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trelas ([info]trelas) wrote in [info]scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-25 15:19:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:char: batman/bruce wayne, char: prometheus, creator: grant morrison, creator: howard porter, series: martial arts week

The Rise and Fall of Prometheus
When the Martial Arts week was suggested/announced, a character by the way of Prometheus was mentioned in the commentary to some amount. To those unaware, Prometheus was a character introduced during the now-legendary JLA run of Grant Morrison, and he was in essence the anti-Batman, both thematically, in appearance and in personality. His criminal parents were shot by the police, causing him to hate justice, after whice he dedicated himself to travel around the world to seek power. Yet unlike Batman, who used that time to rise above his limitations and perfect his methods, Prometheus in turn found a way around using ancient technology, which basically allowed him to download in to his mind different skill sets, say for instance martial arts. Prometheus does not have super powers, but he has several plans for each superhero, as Batman. However, unlike Batman, Prometheus lacks pragmatism, is much more of a showboat, shifts his focus too often and is kind of pathetic, as we are about to see. Even visually they were counterparts, the dark demon of justice in comparison to the bright knight of crime.

Now personally I think he is one of the best creations of Morrison's JLA era and was kind of sad to see him lose status so rapidly after it, but fortuntately they seem to be addressing that in the current stories. I could do a great big post of the character, but unfortuntaly it would break the posting limits, so I'm focusing on his two fights with Batman, as this is the Martial Arts Week.

The first fight took place during Prometheus's first appearance, where he almost single-handedly takes down JLA through the Batman method. During a press conference in the Watchtower, during which new members of the JLA are introduced to the public, Prometheus fakes his way in and sabotages the tower systems while taking out the JLA members one by one. At one point Huntress catches him messing with the system, leading to this.









So the first fight between the two ended with Batman being whooped off-panel. I have to admit that when I first read this I was somewhat perplexed as I assumed the face-off between the two to be nothing short of awesome. Of course at that point I hadn't read their second encounter and understand why this was so important, besides establishing the character of Prometheus. Anyway, continuing with Kyle and Wally.





See, the bright knight of crime.



And that scene shall always be one of the prime reasons why I heart Prometheus. Of course there's a problem.



See, Prometheus was kind of pathetic in that despite his brilliance, he lacked the focus and throughness of Bruce or Lex. Put either of them in that situation, Kyle and Wally would have died, they would have made certain of it. To Prometheus it was just another thing to do while moving to bigger plans, mainly to have Superman kill himself. Which failed, because he took too much time grandstanding and allowing non-essential people to be around to mess his plans.

Prometheus does make his escape to the nothingness where he has his house, leaving his helmet behind and plotting new plans. Finally he comes to the conclusion that he can't do it alone, so gathers the biggest enemies of the JLA he can find.






See, even the other villains think that Prometheus is kind of pathetic. That's what's so awesome about the character. He's one of the most dangerous individuals in the world, but his falling is that he wants everyone to know that and respect him, while everyone respects Luthor and Bruce just because they know exactly how hardcore those two are without them feeling the need to prove it. Prometheus is the kid desperately looking for approval, which also makes it very difficult for others to give it to him.

So the new Injustice League (the three here plus General Eiling) begin a devastating assault on the Watchtower, where people just noticed that Prometheus actually went and got his helmet back before the attack. Not that the warning prepares them for the onslaught as they just realized a doomsday weapon is making its way to Earth. The attack is awesome beyond words, but posting it all would again seriously cross the posting limits, so let's just stick to Prometheus, who has gone to take care of a less-seen member of the League.







Maybe because you're seriously pathetic, but that's just a guess. Posted because Babs is kind of awesome here. Prometheus makes his way back to the Watchtower, knocks Huntress out again and then we get the second fight.





And it's time for round two. And it's awesome.





Notice the scream from Prometheus at the beginning of the fight. I just love the utter patheticness of Prometheus. I know I'm repeating myself, but seriously, this guy is just gold. Also notice how Batman pretty much squashed Prometheus there even with the downloaded data.





And because Batman knows that difference is the reason why he is one of the top fighters in the DCU. Also, it isn't as if Prometheus was fighting fair. Third, shut up Huntress. That was in relation to her tough talk after someone else beat Prometheus. Now some complain that this victory required Batman to be lucky in that Prometheus got the helm back, but Batman went in to the fight knowing that instead of hitting him from behind or something like that, so it is actually Batman following the plan in case Prometheus did that while utterly humiliating him.

