InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "eloping to canada = romantical"

cyberghostface (cyberghostface) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-06-29 14:26:00

Entry tags:

char: green goblin/harry osborn, char: green goblin/norman osborn, char: gwen stacy, char: spider-man/peter parker, creator: gerry conway, creator: gil kane, creator: stan lee, title: amazing spider-man

Norman and Harry

Be warned, I discuss events in Amazing Spider-Man #598, so if you haven't read it...

So in the recent issue of Amazing, Norman states his big plans for his son. Harry is to work alongside him as the American Son. And if Harry screws up...well, Norman will have him killed.

...huh?

I know, I know. Norman's the resident EEEEVIILLL bastard over at Marvel now. But I still don't think Norman was ever that bad that he'd kill his own son. Belittle him, maybe. Try to make him into a 'man' worthy of his father? Definitely. But murder? No. I still think that, on some level, Norman still cares for his son. Anyone remember the Ultimate Green Goblin? It's a different universe, sure, but when he unwittingly killed Harry over there, he was so emotionally devastated that he effectively committed suicide when he found out what he did.

Now, let's turn the clock all the way back to exactly 500 issues ago with Amazing Spider-Man #98. Norman has just regained his memory of being the Green Goblin, and attacks Peter, who is with Harry. Harry is recovering from a drug overdose.

Anyway, later in the issue, when the two are fighting again (thanks to the Goblin's weapon, Spider-Man's not able to crawl walls)...

And, later in #121 (everyone should know what happens here)...

And we all know what happens here, so I'll stop for now. But its clear that Norman's anguish over Harry's illness is one of the leading factors that causes his mind to snap and bring the Goblin persona back.

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	besamim 2009-06-29 03:40 pm UTC (link)
	Wow. I didn't know that was the immediate lead-up to...what happens to Gwen. So the "cure"--reminding Norman of Harry's suffering--was as bad as, if not worse, than the disease. Even though I'm a DC man, I sometimes forget that Marvel at its best has been just as capable of powerful, moving--and, in this case, genuinely tragic--storytelling. Thanks for posting this. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	cyberghostface 2009-06-29 04:41 pm UTC (link)
	Thanks! Glad you liked it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sandoz_iscariot 2009-06-29 04:04 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, for the days when Norman wasn't a parody of himself. (Reply to this)

	blake_reitz 2009-06-29 05:00 pm UTC (link)
	For all his posturing, I still don't think Osborn would kill Harry. He might brag about it (and the Goblin might just be unbalanced enough to actually do it), but it's far more likely he'd keep him on ice till his next big plan. (Reply to this) (Thread)

jlroberson
2009-06-29 05:09 pm UTC (link)

I'm not really sure what to call Norman. He's evil, sure, but there's much more to him; in fact, he might be the ultimate expression of Marvel's complex concept of a villain, or a character in general, in that they've never really gone in for the DC "good vs. evil" thing. (Conflict in the MU is usually more about competing interests.)

Always liked this story. But how does Norman's MASK sweat?

Also, been wondering in THUNDERBOLTS for a long time who Moonstone reminds me of. Then I heard the voice. Now I know. Morgan Fairchild.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

blake_reitz
2009-06-29 06:30 pm UTC (link)

I forget who, but someone said that the protagonist of Dark Reign is really Norman, which I think is something the better writers at Marvel realize. Sure, he's an evil genius who's now in control of the most powerful military peacekeeping organization on the face of the planet, but he's also WAY OUT OF HIS LEAGUE. Despite putting together his little Cabel, he's not on the level of Doom or Magneto. He spent his time fighting Peter Parker, who can't even shoot energy blasts! Who does not even have a flying car!

And when you start to look at it outside of the Marvel universe, Osborn is kind of an underachiever who's long-term plans never got much further then "fuck with this low-level likeable super-hero who can't even hold down a job." And that's what I think could be (but likely won't) be the best part of Dark Reign, the little shark that by luck and scheme gets tossed in the ocean. The part of the ocean that has really, really big sharks.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-06-29 08:49 pm UTC (link)
	Big sharks who aren't mentally crippled. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ar_feiniel_
2009-06-29 06:06 pm UTC (link)

Ever since his resurrection Norman has been a lot more ruthless, so I actually could see him willing to kill Harry. Originally Norman was a greedy businessman and sorta crappy father who only went batshit insane evil because of the GG serum -- with the convenient Osborn Amnesia giving him periods of relative decency. Post-resurrection it's usually implied that he's always been a nasty bastard who just needed the serum to push him over the edge into flying on a glider and carrying pumpkin bombs in a pink sachel.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-06-29 08:50 pm UTC (link)
	He was always a nasty bastard. You may recall how he screwed over Prof. Stromm. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-06-30 12:48 am UTC (link)
	But if you believe him, he did that because he was driven to succeed by any means possible, so he could provide a good life and education for his son. This is what he told Spidey, anyway, back in the good ol' days, just after he'd unmasked for the first time. (Reply to this) (Parent)

jlroberson
2009-06-29 08:53 pm UTC (link)

Do you know what I have ALways liked about Norman's insanity?

His may be the only insanity, except maybe the Sentry's, in the MU or for that matter the DCU as well, that seems like the real thing. Which is to say it's scary, somewhat ill-defined, and most of all, SAD.

The Joker's is a kind no one ever had. Crazy Jane's was...well, I won't go there. But in Norm's and the Sentry's case, it seems like a real sickness, that they're helpless to stop and that makes them miserable.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	joysweeper 2009-07-01 01:13 am UTC (link)
	That's a good point. Insanity IRL really doesn't look like fun, not for more than a little while. I don't mind seeing some fictional madness, but I like it when it's more than just the sole motivation(I kill people because I'm mad!)/reason for doing stupid things/cause for making characters babble. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

jlroberson
2009-07-01 03:01 am UTC (link)

The thing is that we like to think that insanity is somehow the same as being visionary or eccentric, and it's not, any more than losing a leg means your other leg now has super jumping powers. It's having a brain that is not working the way it needs to; it's being crippled in a way. And it's very sad and painful for the person who has it. The way it's romanticized, I think, trivializes that.

Norman, when it comes right down to it, IS in over his head and is not really equipped for all this. And when he goes crazy, his brain just breaks.

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	venommelendez 2009-07-25 10:59 pm UTC (link)
	Don't buy it. Normàn is a complete mosnter and the worst dad ever. All around horrible human being. Him wanting to kill his own Son is not above him and it's not the first time he's thought about it. Trying to kill his own son is completely in his character, because he's a monster. He's that insane. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	cyberghostface 2009-07-25 11:54 pm UTC (link)
	When has Norman tried to kill Harry before Bland New Day started? (Reply to this) (Parent)

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