InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "I Like Ike!"

arbre_rieur (arbre_rieur) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-07-05 16:12:00

Entry tags:

char: superboy, creator: cary bates, creator: joe staton

"The Shadow of Jor-El"

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jlroberson
2009-07-05 11:27 pm UTC (link)

I remember this. I also thought CLARK was a dick for saying that. "Clark" is the name this parent gave him, so shut up.

What I didn't like about this period of Superman's history is that this Supes lacked the human heart that Morrison retroactively (and smartly)gives him in All-Star--he was far too comfortable with being an alien. And really, this Supes, is he using these people as anything more than hosts, the way he talks here?

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	blake_reitz 2009-07-06 01:06 am UTC (link)
	You bring up an excellent point what with Morrison adding the Superman's human heart. I don't know if we saw Superman show anything like human empathy until at least late bronze age. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

cmdr_zoom
2009-07-06 01:55 am UTC (link)

It was, of all things, a result of the post-Crisis reimagining. Prior to that, both Batman and Superman were more "real" than their civilian alter-egos; Byrne and those who followed him flipped that around for the Man of Steel, who was once known to his close friends as Kal, not as Clark. Some of it was independent evolution of the character, some deliberate contrast to DC's other flagship character, setting up the "two sides of a coin" thing that finds its strongest expression in Superman/Batman.

As someone who prefers the DCAU version in almost all cases, I definitely prefer a Superman who's not a distant space-god, as well as a Bruce who's a bit cranky and very damaged but still has some humanity to him.

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psychop_rex
2009-07-07 09:13 pm UTC (link)

Actually, Superman used to show quite a bit of human empathy in the Golden Age (once he was past, eh, his early rambunctious phase where he tossed around cars to demonstrate traffic safety - and even then, he had his moments). Jerry Seigel may have written him as a tad remote, but his Superman was a really nice guy - as were his Lois, Jimmy, etc. The problem is, after that came the Weisinger area, and Weisinger (this is true) actively HATED the character he was in charge of - later in life, he went through therapy, and it turns out he had some series inadequacy issues which dealing with the adventures of the strongest man in the world only exacerbated. Combine that with the fact that he himself was a thoroughly obnoxious character, and it's no wonder that Superman was basically portrayed as a jerk for so many years - Weisinger projected his own dickishness onto the character, and later writers took this as their cue to do the same thing. Morrison didn't ADD the human heart; it was there all the time - it just got obscured by the Silver Age.

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blake_reitz
2009-07-07 11:28 pm UTC (link)

I'd heard some interesting things about Weisinger before, and that doesn't surprise me too much. I remember hearing about how he drove for Lois's transformation from "hard-edged competent reporter who takes no guff!" to, well, Silver-Age Lois. Very cool info, though. I'm curious to see Golden Age Superman's more humane side, since he (like most Golden Agers) didn't get a lot of character-building time, it was pretty much adventure after mission after never-ending battle.

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psychop_rex
2009-07-08 12:08 am UTC (link)

Mainly, I think it was just that he was more relatable. In the Silver Age, Superman writers relied pretty heavily on story formulas - Superman JUST manages to avoid having his secret identity revealed, Lois ALMOST manages to rope him into marriage, Superman 'teaches someone a *shudder* lesson', etc., etc. These were repeated over and over again, to the point where you could predict the *gasp* SHOCKING SURPRISE several pages away from where it actually turned up. He basically became a deus ex machina in his own adventures. In the Golden Age, Superman was much more human - he enjoyed himself, he indulged in a wisecrack every now and then, and Kryptonite was much less of a factor early on, so villains had a tougher time beating him, which, paradoxically enough, made him more vulnerable. You see, it was taken for granted that it was practically impossible to beat him physically, so villains largely tried to outwit or humiliate him instead - hence the rise of such villains as the Prankster and the Toyman, not to mention, of course, Mr. Mxyzptlk. As a result, Superman had to use his noggin - he outsmarted his villains more than he punched them. In short, the comic was much more about him as a character than him as a plot device - the formulas that were used so often in the Silver Age were still there, of course, but they didn't feel worn out yet, and didn't show up as often.

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	cmdr_zoom 2009-07-05 11:28 pm UTC (link)
	I can't follow this at all, so it must by Krypton Logic and not the Earth kind. (Reply to this)

icon_uk
2009-07-05 11:36 pm UTC (link)

Okay, I can understand Jonathan's point at the start, Clark is being something of a pillock.

The narrators logic at the end is insane though, from what I can work out, it means; "If Jor-El had been focussed on saving as many people as possible instead of his son, he'd have been doing the right thing". Except that Jor-El TRIED to save as many people as possible with his, he was forbidden from doing so by the Council.

