InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Make me say things!"

arbre_rieur (arbre_rieur) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-09-02 22:10:00

Entry tags:

char: prometheus, creator: james robinson, publisher: dc comics, title: cry for justice

James Robinson on Prometheus
From the text section of the latest Cry for Justice issue, Robinson muses on the character Prometheus...

(Post a new comment)

(Anonymous)
2009-09-03 05:20 am UTC (link)

"In the time since then however, Prometheus hasn't fared well as a villain, being reduced to someone far less noteworthy in his subsequent encounters with DC's heroes."

From a guy who took out the nearly entire Justice League by himself, and beat Batman unconscious in their first hand-to-hand encounter, to someone who got punked by Green Arrow and then Hush. ...yeah, "hasn't fared well" is putting it mildly. Glad to see they're going to run getting back some of the credit he re-earned in Birds of Prey.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	jlbarnett 2009-09-03 09:18 pm UTC (link)
	he's a gimmick villain. Sorry, gimmick villains should always fare worse each time, because the hero knows their tricks. Prometheus didn't beat Batman, the programming in his head did. Fuck with the programming and he's nothing. You want to make him impressive use the CD's as training manuals where his muscles learn the movements so he can pull them off without the CDs. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	okkult3000 2009-09-03 05:34 am UTC (link)
	I never bought Prometheus as an awesome villain. He's just an updated version of Wrath, the "anti-Batman" who appeared once in the '80s, died, and was erased by the Crisis. He's got no motivation beyond "be bad." He took out the whole JLA in his first appearance, an epic act of Sue-ery. Plus, he looks ridiculous. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-09-03 07:15 am UTC (link)
	This. (Reply to this) (Parent)

jarodrussell
2009-09-03 03:21 pm UTC (link)

I did, at one time, buy Prometheus as an awesome villain. I'll tell you why: because he was a born and raised bad guy. He wasn't someone with a bad home life in the bad part of town who fell in with the wrong crowds, he wasn't some average joe whose life took a wrong turn, he wasn't a scientist who turned to crime because his grant ran out...he was a criminal from birth who really had no idea how to do anything else, or at least no inclination how to want to do anything else. That, more than anything, is what made me accept him as the "anti-Batman" character. He lived to be a villain the way Batman lives to be a hero, it was an all-encompassing lifestyle choice that existed beyond the death of his parents.

He's not a character you can take too seriously. I mean he's the kind of guy who would check "villain" for his ethnicity on a survey. You have to view the character as a Disney villain like Dr. Drakken or Dr. Nimnul. He's a guy who took down the JLA once because he made it his hobby, the same way other people put together the perfect deck of Yu-Gi-Oh cards.

But no one...not Sterling Gates and apparently not James Robinson...seems to get that. No one seems to write him as a bombastic forum troll who's ideas are nutty enough to take the JLA by surprise. They write him as this seething asswipe, and completely miss the point.

You say he's got no motivation beyond "be bad," and to me that's what makes him potentially fun. At his peak, Prometheus is a loser with no friends whose hobby is super-villainy; he's the archetypal pasty nerd, only instead of being fat and out of shape because he collects coins, Prometheus is ripped and healthy because his hobby includes martial arts and spandex. He could be fun, but he's not, and I doubt he ever will be.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	khamelea 2009-09-03 05:49 pm UTC (link)
	I think I feel mostly the same way. It's kind of like later writers of Prometheus have taken the villain's publicity (and possibly bad teenage poetry) seriously. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ex_menagerie993 2009-09-03 05:42 am UTC (link)
	I mostly liked Prometheus because of his house I have to admit. (Reply to this)

	phoenixmessiah 2009-09-03 05:58 am UTC (link)
	I like him. (Reply to this)

trelas
2009-09-03 06:12 am UTC (link)

I'm actually glad about the resurgance of Prometheus, as I'm something of a fan of the character and I liked the Faces of Evil issue. Although at the same time I'm a bit worried if Robinson will retain the somewhat pathetic wannabe nature of him, as to me that was something that just made him such standout for me.

At the same time I was incredibly annoyed by his proclamation of Morrison's JLA in the fact that he took over in the time when some of the titles were held by characters who weren't the classical heroes, but stand-ins and replacements, and embraced that instead of offering explanations. Kyle had been GL for five years at that point, Wally the Flash for almost fifteen years, Aquaman's version was one of the most proclaimed versions of the character. So what the hell is so special about working with those versions instead of the Silver Age true versions. Sorry about that, it's not just this interview, Robinson to me has always come off as someone who idolized the Silver Age/Bronze Age versions of the characters and who somewhat looks down on anyone who came after that.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	xammax 2009-09-03 06:56 am UTC (link)
	I find it especially odd since that JLA was the most like a team the title has ever been to this day. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	queenanthai 2009-09-03 07:04 am UTC (link)
	So do we hear about the centaur pillows? Let's focus on what's important here, people. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-09-03 12:22 pm UTC (link)
	That's what I'm most excited for. (Reply to this) (Parent)

stig
2009-09-03 07:13 am UTC (link)

Moriarty is only a villain for the same reason that Watson is seen as a fat old idiot (thank you Kate Beaton): because of the films and other media blowing him out of proportion. Doyle's original intent was to bestow upon him the same aura of dread that comes from the unknown - similar to Dorian Gray's painting. Apart from that, he was just a plot device to get Holmes dead so that he wouldn't have to write Holmes stories any longer.

