InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "No! Not THAT song!"

nevermore999 (nevermore999) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-03-14 19:06:00

Entry tags:

char: black canary/dinah lance, char: robin/red robin/tim drake, char: spoiler/robin/batgirl/steph brown, char: wildcat/ted grant, creator: chuck dixon, creator: eduardo barreto, series: super steph series, title: robin

Super Steph Series pt 4- The Robin 80 page giant!
Now for the Robin 80 page giant! It's a very Steph-centric little tale, and in it we see her first meeting and team up with Black Canary (and Wildcat) Lots of nice moments, but bleh art, and an important milestone for Steph and Tim.

Basically, this takes place when Tim's stepmom, Dana and Dad, Jack are getting ready to get married.

Weird that they're discussing red here, since Steph's costume looks all red, despite the fact it's, y'know, not supposed to be.

Gotta love how Tim throws his arms up when he yells "STEPH!" We'll assume he's not in earshot of the thugs when he yells her name this time. To be nice.

They beat up some thugs...

Oh snap!

...or not. Hah, look at the lines radiating from Tim's head. I find them funny, for some reason.

"Are you Batman approved?"
"Yes."
"No."
"...maybe so?"
"Ah, I get it. Batdickery."

"How dare you ask for help from people that aren't me, Steph!"

Steph runs off to find Dinah.

I told you kicking guys in the back of their heads when they weren't looking was Steph's trademark! Though I have no idea how she pulled off that particular kick, it looks impossible. Also, I have no idea why Black Canary's leotard doesn't cover her shiny ass.

Hey, notice how Black Canary and Steph's faces look exactly the same? It gets worse on the next page. Also, Wildcat likes watching people argue.

See? I can barely tell who's talking. We've got three blonde chicks in this story (You'll see Dana Drake in a minute) (who isn't even supposed to be blonde, but she has to same disease Steph's Mom has regarding changing appearance) and they all look EXACTLY ALIKE. I hate this art, it's so generic. Also, Dinah realizes that getting involved with Batman will spell instant death for Steph.

Great! Now Black Canary's sleeve is miscolored so it looked like she's Spoiler, so it took me forever to figure out if it was her or Steph talking in that last panel!

I really wish the Dinah-Steph partnership had lasted longer. Dinah's the perfect mentor for Steph. She's not a dick like Batman, not to mention is well aware of Batman's dickery. She's an expert martial artist, she's tough enough on Steph that she would be able to reign in her impulsive and spacey behaviour, but nice enough to not jerk her around and she also understands the difficulties of being a female crimefighter in Gotham (no girls allowed!) There's really a lot she could have taught Steph, and look, Steph is so willing to learn!

Oh, right. Plot. Well see, back in the day, the Justice Society fought this crazy lady who controlled animals. She apparently died, but really transferred her spirit into this amulet. BY AMAZING COINCIDENCE, Jack Drake finds said amulet on an archeological dig and gives it to Dana for a wedding present. On their way to the wedding, Dana (wearing the amulet) suddenly turns feral on Tim and tries to kill him, also making all these animals escape and attack people. Dinah, Ted and Steph are out on the case in Dinah's car, when suddenly, Tim, being attacked by his feral stepmom, smashes into them. Steph's cape gets adorably flipped over her head.

Robin hears Steph calling out for him and crawls away to change into his costume and possessed!Dana escapes.

Ah, Steph's so cute worrying about Tim! ~~Too bad Tim's gay.~~ Even Wildcat thinks it's cute! Also, he doesn't care if Tim lives or dies!

EWWWW, Steph thinks Tim's banging his stepmother! She is pretty young to be marrying an old guy like Jack. It's a little creepy. Tim's friend Benard even mentions it in Robin #126 or something, and Tim's all like "Shut up!"

Tim and Steph get seperated, and Tim meets up with Dinah and finds Steph.

Tim saves Steph by bataranging the elephants foot. Then all these animals start attacking them. Steph is particularly non plussed when geese start attacking her.

"KILL KILL KILL....huh?"

NO, Tim, she's famous for kicking people in the back of the head when they're not looking! But Steph badassery is most appreciated.

All the animals disperse.

Um, Tim, she kind of DID do the same for you just now. If it weren't for her "roundhouse right", you'd be snakefood. And why is Spoiler's belt suddenly green?

Anyway, Tim's worried Dana would figure out his secret identity if she remembered what happened when she was posessed, but she very conveiniently doesn't! So they have the wedding and everyone has a happy ending, except Dana has a black eye on her wedding day, which for some reason she didn't cover with makeup. Also, Ravenna might have tranferred her mind to a squirrel, but that plot thread is never picked up, so....

Next, Steph discovers Tim's secret! Then, a quick overview of Steph and Cass and Steph and the Birds of Prey!

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bluefall
2009-03-14 06:44 pm UTC (link)

I really wish the Dinah-Steph partnership had lasted longer.

Huh. Now there's an idea. >.>

I never noticed before, but Steph really gets a lot of accolades for the name, doesn't she? First Bruce, now Wildcat. Makes me wonder if the creative team got flack from the fanbase about it and were trying to be like "Hey, these cool guys think it's a great name, so SHUTUP YOU."

