InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Whatchu talkin bout Willis?"

stolisomancer (stolisomancer) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-08 12:50:00

Entry tags:

creator: christos gage, publisher: avatar press, title: absolution

Absolution #0
Just to clarify some discussion from the post I made yesterday, here are some pages from Absolution issue #0. #1 is a flashback to the first time John Dusk deliberately broke the law; #0 is from the "current day."

The pages after the cut are SFW.

One of John's most traumatic collars, a serial child killer named Coleman, has gone to trial. The morning before John is called to testify, John's girlfriend, a local homicide detective named Karen, points out that one of the spectators at the trial seems to be, well, more entertained than he ought to be.

Since his night's now free, John decides to track down the guy from the courtroom. He breaks into the guy's apartment, and finds stacks of bondage magazines and several taxidermied animals.

The next page is more or less exactly what you'd imagine it is.

(Post a new comment)

	taggerung301 2009-08-08 08:17 pm UTC (link)
	And this is why I gave up my plans of being a psychiatrist early on . . . I don't want to have to deal with individuals that can't be fixed. Damn it, I wish that there was a solution for this kind of shit. The fact that he's dead is probably for the best, but just killing him still seems so damn wrong. It's a very mixed emotion. Anyone get what I'm saying? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lynxara 2009-08-08 08:19 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I think it's the exact unease we're supposed to feel as audience members. Ultimately both parties are sympathetic. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	domino_blue 2009-08-08 08:40 pm UTC (link)
	Too well but frankly he hasn't done anything besides being a creepy asshole so who know when he would snap if ever. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

taggerung301
2009-08-08 08:47 pm UTC (link)

in this case it seems more like he would muster up the courage to do something nasty instead of just "snapping"

and yeah, there's no way to tell if he would actually go there
I seem to remember reading something a while ago (and if this is wrong, forgive me, my memory sucks) that said that there are a lot of sick freaks like this in the world, and only a few actually went the extra mile. Either that, or they didn't get caught.

still, it would be hard just to walk away from someone like that, ya know?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	domino_blue 2009-08-08 08:54 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah it's true I wish you could do something about it but life is not simple and someone just being creepy asshole is no reason to simply kill someone or but then again I don't know statistics on this type of thing and besides I can see where the characters are coming from. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ashtoreth 2009-08-09 03:17 am UTC (link)
	Creepy assholes are a dime a dozen. My father in law was so freaky he scared me. Then one day he became a drag queen and cheered the hell up. Seriously, you never know what is going to come out of a person. I can't stand this kind of judgementalism. Its one thing if the guy DID something, but he didn't. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	I don't know why I'm asking this. mcity 2009-08-09 03:51 am UTC (link)
	>hen one day he became a drag queen He any good at it? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: I don't know why I'm asking this. ashtoreth 2009-08-09 03:55 am UTC (link)
	He's not the lookiest lady in sequins and feathered hats, and he can't sing worth a damn. At least it got him to shave off the creepy beard. Seriously, he looked like the kind of person you'd avoid in the backwoods. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	taggerung301 2009-08-09 12:42 pm UTC (link)
	I guess I was being judgemental here . . . but still, did your father in law ever say anything along the lines of what this guy said? cause I'm not saying "let's all stare suspiciously at and contemplate killing all the freaky weird people!", I'm saying "let's keep our eye on the ones who actually talk about killing and raping people" (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

ashtoreth
2009-08-09 04:59 pm UTC (link)

Killing people? All the time. Common talk among old veterans. Wierd sexual activity? Also common (TOO MUCH INFORMATION STOP TELLING ME AGH). Rape? Never. "I'm gonna kill this person"? Occasionally from dweebs who like to talk, but couldn't do anything if someone lit their asses on fire.

This guy, above, he does not strike me as a person who does things. He's a talker, who likes the reaction.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

taggerung301
2009-08-09 05:37 pm UTC (link)

I see your point, but the biggest thing that hit me here was that this guy was masturbating (at least I'm pretty sure that it's implied, and if not I'm reading into things way too much) in a court room watching the trial of a serial child-killer

this isn't just some weird guy with strange habits - this is someone with a serious, serious problem

maybe he is just a talker
or maybe he really will go out there and fulfill his twisted little fantasies by killing people

I don't like that the main character just broke into this guy's house and killed him. I'm not saying that everyone with any sort of a weird kink should be overly scrutinized (cause that would be waaaay too many people, myself included). I was just remarking on how difficult of a situation this is. Imagine if you were in court as a witness to a murder, and you saw some guy enjoying himself in the back. Obviously you're not going to put on a costume and go kill him, but what can you do? You can't tell the cops - he's not doing anything illegal. You can't follow him and monitor his every move (well, you could, but that wouldn't be too healthy either). And yes, you don't know for sure that he might go out and do something terrible.

But if he's jerking off to descriptions of a crime scene, I would say that there's a pretty good chance that he will. So how would you feel walking out of that courtroom? Could you honestly tell yourself that he's probably just a nice guy with an unusual trait? Would this not bother you for a good while? Would you be a little worried when you read the local news every morning?