If Moriarty had never been invented, Holmes had a good rogues gallery full of better-developed villains, any one of whom could become his arch-nemesis - Jonathan Small, perhaps, or the old Professor in the adventure of the Spotted Band, or even Dr. Stapleton.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	magus_69 2009-09-03 07:18 am UTC (link)
	Moriarty is only a villain for the same reason that Watson is seen as a fat old idiot (thank you Kate Beaton): because of the films and other media blowing him out of proportion. This is why I'm glad that my first exposure to Sherlock Holmes was through the original stories. Watson was never Holmes, but he was always a badass in his way. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	stig 2009-09-03 07:44 am UTC (link)
	True that. You don't come back home after years as an army surgeon in Afghanistan without being a somewhat capable individual. Holmes' intelligence was originally established on the scale that he could fool and outwit someone as clever as Watson; reduce Watson's intelligence, and Holmes himself becomes only slightly cleverer than the average man. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kagome654 2009-09-03 10:46 am UTC (link)
	Or Arsène Lupin. ...I don't care if Doyle never wrote a Lupin/Holmes story, they're rivals! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-09-04 04:43 am UTC (link)
	HE didn't, but I believe contemporaries of his did. I suppose it boils down to whether or not you consider the original author's work to be the sole defining canon for the character, or whether one allows later influences as well. (In the latter case, Sherlock Holmes has also faced the Loch Ness Monster, Fu Manchu and Dracula. I prefer the latter case.) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kagome654 2009-09-04 02:15 pm UTC (link)
	Leblanc himself wrote a handful of Lupin/Holmes stories (unsurprisingly Lupin almost always come out on top during these encounters). I tend to prefer the latter case as well, since that means Holmes has also had a run in with Cthulhu. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kagome654 2009-09-04 02:16 pm UTC (link)
	*come=came (Reply to this) (Parent)

	psychop_rex 2009-09-04 09:53 pm UTC (link)
	And Batman, of course. Come to think of it, who HASN'T Holmes encountered? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	majingojira 2009-09-03 01:57 pm UTC (link)
	Motto! God, I read his first sentances regarding Moriarity and then just stopped. If you're going to make an analogy to something--KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FIRST! (Reply to this) (Parent)

icon_uk
2009-09-03 05:49 pm UTC (link)

I always liked David Burke's Watson in the Jeremy Brett line, even more than Edmund Hardwicke, he made Watson a decent, intelligent admirable man (He WAS a Doctor, and Holmes noted their values in "The Speckled Band" when he pointed out; When a doctor goes wrong, he is the first of criminals. He has nerve. He has knowledge. Palmer and Pritchard were among the heads of their profession)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

ian_karkull
2009-09-03 08:26 am UTC (link)

I think it's probably best to consider Prometheus less an actual character than a plot device to up the stakes significantly. That's fine, comics live from their big explosions and oh shiiit moments, but it has to be used with care or it becomes unbelievable, boring or just plain silly.
None of the second Injustice Gang had all that much character, they where basically just tools in Luthors fight against godlike people he didn't care for very much. Human sized Atom Bombs for Lex to chuck in Superman's general direction. That's probably how they're used best.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	shadeedge 2009-09-03 09:37 am UTC (link)
	I sort of agree with this, but for a different reason. He's also just a plot device of "anti-Batman" - he's often written entirely to serve the goal of that plot device. Much of the time he doesn't have anything in the way of a cohesive character - he's just a tool, not only to serve Luthor, but to serve the story. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	hyperactivator 2009-09-03 11:48 am UTC (link)
	On villainy I would say that entertainment factor is far more important than prowess. I'll take the Joker in drag doing nothing more than freaking out Superboy at prom and being entertaining than a dull uber powerfull villian dropping satailites on cities just to show how cool he is. (Reply to this) (Thread)

jarodrussell
2009-09-03 03:33 pm UTC (link)

And there-in lies the heart of what's missing from Prometheus, the realization that he does villainy (not crime, villainy) as a way to "nyah-nyah" super-heroes. He wouldn't drop satellites on cities because anyone can take credit for that. Whatever he does has to be face-to-face with the hero, so he can brag about it. That's his shtick, and it's his weakness. The reason Huntress one-ups him is because she's boring, she's not an A-class hero, she's small fish that he doesn't think about.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	hyperactivator 2009-09-04 12:26 pm UTC (link)
	Exactly. He needs to be shown as a threat to superheros and not the world. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mullon 2009-09-03 05:13 pm UTC (link)
	"...but I consider it a masterpiece." Why do you insist on maing me lose respect for you Robinson? Why? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	zippthorn 2009-09-03 07:36 pm UTC (link)
	R.I.P., though not perfect by any stretch, was an engaging story, and an interesting take on bat-continuity. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sailorlibra 2009-09-03 07:44 pm UTC (link)
	Maybe. But definitely not a masterpiece. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	zippthorn 2009-09-03 07:54 pm UTC (link)
	I agree, it wasn't. But Robinson thinks it was. To each their own. (Reply to this) (Parent)