Damn I hope we get this Prometheus back, he just makes me all warm and tingly inside, hope you enjoyed the bouts as much as I did.

Now, lastly, I wished to comment on something. Already in the beginning of this week I've seen some commentary on Bruce's status on the Martial Arts list, but the thing is that DC has actually established his position on that matter in canon. The following is a page from Countdown to Infinite Crisis, where Ted Kord reads the files on various superheroes.



First of all, as can be seen they actually differentiate between martial and hand-to-hand combat. Now while that may seem at first a rather superficial decision, there is actually a significant difference between the two and it makes sense, at least to me. Secondly, they gave an explicit example of what it means to be class A2 and A1 in the term speed. Superman's speed was classified as A2, while for Flash it would A1. So according to this, within the DCU, Bruce Wayne is one of the top martial artists, but not one of the best. However, when it goes to a fight, a brutal knockdown where anything goes, at that point he is one of the best in the DCU, something I would also extend to Dick. Now, whetever or not one likes it is again a matter of opinion and the focus of another discussion. One could also easily claim that Superman shouldn't be the strongest hero or Diana shouldn't be as invulnerable, those are just opinions which have merit, but are, as said, the focus of another discussion. Also, considering this is a character in his late thirties, who has spent majority of his life focusing on perfecting his skills and almost nightly faces superior numbers in combat as well as foes of wildly varying skill levels and styles, I don't really consider somehow unreasonably that Batman, no matter who is under the cowl, wouldn't be one of the best hand-to-hand combatants in the DCU. Just my opinion, though, and as such a matter for another discussion.

Hoped you enjoyed the post as I already begin to prepare for another fight fest. which shall have a lot less babbling from me.


(Post a new comment)


[info]jlroberson
2009-08-25 02:19 pm UTC (link)
As Pete Wisdom said, you only fight with honor when you don't care about the pawns. But when lives are at stake: you cheat. I do like Morrison's Batman, always.

And Prometheus? You have a really stupid costume.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]janegray
2009-08-25 08:49 pm UTC (link)
you only fight with honor when you don't care about the pawns. But when lives are at stake: you cheat.

AMEN.

It really pisses me off when heroes, with the world at stake, refuse to defeat the villain "dishonorably". Because risking the lives of billions in order to stroke your ego is so totally honorable, AMIRIGHT?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-08-25 11:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-08-26 04:14 am UTC

[info]xamda
2009-08-25 10:33 pm UTC (link)
'And Prometheus? You have a really stupid costume.'

You know, I find the main body of the costume really cool and bumpy. The helmet though? Awful! Doesn't fit it with anything, and uses different colours and shapes to everything else he's wearing. Bah.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ashtoreth
2009-08-26 03:21 am UTC (link)
I realize it was a cute line for all the Bat-worshippers, but how could that EVER POSSIBLY be considered cheating?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-08-26 04:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashtoreth, 2009-08-26 04:18 am UTC

[info]thanekos
2009-08-25 02:45 pm UTC (link)
if it helps, it's been retconned that any Prometheus post-Mageddon was an imposter, an apprentice who took on the name and gear and proceeded to do not-so-good at it.

Original Flavor tracked him down, set him on fire, and laughed at the fact that people would now underestimate him.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jlroberson
2009-08-25 03:04 pm UTC (link)
It's so quaint, in a way: a CD system. I'm assuming he upgraded later to a more "cloud" system--it would make more sense and proper encryption would have prevented the Hawking debacle.

I mean, by the time he's stopped explaining and popped the damn thing in, Batman would have knocked it right out of his hand with the bazillion things he carries to do that. Not to mention: one little bit of dust settling on it and suddenly he might get an error message. Just think of any CD-ROM you've used that had just one little fingerprint.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-08-25 05:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]khamelea, 2009-08-25 07:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-08-25 07:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-08-25 10:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-08-25 10:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-08-25 10:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-08-25 10:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-08-25 11:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2009-08-25 11:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trelas, 2009-08-25 11:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]halloweenjack, 2009-08-26 05:54 pm UTC

[info]nezchan
2009-08-25 03:10 pm UTC (link)
What makes that last fight so awesome is that once he'd changed that data, he could have just left Prommy there, effectively helpless. But no, HE HAD TO BEAT UP STEPHEN HAWKING!