I'm not suggesting a solution (like I said earlier, killing him without him having done anything seems very wrong), and I sure as hell don't know a solution. I was just trying to voice my unease of this kind of a situation, and I hope that I never run into it.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	stolisomancer 2009-08-09 06:38 pm UTC (link)
	Also, you should both note that the guy says, point-blank, that he's aware he's a cliche; he's okay with it; and even he says that sooner or later, he's going to kill someone. He's not protesting his innocence; he's taunting a cop. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ashtoreth 2009-08-09 06:43 pm UTC (link)
	Wasn't aware he was jerking off in the courtroom, thought he was just grinning. But whenever I grow disturbed by 4chan or the usenet writers that provide (perfeclty legal) kiddie porn rape fiction, I remember this: (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	taggerung301 2009-08-09 07:44 pm UTC (link)
	Well, I'm just going to end this unless there's more you want to discuss. Everyone has their own views. Agree to disagree? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-08-09 07:49 pm UTC (link)
	::bows:: (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lynxara 2009-08-08 08:18 pm UTC (link)
	This is interesting. In context Absolution comes off less as anything seriously about superheros as a literary conceit and more an exploration of what motivates police brutality (or the lack thereof). Interesting subject for a comic. I hope it does well. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	legba 2009-08-08 09:19 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, that's what I'm taking away as well. I look forward to seeing how it develops. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ian_karkull
2009-08-08 09:02 pm UTC (link)

Admittedly Dusk's actions come off much more like cold blooded murder here than before, but the criminals are still so over the top and sensationalistic (at least the comic outright admits that, which is nice) that it seems we're supposed to root for the good guy "taking out the trash."
Part of the reason I think Ennis' Punisher MAX is the only iteration that really works is that both reader and character know Frank is completely insane and his actions are monstrous, but you can't help feeling sorry for him, because the world he lives in is as fucked up as he is.
This looks far more black and white, all the police heroes are decent, upstanding citizens whereas all the criminals are vicious, baby-eating scum of the earth. It really doesn't work like that.
If the series chronicals John's slow descent into madness until he rips off the arm of a petty thief (or something to that effect), I guess it could be salvaged, but all I've seen here, looks like an ultra-violent power fantasy rooted in a double abuse of power, which frankly, I find pretty disgusting.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

stolisomancer
2009-08-08 09:21 pm UTC (link)

One of the ways you usually try to get a reader to empathize with a hero is in how the world around that hero reacts to his actions, and how the hero himself reacts. A lawbreaking superhero who the author wants the audience to empathize with, for example, often picks up a girlfriend or confidante who encourages him to go on despite society's disapproval.

John doesn't have that. In fact, his girlfriend would be forced to arrest him if she knew what he was doing. Nobody he knows would be in favor of him doing this, because as understandable as it might be, it's against the law. He just executed a man because of what he might have done.

I think you may be carrying some of your own preconceptions into the work here, honestly. You're seeing attempts at audience manipulation that I'm not.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

ian_karkull
2009-08-08 10:06 pm UTC (link)

It is probably safe to say that John's friends and colleagues will be horrified by his actions and will be eventually forced to take him down when they inadvertently find out, but as you've said, that's just one way to make the reader empathize with him and we're just not at that stage yet.
Having just been introduced to the character, we have to get to know him based on how he's presented to us and judge his actions on their own merit. From what we've seen of John he comes across as an upstanding, average guy, decent if unremarkable, a sort of everyman one would have no problem identifying with. His victims on the other hand are, without fail, despicable human beings designed to be unlikeable and one would have a hard time not acting the same way he did, if put into the same position. Even the man who technically hasn't done anything yet freely admits that it's just a matter of time and openly gloats about it. We're repeatedly told just how awful all of his victims were and how much more damage they would have done if he hadn't stopped them. I'm finding this all a bit too omnipresent to interpret it as anything but a justification of his actions.

t's obvious our readings differ from each other, but that's not a bad thing. Everybody's preconceptions play a part in how they read a text, but tackling sensitive issues in a format like that should at the very least get people talking. Discussing what you take away from a particular comic or scene in question is one of the things this community is about.
It's still very early in the series and it could go one way or the other, but based on the evidence, this is what it lloks like to me.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	thandrak 2009-08-09 12:36 am UTC (link)
	I don't think it's a justification of his actions. It's an enticement of his actions. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ashtoreth
2009-08-09 03:26 am UTC (link)

If the series is based on the writer's friend who felt the desire to kill, then it could be he wants you to feel that, by presenting obvious people who normal people would want dead, then upping the ante to an immoral act of premeditated murder for someone who is innocent, but appears the same as the others.

Not necessarily something as over the top as Venom the Lethal Protector or Punisher running around with a machine gun. If he's careful, the writer can show an interesting story.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

psychop_rex
2009-08-10 07:19 am UTC (link)

This is... I'm of two minds about this.
On the one hand, it's understandable that Dusk would want to take a more direct hand in things. One of the problems with the judicial system - ANY judicial system - is that it doesn't always do what it's supposed to do, i.e, protect the innocent and punish the guilty. Quite often the exact opposite happens- the system lets monsters slip through the cracks, and as long as they're careful, the cops can't touch 'em. It's understandable that Dusk would feel frustrated by this, and want to take a more direct hand in things.
On the other - well, this guy hasn't actually DONE anything yet, and he might never do anything. Despite what Horace is saying here, he comes off to me more like a guy with a twisted sense of humor who enjoys baiting cops than, y'know, an actual killer-in-the-making. Yeah, so he's a pyro, and he's mean to animals, and his relationship to women isn't exactly healthy - that doesn't automatically translate to 'this guy's going to kill someone'. Some people are just kinda creepy - that doesn't make them killers, that makes them creepy people. Perhaps Horace is someone that should be WATCHED, but saying you're going to do someone is not the same as actually doing it. 'Innocent until proven guilty' is a part of the rules for a REASON - you can't just chuck it out the window because of a personal suspicion.

(Reply to this)