InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "No, I'm ...doesn't!"

serenity_winner (serenity_winner) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-07-16 13:56:00

Entry tags:

char: poison ivy/pamela isley, char: swamp thing/alec holland, publisher: dc comics, theme: dcau, title: batman adventures

The Truth About Poison Ivy
A bit of Harley/Ivy discussion brought this issue of The Batman Adventures to my attention; it addresses the design change Ivy underwent in Batman TAS, and while it's a really interesting explanation, it's also horribly depressing (to me). In addition, it features Alec Holland, the man who would become Swamp Thing.

A bit of set-up: in the previous chapter Batgirl sprayed Ivy with weedkiller, leaving her weak and injured.

(Post a new comment)

	espanolbot 2009-07-16 06:13 pm UTC (link)
	Aw, I remember this story. :( Could you post the one where Nora Fries' husband hides Victor's letters to her, which causes him to move to the North Pole as he thinks that she doesn't love him any more? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	darklorelei 2009-07-16 09:49 pm UTC (link)
	...I need to see this. DCAU Victor is my faaaavorite. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	smarmyimp 2009-07-16 06:15 pm UTC (link)
	::sadface:: Though Ivy here displays that unique mixture of empathy and sociopathy that makes her interesting, albeit flipped around a little from her usual. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	rezonantshine 2009-07-16 06:30 pm UTC (link)
	It's the emotionally-detached intelligence that's throwing off the flavor. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	hyperactivator 2009-07-16 06:19 pm UTC (link)
	Nice tidbit. (Reply to this)

	sistermagpie 2009-07-16 06:38 pm UTC (link)
	... ... !!! :-( (Reply to this) (Thread)

	runespoor7 2009-07-16 07:44 pm UTC (link)
	D: (Reply to this) (Parent)

xdoop
2009-07-16 06:46 pm UTC (link)

The writer of the issue, Ty Templeton, said this on Toonzone.

The Ivy Clone was substituted whenever you want her to be, but in my mind, it was somewhere between the last issue of Gotham Adventures and the first issue of the New Batman Adventures. (The Harley /Ivy mini is therefore, "safe" and is STILL about the original Ivy, since it was written and drawn years ago.)

I had in mind that it was not the real Ivy back in Batman Adventures (vol2), issue one, when she's stabbed in Arkham and survives it. That was the point of the stabbing scene.

In the recent issue, on the last page, we back dated Pamela's look to an earlier BTAS design to suggest she's no longer super-powered, and has reverted back to her more human form in retirement... (I figure the toxins and serums would eventually work their way out of her system and she'd revert to an earlier form.) Also, it was a much quicker shorthand in a story that's only four pages long, to distinguish which Ivy was which.

But I wouldn't retcon away two seasons worth of appearances by Ivy. That would be rude. So, in my mind, the plant monster version shows up first in Batman Adventures (vol2) #1, when Dan and I started writing it... Every other Ivy story is still intact.

Or...you can believe it's been a clone since season two. That's part of the fun of the ending.

http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1355934&postcount=18

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	serenity_winner 2009-07-16 06:53 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, he is so kind to my poor shipper heart. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-07-16 08:09 pm UTC (link)
	As someone who never warmed to the redesign of Ivy in the series (the point of Poison Ivy is that she's beautiful but lethal, green white skin is NOT beautiful, at best it cadaverous) I loved this moment. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	btravage.livejournal.com 2009-07-16 09:46 pm UTC (link)
	"green white skin is NOT beautiful, at best it cadaverous" What kind of nerd are you? Exotic skin tones have been a stable of the sub-culture sense at least Star Trek. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-07-16 09:50 pm UTC (link)
	I differentiate between skintones that could be said to be "exotic" (though as a gay male nerd, the only place I ever noticed that sort of exotic was the Legion of Superheroes) and "approaching necrophiliac". The Poison Ivy revamp just made her look "deceased" to me, rather than "exotic". (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kitty_tc_69 2009-07-16 09:54 pm UTC (link)
	Dude, Star Trek. The green dancing girls. How could you not know about them? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-07-16 10:33 pm UTC (link)

Of course I know about Orion slave girls, my comment about the fact I'm a gay guy should highlight that we never saw any Orion dancing BOYS in Trek.

Besides, Orion's are emerald green, a colour not even close to human so yes that is exotic, no problem there, and Brainiac-5 wears in well.

Poison Ivy as shown in the Batman Animated revamp was not nearly such a vivid shade. She was pale-greenish white which to me just looks like a "normal" corpse (or how I imagine one). The fact she shifted to a slightly stronger green in the DCAU comics doesn't change the fact I didn't find either shade attractive.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kitty_tc_69 2009-07-16 10:55 pm UTC (link)
	That's interesting, as corpsepaint used in both the goth/blackmetal scene and in cinematic-style zombie makeup utilize blues and purples far more commonly to indicate death. Sometimes you'll see a green-grey in truly decomposed cases, but in the fresher ones it's almost always blues and purples to suggest the look of oxygen-deprived skin. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-07-17 02:26 am UTC (link)
	The blue-white look is clean dead. Vamps are finicky. Green-white implies moldy, mossy and is more for zombie types. (Reply to this) (Parent)

kitty_tc_69
2009-07-16 09:52 pm UTC (link)

I have to agree... plant!Ivy is inhuman, but still beautiful in her way and deeply sympathetic... the pleading and pain and terror in her eyes as she's dying is just heartwrenching. And the blond guy's refusal to help and shying away from her instead of reaching out to her in empathy is cold and brutal. What a bastard.

