captain Rogers and Inquisitor Adaar are part of our military, and it's clear that that's the faction where they place the most importance. That that is where women are important, where in fact all people are the most important. However, this society doesn't function as a military complex. It needs to function as our home first, where we respect women not only in traditionally male roles, but in all roles. That we respect and value our caretakers, our teachers, the people doing our laundry and repairing our shoes, making our clothes and cooking our food, cleaning up our waste — male or female.
"So, as much as Inquisitor Adaar likes to insist that this is a merit-based society where sexism is irrelevant, I'd like to counter and say that no, sexism is inherently laced all through her response."
Deadpool & Steve
As you both hail from some mysterious dimension that others have identified as belonging to a comic book, what are your plans should the Mount Weather community be threatened by a supervillain seeking to conquer the remains of this world with an army of mind-controlled wildlife, or similar nefarious scheme?
Deadpool: “Okay look … I can’t die. He can. Now I know it probably means more if he says he’ll fight to the death for you guys if that were to happen because you know, he can die. But that’s kind of a weak argument when you think about it, since that makes him kind of unreliable. Not to shade you Cap, you’re my hero!” Cue fist bump and swooning. “ANYWAY” -- fuck, what was our point?wait, we actually make points??? “I’d stop said super villain by laying out my three part plan of ultimate success, starting at points K, G and G2.” oh oh, this is gonna be good. “---Katanas, guns and grenades.” Deadpool claps once, like he’s just unveiled the secrets of the universe to everyone, and then rests smugly against the podium. He killed it.
Steve: "Uh, thank you, Deadpool, that's very kind of you to say." (Steve pauses.) "Well, first, we'd need a plan of action. We can't go after this hypothetical supervillain in chaos and disorganization. I'd take a look at the skills we have present here in our population, and use them to our advantage. We have people who know the land better than most, we have people who can fly, people who can do magic, people who can go invisible… I would use our abilities to our advantage, to gain knowledge and insight into what the supervillain was planning, so we could gain leverage in the fight. We'd work as a team to discover the enemy's weaknesses and to fight back, because we're stronger together than we would ever be on our own. I think that's something we've all learned in the months we've been living together here, through fighting the demon and stopping the werewolf. One person can only do so much, but together, we're capable of great feats.
And Deadpool's right, if it came down to it, I wouldn't hesitate to pay the price for ensuring the safety of everyone here. I've done it before, and I would do it again in a heartbeat."
By what metric do you measure the worth of a person or person-like thing?
Steve: "I don't think there's a way to measure someone's worth in this world. Every life has worth, every life is significant. I'm not worth more than the next person, just because I have a title and a flashy shield. Every person brings something unique to the world and to the lives of the people around them. They don't need to be famous to be special to someone."
Asala: (Adaar breaks into a cheerful rendition of "Sera Was Never")
Do you favor strong, open diplomatic channels with our neighbors, or a more isolationist foreign policy?
Asala: "I understand the history Mount Weather has with the Grounders is complicated at best. If it's necessary, of course I support a friendly diplomatic relationship with them. As it is, it's safest for everyone if we just keep to ourselves for now."
Deadpool: “You know how sometimes you have to go to work with certain hairy grumpy short dudes that you don’t like, but for the good of everyone you do it everyday anyway? Well …. I think that says everything about me, honestly. Open stuff. Doesn’t isolationist just sound so boring? Oh my goodness look at that bird over there, it’s such a neat color!” we’ve lost. WE’VE LOST. “Okay look the point is, you get tired of seeing the same people all the time. Why not talk to your neighbors, even if they decide to hide ¾ of their face behind a fence for your entire life.”
Steve & Asala
In a democratic republic, the people choose their leaders, such as occurs now, with the assumption that the voices of the many will be reflected in policy; do you feel the voices of the few have a place in such a system and, if so, how do you intend to balance those with the implicit assumption of that system?
Steve: "I absolutely think the voices of the few have a place here. The point of a democracy is that everyone has a voice. It doesn't matter what gender someone is, what ethnicity - or even whether or not they're human, as the case now is. Everyone gets a chance to vote for who they believe will do the best job on the council. No one should receive a position of power just because… they're more wealthy, or because it ran in their family and it was passed down to them, whatever the case may be. I know some people are disenfranchised, and I get that. So was I. But it's even more important for you to continue standing up for what is important to you. Personally, if we win, I want those who didn't vote for us to continue to talk to us about what they want to see done around here, and about what's important to them. I don't want them to ever feel like I don't care, because I do care, about what everyone has to say. And I'll do my best to represent them as well. It wouldn't be right for us to give the voices of the many exactly what they want and ignore the voices of the few at the same time. As leaders, we should listen to and work with both sides. This job will, undoubtedly, involve compromise. We can't give everyone what they want, all of the time, and I hope that people understand that. We're here to do what's best for all of us, not just a few people. We intend to do everything we can do make this a better, safer place for us all to live. This isn't about one side or the other. This is about all of us."
Asala: "I don't have much to add to what Steve's said, because it's exactly why we decided to run together in the first place. We know the risks. We know the burden of leadership, and we know that we can't possibly make everyone happy. But we will listen.
As Alison demonstrated earlier in this debate, we do have our blind spots, and that's not something we can ignore. Steve and I are both military, and we're aware that that presents some problems. We mean well, but by winning, we want to take care of Mount Weather, not take away the voices of other factions. We fully intend to involve a representative from the other major factions -- especially those in skilled but often discounted, like civilian services -- in the issues that we ultimately take into the Council.
We're running to be on a Council for all of Mount Weather, but the Pod People are our own culture and our own community separate from the Sky People. I'm not saying we have to stand on different sides of a line, but some of our issues are unique, and we have a large diversity in our experiences and our concerns. Ultimately, decisions will be made by the Council, but allowing people below us in the chain of command to feel empowered to advocate for themselves is still important to us."
Given how close of a connection the two of you seem to have, considering that you're running as a combined ticket, rather like a set of conjoined twins who share no anatomical connections, who do you think would win if you were pitted together in a fight to the death?
Asala: (casual and clearly friendly) "Oh, definitely me. Sorry, Steve."
Steve: (said with a lot of fondness) “Asala, absolutely. No contest.”
"Thank you all for attending tonight's debate. I've been informed that Mount Weather does not currently possess thought-scanning satellites and that, even if it did have such things, they would likely be ineffective at penetrating our… 'mountain' home. For those of you listening to this broadcast, I made liberal use of finger-quotes just now, as I'm sure you all know why. Therefore, arrangements have been made for you to cast your ballots by hand. Stay tuned for more details about when and where to cast your vote for the next leaders of Mount Weather.
"But for now, the candidates will make themselves available for an informal question and answer session with the audience. As you know, the most effective way to conduct exercises such as this is to hurl your questions in unison while brandishing weapons and filling the air with vitriol and spite, but we kindly ask that you instead ask your questions in an orderly manner so that the candidates can answer them all.
And, for the first time, this is me saying, goodnight, Mount Weather. Goodnight."