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	bariman1987 2009-03-15 12:25 am UTC (link)
	"Huh. Now there's an idea. >.>" If only someone would write some fics about it. Perhaps with a suitable 'verse name, like, "Spoilerverse" or "specific bird-of-prey"-verse. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-03-15 12:48 am UTC (link)
	or "specific bird-of-prey"-verse. Hey! Quit spoiling the ending! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bariman1987 2009-03-15 02:53 am UTC (link)
	Wait, so that's what your verse-name means? Oh, cool. Er, and sorry, I didn't know about that beforehand. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-03-15 09:42 am UTC (link)
	I was mostly being silly. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bariman1987 2009-03-15 12:10 pm UTC (link)
	Phew, I was getting worried there. :) Also, notice how awesomely I began my sentence with verbal placeholders like "wait," "oh," and "er." facepalm (Reply to this) (Parent)

	pyrotwilight 2009-03-15 12:28 am UTC (link)
	If only Steph could find someone to train her so the Bat Family would stop telling her every 3 panels she can't be a crime fighter.... (Reply to this)

	lieut_kettch 2009-03-15 07:13 am UTC (link)
	So THAT'S where the famous "Steph kicks a goose" panel comes from. Also, I heard somewhere that Dinah and Jack Drake are related-- cousins or something-- which would make her Tim's aunt. (Reply to this) (Thread)

bariman1987
2009-03-15 12:08 pm UTC (link)

They're not related that I'm aware of, but it would be pretty cool if they were. However, everyone in the DCU named "Harper" is apparently related (Speedy/Arsenal/Red Arrow, Guardian, Tim's cop friend), so it wouldn't surprise me if any Drakes in the 'verse were related as well. But, wasn't that weather-controlling guy that Jaime defeated ("I have lasers and you have no pants. Do the math.") named Drake? They have a supervillain in their family tree. I am now worried for Dinah and Tim.

A while back, I had a thoughtbunny (related to, but different and often mistaken for, a plotbunny) of Tim "Robin" Drake being related to Bobby "Iceman" Drake of the X-Men, as well as Linda "Supergirl" Danvers being related to Carol "Ms. Marvel" Danvers.

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psychop_rex
2009-03-16 12:44 am UTC (link)

The costume. I do not approve. Steph looks awesome in purple, but red? No. That outfit does not work in red. Plus the hood is too floppy.
And y'know, I am not what you would call particular dedicated to Steph - this board aside, I've only read one or two comics with her in it - but even I'm starting to get a little exasperated at how often people tell her she should quit being Spoiler. The next time Robin tells her that, she should say 'Hold the phone! Your big beef is that I don't have enough experience or training, and it's dangerous, right? Well, I've A: been doing this for almost as long as you have at this point, B: at this point, I've actually been trained by more people than you have, and C: Bats himself - your boss - your currently dead but oh so all-important, all-critical jerkwad of a boss - has given me the thumbs up by now, and asked ME to help HIM with YOU! Stop whining about how I can't do the job!'

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sistermagpie
2009-03-16 09:20 am UTC (link)

Your big beef is that I don't have enough experience or training, and it's dangerous, right? Well, I've A: been doing this for almost as long as you have at this point, B: at this point, I've actually been trained by more people than you have, and C: Bats himself - your boss - your currently dead but oh so all-important, all-critical jerkwad of a boss - has given me the thumbs up by now, and asked ME to help HIM with YOU! Stop whining about how I can't do the job!'

Actually, I think the beef at this point isn't that she doesn't have experience or training but that experience and training aren't enough. I don't think Batman ever did fully give her a thumbs up, but he does use her when he thinks she can be useful. Most recently telling her to sort of throw things at Tim knowing that if Steph was the one creating the scenario it would be Tim who had to fix it--iow, it wouldn't be a training exercise, it would be the real thing. At least that's the way I read the position of the others about Spoiler.

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psychop_rex
2009-03-16 03:43 pm UTC (link)

Well, if experience and training aren't enough, then what IS the necessary criteria? I mean, yes, Steph has made a few blunders during her career so far, but she's got a never-say-die attitude, she's ready and willing to learn from her mistakes, she takes the initiative - what's the problem?
While I'm not usually one to cry sexism, I think that may be largely the issue here. If Steph were male, Batman and Robin would have growled and grumbled and made threatening noises, but eventually they would have accepted him as another one of the Gotham crimefighting fraternity. Instead, they keep telling her to go home and hang up the costume. Does this seem at all familiar? The first appearance of the original Batwoman? Same thing - "This is too dangerous for a woman - go home!" (Of course, that WAS the early 1950's, before the word 'feminism' had even been created, but still.) Huntress? They've been making threatening noises at her for years. Batgirl, the original one? If you believe the 'Year One' treatment, she got the cold shoulder from the word go - it was only editorial policy that made Bruce soften up and accept her. They've been doing this for YEARS.
Also, a secondary factor may simply be that they don't think she's grim 'n gritty enough. 'This isn't a game', they growl, teeth locked into threatening Liefeld-style grimaces. 'Crimefighting is tough and brutal and full of angst! Stop being so GD cheerful! You're making us look bad! Stop with the... no, don't make a quip, you aren't listening; STOP SMILING! THIS IS GOTHAM, DAMMIT! YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SMILE, UNLESS YOU'RE THE JOKER! CHIN DOWN AND LOOK DOUR!'