Poor, poor thing... she thought, and felt pain and fear... she knew she was dying... she was a person. She deserved better than to be swept up off the floor like a dropped plate of dinner.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	outlawpoet 2009-07-16 10:13 pm UTC (link)
	I and Captain Kirk respectfully disagree. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	blake_reitz 2009-07-16 07:28 pm UTC (link)
	I love this bit. (Reply to this)

	jlroberson 2009-07-16 09:50 pm UTC (link)
	I'm a bit confused by the timeline though. I was under the impression that (a) Alec Holland has been, like, dead a long time, and (b) she became Poison Ivy AFTER working under him, whereas here it's something she was once but isn't anymore. In fact, I think she was just his student, right? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-07-16 09:52 pm UTC (link)
	This is DCAU, Alec Holland had never even been seen before AFAIK. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-07-16 10:10 pm UTC (link)
	So there's no animated Swamp Thing then. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	thokstar 2009-07-16 10:17 pm UTC (link)
	Well, there is a Swamp Thing cartoon. Just not in the DCAU. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-07-16 10:36 pm UTC (link)
	DCAU, no. It's possible that one may have appeared in one of the the various DCAU comics (After all, those included AU Impulse and Connor Hawke Green Arrow in various stories, and a Huntress who predates her JLU incarnation), but in the BTAS titles we never saw Holland or Swamp Thing. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-07-17 02:28 am UTC (link)
	AU Impulse and Connor Hawke Green Arrow in various stories Really? When? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-07-17 07:03 am UTC (link)
	For one, Adventures in the DC Uuniverse 13 :) The whole series was devoted to DCAU stories (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-07-17 12:30 pm UTC (link)
	:D! Thanks! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-07-17 04:18 pm UTC (link)
	No probs, I have #13 somewhere, so I'll see if I can dig it out and give it a scan (Reply to this) (Parent)

retro_nouveau
2009-07-16 10:32 pm UTC (link)

Sure, you could get all weepy over green girl, but I say yay! Now there's two Ivys, with the same intelligence, knowledge, life experiences? Cool! Sweep up green girl and dump her in the swamp... Same thing with Matt Hagen over and over and over again, she'll be back! Sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. Green girl is much more fun than the cool, reserved doctor who tried to bump off Bruce and Harvey anyway. :D

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	kitty_tc_69 2009-07-16 10:58 pm UTC (link)
	I wish I could be so hopeful, but she looked to be quite dead and gone in this story. Poor lil thing. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	retro_nouveau 2009-07-17 02:53 am UTC (link)
	Yes, the artist captures the Timm style very nicely, and the emotions of plant!Pam just pull you in. Compare and contrast to peachy-pink!Pam's ennui. Ivy vs. Ivy, it could happen... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	platedlizard 2009-07-17 04:16 am UTC (link)
	That's the nice thing about plants. Sometimes they look extremely dead, only to come back to life when circumstances are more favorable. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	galateus 2009-07-17 02:08 am UTC (link)
	For a sec, I read that "Harvey" as "Harley (D: what episode was that OMG)" Casually-cold-hearted Dr. Isley is awesome, but not if she were that cold-hearted. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	retro_nouveau 2009-07-17 03:01 am UTC (link)
	Pam hurt Harley? Never! Uh... except for the time she threw a beaker at Harley's head... um, and when she banged Harley's head on the floor, ... uh, where was I going with this? Oh, yeah - Pam's still a better girlfriend than The Joker is as a boyfriend, anyway! :) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	galateus 2009-07-17 12:21 pm UTC (link)
	Abusive, but not murderous! She's like the third bear's porridge, in a way. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ashtoreth 2009-07-17 02:28 am UTC (link)
	There's a chance! Uprooted Ivy might've just needed fertilizer and some rest. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	retro_nouveau 2009-07-17 02:54 am UTC (link)
	And some sun. A chance is all I ask! :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	platedlizard 2009-07-17 04:18 am UTC (link)
	She needs sun, so put her under some grow lights! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	404glitch 2009-07-17 08:21 am UTC (link)
	The joke with Ivy's last line here being that in the primary story, Harley had sworn bloody vengeance on her for stopping the Joker from marrying her (with Batman and Batgirl's help, of course). (Reply to this)

	captain_clown 2009-07-17 10:57 am UTC (link)
	God that's a bittersweet ending. (Reply to this)

	silverzeo 2009-07-18 05:44 am UTC (link)
	Wow.... Harley is going to kill her... or have her car driven through her lab so the two can have a heart to heart about it. (Reply to this)