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Tweak says, "Silence is not the way."

Doop (xdoop) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-06 23:36:00

Entry tags:

char: human torch/johnny storm, char: invisible woman/susan storm, char: mr. fantastic/reed richards, char: the thing/ben grimm, creator: jack kirby, creator: stan lee, publisher: marvel comics, title: fantastic four

Sue tries out some new hairdos.
In Fantastic Four #47, Sue feels that Reed isn't giving her enough attention. And what better way to get it than with a new hairdo?

And, after they've landed...

(Post a new comment)

	cmdr_zoom 2009-08-07 03:54 am UTC (link)
	For what it's worth, I rather like her hair in that last panel. But really, Sue, asking your brother for beauty advice? (Mind you, he's a very pretty young man, but...) Kind of wandering into Wanda and Pietro territory, don't you think? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	zordboy 2009-08-07 04:15 am UTC (link)
	Ah, Marvel. "Make mine incest! Uh, wait..." (Reply to this) (Parent)

box_in_the_box
2009-08-07 04:26 am UTC (link)

Agreed on the Johhny/Sue relationship, but not on her hair (I think Aeon Flux is the only woman who could make that work).

I'm suddenly reminded of the Bendis-and-Bagley Ultimate Spider-Man issue where Peter comes home late, finds Aunt May sitting up waiting for him with a sad look on her face, while she's wearing a sleeveless nightgown, and she says, "Do you ... like me, Peter?" In the context of the scene, I got what they were getting at, but even a few reviewers noted that it almost seemed like May was thinking to herself, "Well, he's only a few years away from 18 ..."

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	cmdr_zoom 2009-08-07 04:32 am UTC (link)
	Some of it is the expression, probably. shrug (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box, 2009-08-07 04:33 am UTC

	arilou_skiff 2009-08-07 07:40 am UTC (link)
	Uh... Really? That's weird? My siblings used to ask me advice all the time. (although usually I suspect to do the opposite, since I have a terrible fashion sense) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

dr_hermes
2009-08-07 09:10 am UTC (link)

That's scans_daily, looking for stuff that isn't there. Sometimes it's like finding a horsie or a duck in the random shape of clouds.

The casual interaction between Sue and Johnny doesn't advance the plot itself but it makes them seem human. Johnny is eating a sandwich and being sarcastic, like a real younger brother. Yet he comes over to hang out with her, not because of fantasy incest but because they're family and grew up together. The gag where he's excited about what he sees outside and she thinks it's because of her hair is nice throwaway line... typical Stan Lee adding some personality.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

cmdr_zoom, 2009-08-07 02:51 pm UTC

	halloweenjack 2009-08-07 09:10 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, come on. We're not talking "taco chip, landing strip, or Brazilian?" territory here. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	dr_hermes 2009-08-07 09:12 pm UTC (link)
	I think Kirby would have choked on his cigar if you had explained this to him, and you'd have to whack him on the back a few times... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	timgueguen 2009-08-07 04:19 am UTC (link)
	Wow, Ben implying Sue is a witch. I'm not sure what to think of that. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	mullon 2009-08-07 04:37 am UTC (link)
	Maybe he is just a Betwitched fan. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	dr_hermes 2009-08-07 09:17 am UTC (link)
	He's annoyed she made them worry for a second just to get attention. You have to read Ben's lines in a William Bendix or Peter Falk accent. A better line is when Johnny asks Ben why his parents never had any kids. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	timgueguen 2009-08-07 02:53 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I never thought about that. It's from the right era. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

dr_hermes, 2009-08-07 09:14 pm UTC

	ar_feiniel_ 2009-08-07 09:55 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, her new hairdo actually looks like the one Samantha sported in the show. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mullon 2009-08-07 04:34 am UTC (link)
	Oh, women and their priorities. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	superfan1 2009-08-07 04:54 am UTC (link)
	Going by the story. We just want to feel special once in a while. :P (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

dr_hermes, 2009-08-07 09:15 pm UTC

superfan1, 2009-08-08 03:07 am UTC

dr_hermes, 2009-08-08 03:26 am UTC

xdoop, 2009-08-08 12:45 pm UTC

dr_hermes, 2009-08-08 03:01 pm UTC

superfan1, 2009-08-09 02:24 am UTC

	kijikun 2009-08-07 06:10 am UTC (link)
	Well it is a better hair style. Also Reed? This is why she goes to Namor. Seriously. (Reply to this)

jlroberson
2009-08-07 07:39 am UTC (link)

Character who only became interesting and useful once someone writing her realized women are human beings: Sue Storm, who has been 200% improved since Lee/Kirby. In fact, she may be one of the very few Marvel characters where the Lee/Kirby version inspires no nostalgia whatsoever. The single most degradingly sexist character from an era already deeply so.

I totally loathe Stan Lee's Sue. I remember that one story that purported to defend her presence in the FF because Abraham Lincoln had a mom, so women have SOME use, apparently. Then there was the Hulk story where she said she wouldn't be much use finding the Hulk, to which Ross snorts that a pretty girl is ALWAYS of use to keep the men's morale up. To which Reed says, "That's just how WE feel about Sue." Yes, being able to whistle at an attractive ass as it walks by in tights certainly could cheer up soldiers, absolutely. Maybe comfort women too! Gick.