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sistermagpie
2009-03-16 04:08 pm UTC (link)

As I read it, it's not that she's incompetent or stupid, or that they're punishing her, or that if she just works hard enough they'll reward her. That's the whole misunderstanding on her part. It's that having watched her for years, she doesn't have what they're looking for, what they think she needs. Sometimes she'll be really helpful and successful and nobody can take that away from her, but she can't handle situations the way she needs to be able to handle them. So her never-say-die attitude, her willingness to try to learn from her mistakes, while good qualities, aren't going to give her what she needs to have.

I'm not dismissive of the sexism idea. I can see why it's obvious to think about. For me, I don't find it sexist. There are women/girls who don't have Steph's issues, there are men/boys also unsuited to doing this. Personally I *don't* accept the Year One treatment for Babs because I think it does try to make her into a feisty girl who's just trying to win validation from Batman and personal expression and that's totally not what Babs was and I think it's demeaning. But even in that story Babs was suited to doing this.

Like I said, I'm not dismissing people feeling like this is connected to her being a girl. I'm not going to come out and say there can't be any sexism at work here. But for my reading of this character it seems like they've pretty consistently showed me the problems that she has that keep her from reaching the next level, and so everyone else comes across as speaking the truth to her rather than just arbitrarily raising the bar so that she can't reach it. For me--and I know for others it reads differently so they can't enjoy it--but for me this isn't demeaning to Stephanie as a character, it doesn't make her a loser. It just puts her in a hard situation where eventually she has to deal with this being the truth. There really is nothing she can do to please them because it's not about pleasing them. It'd be interesting to see this played out in a boy or a girl--I think she's a girl so they could have a romance with Tim. I think Jason Todd was kind of a prototype for the possibility of this kind of story, though his problems were different from Steph's.

Anyway, that's just how the conflict always plays out for me, that Steph's unique in that she's somebody who wants to do this but isn't really up to it--without being some joke who's so bad she'd have to be crazy to think she could. If you actually see Stephanie as having problems that believably keep her out of the training program, the other peoples' actions make perfect sense and don't read like arbitrary dickery or author sexism.

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psychop_rex
2009-03-16 06:33 pm UTC (link)

I suppose that makes sense - but really, the fact that she hasn't quite been able to make the next step is evidence of some sort of authorial or editorial prejudice. I mean, she's been around for a while now, she's a popular character, she has training, enemies, a supporting cast, she's on speaking terms with Batman - all she lacks, if we go by your hypothesis, is the ability to go that liiiiittle bit further. If she had that, she'd be a pro.
Now, let's look at - oh, I dunno - Azrael. Let's look at Azrael. He started out as a naive college student turned brainwashed assassin for a cultlike order of monks. How long did it take Batman to take him under his wing? Five minutes? And then, when his back was broken, who did he pick to take over for him as Bats? That's right, Azrael, who then proceeded to become a raging psychopath until the real Bats came back and beat him, at which point he turned into a bit of a whimpering wreck.
In short, he had a number of considerable disadvantages against him from word one. Yet, he was given that little extra push by the writers, that ability to go a little bit further, and now he's a semi-regular member of the team, trusted by all. And this is despite the fact that he very nearly wrecked the name of Batman for all time.
Now take Steph. She has far fewer things against her than Azrael has, she's been around almost as long (if I remember correctly, she first showed up about halfway through the 'KnightFall' storyline), she's guest-starred in major comics such as 'Robin', 'Batman' and 'Detective Comics' - as a matter of fact, she has everything that Azrael had, and then some - except, again, that liiiittle bit of evolution. Azrael was given it. So far, she hasn't been. Why not?
I'm not necessarily saying the writers are sexist - after all, how would I know? - but just a wee bit of tinkering would fix what's wrong with her and allow her to embark unimpeded on a glittering career. The fact that she hasn't received that tinkering where many others have is... interesting.

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sistermagpie
2009-03-16 10:04 pm UTC (link)

It's true--Azrael was slated to take over for Batman of all things, so he was going to be accepted and have success without earning it any more than her. (Of course, he also wound up crazy, right? I wouldn't want to see Stephanie got some sort of weird power boost and got promoted only to then go crazy and flame out. That would seem more like a punishment.)

It seems like at least some writers do see her as needing to evolve since Tim is. I don't think that evolution has to mean that she becomes a better vigilante, basically the same but without these issues. Or of course she could keep being Spoiler and just operate on a lower level, though that's what I feel like she should try to avoid.

I don't want to say how she should be written or anything. It's just that often Batman's attitude towards Steph and training doesn't make sense to a lot of people so I just feel compelled to say that it does make sense to me. Which is not to say I think he's treated her well. There's plenty of times where he is using her to act out his weird emotional issues. I just don't consider the not wanting to train her part of that, if that makes sense.

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