Personally I always thought spending his last minutes on Krypton flying around with a very large Phantom Zone Projector attached to his flying car would have saved a damnsight more people with a lot less effort)

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	khaosworks 2009-07-06 03:57 pm UTC (link)
	I vaguely remember some kind of half-hearted excuse made for why Jor-El didn't do just that - something about radiation or sunspot activity conveniently making the Phantom Zone inaccessible or somesuch. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

bruinsfan
2009-07-06 06:54 pm UTC (link)

I don't know... the Phantom Zone was regarded as the ultimate punishment on Krypton, wasn't it? And with the planet about to go kablooey, along with anyone who could release the non-criinals from the Zone afterwards...

I remember seeing some Legion story that dredged up a lot of the trauma Mon-El underwent due to 1,000 years in the Phantom Zone. Jor-El may have seen it as kinder to let the Kryptonians die naturally.

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	Ugh, Inking jlroberson 2009-07-06 12:10 am UTC (link)
	God, Frank Chiramonte. The only man who made Vince Colletta look like he cared. When I was a kid I always winced when I saw his name on the credits(SO many issues of Legion he wrecked). I always assumed they used him because he was fast. Because I can't imagine anyone inking that way slow. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Ugh, Inking perletwo 2009-07-06 02:38 am UTC (link)
	And for Superboy and the Legion, they used to have him ink over Jimmy Janes. If this is what he does to Staton's lovely structured figures, you can imagine how well that worked out. Yucko. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Ugh, Inking jlroberson 2009-07-06 02:46 am UTC (link)
	I don't have to imagine. It's a trauma I cannot block out. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Ugh, Inking perletwo 2009-07-06 02:57 am UTC (link)
	The very worst part about it was, those were almost always the issues they'd put those gorgeously rendered early George Perez covers on top of. Man, talk about your bait and switch! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Ugh, Inking jlroberson 2009-07-06 03:54 am UTC (link)
	Cockrum covers too. It's like they were taunting you with what could be. This would probably explain just why Keith Giffen's run was so very loved. Besides that--at least then--it looked great, look at what he was following. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Ugh, Inking perletwo 2009-07-06 03:59 am UTC (link)
	Yep, like with Perez's NTT run at the same time, he put so much obvious love and care into every tiny detail it just jumped out from the rest of the pack (i.e., Janes/Chiaramonte et al). (Reply to this) (Parent)

sistermagpie
2009-07-06 12:22 am UTC (link)

I love Pa Kent in the beginning and then he goes insane. I feel totally sorry for him when he's acting like he's anything other than Clark's real father. Then he has this bizarre instance where he's like "Of course I knew if I called you you would come straight to me, but after this that's a bad thing to do!" Um, Jonathan? That's not just about Clark caring about you in a special way because you're his father (which is a good thing) but because he trusts your judgment. You called him to something important and he listened.

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psychop_rex
2009-07-07 09:26 pm UTC (link)

The problem with a lot of these stories - both in the Silver Age and the ones that harken back to them - is that they start out with a strong hook, but then don't know how the hell to wrap things up. There'll be a terrific beginning that grabs your attention ('Oh, no! Lex Luthor has siphoned away Superman's powers for himself! How will Superman beat his superpowered arch-villain with no powers himself?'), then the story ambles along for a bit ('I, Luthor, shall turn Mount Rushmore into a GIANT MONUMENT TO MYSELF! Just try and stop me, EX-Superman!'), and then we get to the last page, and plot points scramble all over themselves and trip each other up in order to be resolved in the very last panel ('You see, Luthor, I was only PRETENDING to have lost my powers, and you didn't really gain mine - it was all the result of a comet giving off unknown radiation passing too close to Earth. As it happened, you happened to be stroking Mr. Diabolical, your persian cat, at the exact moment you pulled the lever and the comet's rays struck you. The combination of energy from your fizzled experiment, the comet's radiations and the static electricity generated by the cat's fur gave you powers that were a remarkable simulation of mine - and that you would have kept, if you'd just kept stroking cats! But since you refused to do any good deeds with your superpowers, such as rescuing cats from trees, you came into contact with none of them - and you've lost your powers for good! Ha ha, the jokes on you!') This would seem to be a less extreme example of the same thing.