Byrne's in the 80s, who goes on and on about how liberated being a housewife makes her feel to a TV interviewer, isn't much better, but at least Byrne let loose the actual extent of what Sue can do. But I think Lee just made her invisible so it'd be easier to forget she was there.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

wizardru
2009-08-07 02:01 pm UTC (link)

Now, let's be fair, here: the comic shown here was created in 1966. Sue being on the team AT ALL was an accomplishment, for that point in time. Lee and Kirby did have her as the damsel-in-distress a lot, early on...but as time passed, they got better. Compare Sue's work here with, for example, any female character on Star Trek's first season, for example. Taken in context, Sue is generally pretty liberated, considering she starts the comic as a Jackie Kennedy clone and is being filtered through a comic written primarily for young boys. You also have to keep in mind that Lee's goal here was 'Heroes with Hangups', as he described the FF: Johnny the hothead with an inferiority complex, Ben the self-hating grump, Reed the cold intellectual with a guilty conscience and Sue, the girlfriend/wife who feels unappreciated. Keep in mind that Reed and Sue have only been married for a few months at the point this comic came out...and already a chronically distracted Reed is taking her for granted AGAIN.

As for Byrne's run: I think you're pulling one piece out of a distinguished run and coloring the whole thing with a broad brush. Byrne changed her from the Invisible Girl to the Invisible WOMAN, ramped up her abilities and made her a much more complex character. Sue became not just a mom, not just a wife or force to be reckoned with, as well as a capable leader in her own right.

I agree that Sue has benefited from time...but that's as much to society's changing views of women and the diversification of comic book audiences as anything else. I can't really think of many female characters in 1966 who were that more advanced than Sue. Hell, Batgirl was introduced solely as a way to show that Robin wasn't gay...and she was eliminated in 1964 (except on TV, where she was getting tied up a lot). I mean Carol Danvers around this time was Captain Marvel's love interest, like most female characters. And we don't even need to discuss what Lois Lane was like around this time.

Context, is what I'm saying.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

dr_hermes, 2009-08-07 09:22 pm UTC

	xdoop 2009-08-07 02:23 pm UTC (link)
	Byrne's in the 80s, who goes on and on about how liberated being a housewife makes her feel to a TV interviewer, isn't much better I think that scene was just Byrne trying to address Sue's previous characterizations. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

cmdr_zoom, 2009-08-07 02:52 pm UTC

scarlettwyst, 2009-08-13 01:38 am UTC

psychop_rex, 2009-08-08 04:11 am UTC

dr_hermes, 2009-08-08 04:51 am UTC

psychop_rex, 2009-08-08 07:18 am UTC

dr_hermes, 2009-08-08 02:58 pm UTC

psychop_rex, 2009-08-08 08:33 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2009-08-07 06:08 pm UTC (link)

That story was a comic bit of filler than Lee probably didn't spend too much time fine-tuning. It also has him giving two different versions of the beginning of Reed and Sue's relationship in two consecutive panels.

The part you're referring to is clumsily done, but it's more than just "Lincoln had a mom." It's Reed responding to a fan letter-very angrily, it might be worth pointing out-that essentially said "Why do you have Sue on the team, her powers are useless." Reed's answer was in two stages. 1) Your premise is wrong. You don't need powers to be useful. 2) Your premise, even if it were right, wouldn't apply here because Sue has been a valuable active member of the time. One of the examples given was the same one that Byrne used, her saving them when they met Dr. Doom.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

dr_hermes, 2009-08-07 09:11 pm UTC

psychop_rex, 2009-08-08 04:16 am UTC

dr_hermes, 2009-08-08 04:57 am UTC

psychop_rex, 2009-08-08 07:22 am UTC

dr_hermes, 2009-08-08 02:55 pm UTC

psychop_rex, 2009-08-08 08:30 pm UTC

	scarlettwyst 2009-08-13 01:43 am UTC (link)
	from that to http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/05/4five.jpg (i am too noob to make it be a picture :(() You have come a long way, baby. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

jlroberson, 2009-08-13 01:47 am UTC

	Then there were the other ways she liberated herself ashtoreth 2009-08-08 03:23 am UTC (link)
	(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Then there were the other ways she liberated herself psychop_rex 2009-08-08 04:12 am UTC (link)
	This is while she was being taken over by Malice, right? 'Cause that costume really is pretty terrible. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Then there were the other ways she liberated herself -

ashtoreth, 2009-08-08 04:31 am UTC

Re: Then there were the other ways she liberated herself -

psychop_rex, 2009-08-08 07:15 am UTC

Re: Then there were the other ways she liberated herself -

ashtoreth, 2009-08-08 03:06 pm UTC

Re: Then there were the other ways she liberated herself -

psychop_rex, 2009-08-08 08:36 pm UTC

Re: Then there were the other ways she liberated herself -

ashtoreth, 2009-08-09 02:36 am UTC

Re: Then there were the other ways she liberated herself -

psychop_rex, 2009-08-09 02:47 am UTC

	proteus_lives 2009-08-08 07:03 am UTC (link)
	Man, Reed was a dick back in the day. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	dr_hermes 2009-08-08 02:53 pm UTC (link)
	Yep, they all had flaws. Reed was short-tempered and distracted, Ben was self-pitying and tempramental, Johnny was impulsive and vain, and Sue was wiahy-washy and superficial. Kind of like real people. Over the years, the characterizations seem to have become sort of bland and generic. (Reply to this) (Parent)