Where does this deep-seated hatred of physicists come from, Bruce?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]silicone_soul
2009-08-25 03:22 pm UTC (link)
A physics professor flunked his parents, perhaps?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nezchan, 2009-08-25 03:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]currer, 2009-08-25 06:55 pm UTC

[info]daningram
2009-08-25 03:42 pm UTC (link)
Hey, who hasn't dreamed of one punching Stephen Hawking?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-08-25 09:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaseen101, 2009-08-25 05:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trelas, 2009-08-25 11:12 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2009-08-25 04:32 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for the great post! I particularly liked your "dark demon of justice" versus "bright knight of crime" dichotomy.

(Reply to this)


[info]kingrockwell
2009-08-25 04:42 pm UTC (link)
Well, certainly one of the tops, but that doesn't necessarily mean the top. It's a question of how many other people are classified as A1.
also it might be worth taking into account who wrote Brother Mk I's info

And "Do you miss your baby carriage?" :D
why is her hair brown

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]trelas, 2009-08-25 07:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kingrockwell, 2009-08-25 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-08-25 10:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-08-26 04:33 am UTC

[info]box_in_the_box
2009-08-25 05:01 pm UTC (link)
I loved Morrison's synthesis of the mad scientist pre-Crisis Luthor with the corrupt businessman post-Crisis Luthor.

His dissection of Prometheus as the ultimate emo kid is both hilarious and apt (especially given that that's what so many fans and creators mistakenly see Batman as, and since Prometheus is trying to be "the Batman of evil" ...), and yet, Lex is still willing to work with the guy, in spite of regarding him as an inferior, because deep down, there's a part of Lex that's into the GAME of villainy in the same way as Prometheus is ("I'm in this for the buzz").

You can see this in the way that Luthor talks about the Joker here, as well - he KNOWS that teaming up with the Joker makes about as much tactical sense as sticking your dick in a blender, but there's still a slow-motion car-crash fascination there.

Oh, and this was the story arc that convinced me that Luthor and Zazzala were fuck-buddies - as much as Zazzala herself would protest the informality of the term - because of how casual Luthor is toward her, and how much Zazzala insists on asserting her rank over him.

(Reply to this)


[info]snapper52
2009-08-25 05:34 pm UTC (link)
Prometheus is the big bad in James Robinson's Justice League mini. (issues 1 and 2 are out now)
Or at least, he's definitely in it. I'm not sure about big bad now that I've read the first two issues..

(Reply to this)


[info]neuhallidae
2009-08-25 06:18 pm UTC (link)
I forget, when was it that Prometheus lost because he had the information on all the heroes, but not the villains, and therefore got his ass handed to him by Catwoman? It was in the same tpb as the story of the JLA teaming up with Dream to take on Starro.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]vignettelante, 2009-08-25 06:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]neuhallidae, 2009-08-25 06:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-08-25 09:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]daningram, 2009-08-25 09:20 pm UTC

[info]volksjager
2009-08-25 06:35 pm UTC (link)
I agree with you about Prometheus being the best to come out of Grant Morrison's run on the JLA. The best piece of writing is how P takes out the Flash ... simply faking him out. That is lateral thinking worthy of Alexander.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]vignettelante, 2009-08-25 06:42 pm UTC

[info]nezchan
2009-08-25 07:06 pm UTC (link)
Now that I think about it a bit, this is really how Superboy Prime should have been played after Countdown. It would have been way better than what we actually got stuck with.

(Reply to this)


[info]deleonjh
2009-08-25 08:54 pm UTC (link)
He beat Lady Shiva, right? I'm actually slightly disappointed that he and Bats and Shiva are supposed to be DC's top martial artists because that means there are no martial artists who can stun people with a shout or walk through walls or the other insane shit legendary martial artists are supposed to be capable of.

Also, I wonder how Bruce keeps his martial arts skills at the top since the vast majority of his opponents are unskilled and untrained gangsters and muggers. A top fighter needs to train with and fight against other top fighters, but Penguin and Two-Face aren't exactly good at hand-to-hand. I guess Killer Croc might count since he's supposed to be a really good wrestler. If you look at how boxers and UFC people train, they regularly visit each other to spar and such. Training is basically their job and it's not even 9-5, more like 7-5. Which would not leave much time for crimefighting and certainly not much energy.