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	sistermagpie 2009-07-07 09:35 pm UTC (link)
	That was some brilliant Silver Age storytelling right there. Well done! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-07-07 09:46 pm UTC (link)
	It's not all that difficult - you read enough of those stories, and they practically write themselves. Thanks, though! (Reply to this) (Parent)

blake_reitz
2009-07-06 01:05 am UTC (link)

There was a little bit of dickery here, but true superdickery would have been Kal-El going "oh, so I shouldn't have saved you, Dad? As you wish!" and tossing him back into the pit with a deadly meteorite. Since this was the silver age, I suspect that the meteorite would mutate Pa into some sort of horrible insect worm monster who rampages across Smallville until Superboy picks up his room or something.

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	lady_mondegreen 2009-07-06 01:41 am UTC (link)
	"Stop calling me by my white man name, Pa!" (Reply to this)

	jlroberson 2009-07-06 02:10 am UTC (link)
	Why would his mind-prober help him with this? Did Jor-El take the baby with him to work? Did he keep the baby in the lab? And did he have super-recall while still on Krypton when, oh, his mind was developing? I have a feeling this is more his fantasy-prober. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	merseybeatler 2009-07-06 03:31 am UTC (link)
	chortles Fantasy-prober, eh? Where can I get one-a those? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-07-06 03:55 am UTC (link)
	Allow me to rephrase. No, wait, I won't. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-07-06 04:56 am UTC (link)
	If we had a Finger Longer we could ALL see those things! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-07-06 06:54 am UTC (link)
	Superman had absolute super recall in operation essentially from the time of his birth, the mind-probe helped him retreive memories he wasn't aware he had. And Jor-El worked at home, so yes, Kal has a lot of memories of him, though like a good father he did take Kal with him on trips. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Aha! jlroberson 2009-07-06 10:47 am UTC (link)
	The smell from Kal's diaper was the reason they didn't take his warnings seriously! SUPERBABY IS A DICK! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	redsilkscarf 2009-07-06 03:09 am UTC (link)
	Good to see that Superdickery runs in the family. While unrelated to him biologically, Clark truly is Jonathan's son. (Reply to this)

	superfan1 2009-07-06 06:48 am UTC (link)
	Boy superboy was being a insensitive jerk in the beginning and felt pa kent emotional pain. Then the pa insane plot happen at the end, afterward I'm just eh but aww was they walk on the last panel. (It must of been me, but I had a big chuckle at superboy describing pa of having pms) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-07-06 09:51 am UTC (link)
	Insensitive whiny weeping emo jerk. If someone doesn't make that an icon I'm surprised. "Sniff! You called me by the wrong name!" "Jesus son, shut it." "YOU BURN NOW!" (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	superfan1 2009-07-06 10:01 am UTC (link)
	So superboy have Borderline personality disorder,that explains alot about pre-crisis superboy lol. :P "Then pa insane plot happen at the end. Then afterwards I'm just eh but awwing as they walk off into the sunset in the last panel." (Cries at my inability to write sometimes.) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jlroberson 2009-07-06 11:01 am UTC (link)
	I should be using Photoshop to finish lettering a page. Not to goof around with crap like this for your dubious entertainment. Should but didn't. Icon to first one to yoink it. Please read the filename. (Reply to this)

	milleniumrex 2009-07-06 01:25 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, this must be the classic Imaginary tale "The Super-Douches of Smallville!". (Reply to this)

	And more jlroberson 2009-07-06 11:15 pm UTC (link)
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	dreadedlurker 2009-07-06 11:34 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you Byrne, for lovely gentle reboot CLARK KENT who loves his parents and for whom Superman is a "job" and not an "identity." (I actually think it was L&C Clark that said "Clark Kent is who I am. Superman is what I can do." That's how I like to think of Clark and that's why these old comics often rub me the wrong way.) (Reply to this) (Thread)

jlroberson
2009-07-07 01:30 am UTC (link)

I had no problem with that part of Byrne--it was throwing out so much of the "silly" stuff(which they've been restoring ever since) I had a problem with.

And this is what Tarantino gets wrong in KILL BILL. Superman COULD have been that, it's true. But he had these parents, and so he does think of himself as Clark. And thank god for that. Imagine otherwise. This Clark--really, it's just lack of imagination that kept him from being a monster. He was, by the 70s, alien and remote, and much like Chris Ware's "Super-Man," who's like a malevolent, capricious God.

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arbre_rieur
2009-07-07 10:40 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, as Byrne once describe it, "Every time Superman celebrated a Kryptonian holiday or performed a Kryptonian custom, it was like he was spitting on the graves of Ma and Pa Kent." He said it reminded him of those people who insist on referring to themselves as something-Americans and not just simply Americans.

So he made the rather clever move of making Krypton a sterile, lifeless world that no sane person whose customs no sane person would ever want to emulate, nicely circumventing the whole problem.

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