See, I think Batman doesn't train to fight martial artists, he trains to fight run-of-the-mill criminals who are, like I said, enthusiastic but untrained. So it's not really that shocking that he would get his ass handed to him now and again.

And I'd like to know why you think hand-to-hand combat and martial arts are different. Any hand-to-hand system of fighting would necessarily be a martial art. If there's no system behind it then it would just be untrained flailing like kids do on the playground. Note that I consider boxing to be a martial art since it is a coherent fighting system.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2009-08-25 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trelas, 2009-08-25 11:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toby_wan_kenobi, 2009-08-25 10:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-08-25 11:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]btravage.livejournal.com, 2009-08-25 10:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-08-25 10:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trelas, 2009-08-25 11:11 pm UTC

[info]proteus_lives
2009-08-25 09:55 pm UTC (link)
Prometheus is an interesting character if used right.

(Reply to this)


[info]nymphgalatea
2009-08-25 10:11 pm UTC (link)
I remember reading this for the first time several years ago and yelping with delighted horror at the page where he so-casually shoots Kyle. That sort of thing isn't supposed to happen to superheroes! But it did, and it was so unexpected it was awesome.

(Reply to this)


[info]btravage.livejournal.com
2009-08-25 10:29 pm UTC (link)
How'd he find Oracle?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]trelas, 2009-08-25 11:00 pm UTC

[info]zordboy
2009-08-26 01:13 am UTC (link)
I'm sure *someone* here didn't like it (but hey, if I'm looking correctly there's no handles on Bab's chair!), but you know, I *loved* Morrison's dialogue between Oracle and Prometheus there. "When you're done trying to insult me to death..." Great. But then, the Mageddon storyline was my very first foray into comic-book-collecting, so there's always a little sentimental value there.

Plus, exactly. Go Batman. When the world's in danger, cheat. The point is to beat your opponent, and when the villain is about to kill you, nobody's going to be standing there giving you a score on how nice you are. I loved that moment.

(Reply to this)


[info]parsimonia
2009-08-26 04:30 am UTC (link)
"PROFESSOR STEPHN HAWKING...FOR JUSTICE!"

Also, I'm curious, how does Babs not die from getting thrown out the Clocktower window?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-08-26 11:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]zordboy, 2009-08-26 01:36 pm UTC

[info]psychop_rex
2009-08-26 08:31 am UTC (link)
Prometheus has always interested me - I like his costume, and all the little details like his living in an otherdimensional fortress give writers a lot of interesting material to work with. Plus, I like the concept that here's a guy who could be almost invincible except for one little thing - himself. I mean, here's a guy who has mastered unfathomably complex levels of science, always plans everything out to the Nth degree, has invented a helmet that makes him a better fighter than anyone else on Earth, if used correctly - and yet, somehow, he just can't hack it. He's basically a really really formidable wannabe.
That scene with Babs is a good illustration of this - she's giving him information about a potentially devastating alien threat - VALUABLE information that, if accurate, would be something he could use. Does he even consider this? Does he say something like 'even if you're telling the truth, it can't affect me?' No - he's barely even listening to her. He obviously already knows what he's going to say and he's impatient to get to the good bits, because DAMN, but they make him sound like a badass, ha ha, that's right, who da man? He probably rehearsed in front of the mirror beforehand. This is a guy who is so impressed with himself that he dismisses everyone else - which means, of course, that they kick his ass.

(Reply to this)


[info]xdoop
2009-08-26 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Third, shut up Huntress.

"Your resentment is delicious."
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

(Reply to this)

Heh!..
[info]steverodgers5
2009-08-27 08:43 pm UTC (link)
Everytime I see Prometheus, I can't help but smile at that moment when he announced to Captain America that he'd downloaded the fighting skills of Batman...Stating, "Which should be more than enough to take down you.."

Which only results in Steve just giving him a subtle 'Oh really' look, before beating the living daylights out of him. :)

Never. Gets. Old!

..Even with the ret-con that now suggests that it was an inferior Prometheus..(Although I suppose Krona could have pulled out the original from the time line..)

(Reply to this)



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