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rabican ([info]rabican) wrote in [info]scans_daily,
@ 2009-06-06 16:05:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:admin: mod post, admin: resources

An apology, and some ground to cover.
(cross-posted to noscans_daily)

I'd like to start this post by apologizing to the members of this community, particularly those who are fans of color, for having dismissed the impact of [info]cissie_king's words in her post on NoScans Daily last Friday. I failed to recognize people's legitimate complaints in my private response to [info]box_in_the_box, and although my words weren't meant in harm, this did not mitigate their hurtful and racist effects.

As a whole, the moderation team would like to apologize for the manner in which [info]box_in_the_box was banned. He was on his last chance in terms of conduct, but banning him for his response to [info]cissie_king had the effect of silencing his protest to [info]cissie_king's hurtful words. This, too, was a racist action, and its consequence was that many of our members became worried and feared that their speaking out against discrimination, in that post or elsewhere in the future, would be silenced as well. When encountering instances of racism (or any other kind of discrimination), we have to be more understanding and flexible in our moderation, and realize that the reaction to discrimination can be full of anger and hurt, and rightfully so.

As a result of the discussion coming from [info]cissie_king's post and the mod post we made last Saturday, and concerns raised by members on the community and elsewhere, we're making some changes. We understand that there's been confusion and worry about the rules and our methods of moderation overall, and we hope that the improvements we've made will better serve you all and make for a happier, healthier community.

We can't realistically guarantee that the community is an entirely safe space, completely free from any and all discrimination or prejudice, but our aim is to make it a safer space for everyone. Unfortunately, we haven't been doing the best job of it. After reading many of your comments, having longer discussions with some of you, and talking to some of the moderators of [info]debunkingwhite and [info]foc_u - and thank you, everyone who took the time to speak with us - we're enacting some policy changes that we hope will help us continue to strive toward making NoScans Daily and Scans Daily safer spaces.

As moderators it should be our responsibility to provide members with information or resources about discrimination to offending commenters/posters, and take the appropriate discplinary measures when necessary, and so we're in the process of compiling a list of resources that the moderators plan to use as tools in future situations where issues relating to privilege, discrimination, prejudice and oppression are raised.

There were also a number of concerns raised last week about warnings and discipline. This included worries about the lack of transparency in the system, the new double-ban policy, concerns about a lack of even-handedness in the moderation and confusion over how much venting is acceptable under community rules.

All of these issues, as well as the status of [info]box_in_the_box and [info]cissie_king's membership are addressed in this post. Since it gets rather long, we've divided it up into different sections, each of which has its own lj-cut.


NEW COMMUNITY ETHOS.

The following now constitutes our community ethos in both Scans Daily and NoScans Daily, as quoted in full:

1. 1. Scans Daily was founded by girl geeks, and members of slash fandom but now strives to provide an atmosphere which is LGBT-friendly, anti-racist, anti-ableist, woman-friendly and otherwise discrimination and harrassment free. The moderation team is always striving to make it a safer space for all fans, but this is not a safe space. Members come from all walks of life to talk about and share extracts from comics, and not all of them are on the same page regarding anti-oppression theory. Calling out other members or creators for discriminatory or oppressive behavior is encouraged for the good of the community.

Note: Please contact a moderator immediately if you see another member making discriminatory remarks.

Soon to come: a resource list of links for those seeking more information about anti-oppression theory.

2. Do not make personal attacks or insults* in posts or comments. This applies to comments to both other members in the community and the creators whose work is being discussed. We welcome critical opinions, but please try to concentrate on the work rather than the person. It's perfectly fine to disagree with others and to express your own opinions, but if you can't do so without resorting to personal attacks or passive aggression, then that's probably a sign that you should take a step back from the conversation. Our aim is to create an atmosphere where members can be passionate about comics in all ways, and don't feel personally threatened by others. Threats or wishes of bodily harm upon other community members or creators, even in jest, will not be tolerated.

[Coming soon, FAQ posts on appropriate and inappropriate commentary. For now, refer to the section below on venting and "sanitization" of the communities.]

*Please note that calling out other members for discriminatory behavior is NOT considered a personal attack here at Scans Daily. For our specific policy on discriminatory behavior, please refer to rule #1.

If you see someone making insulting comments, contact a moderator to let them know about it.

3. NSD respects our members' rights to privacy and control over their online identities. As far as we're concerned you are your pseudonym. Trolling and attempts to dismiss other posters on the basis of their "hiding behind a fake name" will not be tolerated. Unauthorized public release of a fellow member's contact information will result in immediate banning.


WARNINGS AND THE BAN SYSTEM.

One of the concerns raised was the lack of transparency and sometime confusion regarding official warnings. The new system, as described in our amended policy aims to clarify what constitutes an official warning, under what circumstances an official warning will be given and under what circumstances a user will be banned. We aim to be more transparent so all users can see when a warning has been given and at what level.

Another issue members raised concerns about was the "dual banning" system, where a warning or ban on either Scans Daily or NoScans Daily would carry over to the other community. On this, we realize that we put this policy into effect without consultation or making it clear to our members, and that the policy is not a popular one. For this we apologize. That rule has been repealed and any official warnings or bans given from now or previously will only apply on the community in which they are given.

In addition, as suggested by [info]tavella, we have made an expiration time for warnings official policy. Warnings will be wiped from the system after 6 months, meaning those who receive three warnings in, for example, three years aren't treated the same as those who get three in a week.

Members should also note that the suspension period for a second warning has been increased from one to two weeks.

STATUS OF THOSE BANNED ON FRIDAY.

With the change to policy above, obviously there were two members - [info]box_in_the_box and [info]cissie_king who were banned from both communities. These double-bannings have been overturned. However, it is our understanding that [info]cissie_king has opted to terminate her membership entirely while [info]box_in_the_box has informed us that he wishes the ban on NoScans_Daily to remain in place currently as a "cooling off" period, a decision we have respected and agreed with. We will review the status of the ban after a suitable period of time.


ON VENTING, AND "SANITIZATION."

Another concern raised by members was the "sanitized atmosphere" of the new communities and what level of criticism is now acceptable.

Scans Daily has always been a place where members feel free to vent and be passionate about comics. We want to maintain an atmosphere where members feel free to "let rip" without being called up on it. We do understand that there's been some confusion about what level of heated debate is acceptable, and that there's been a perception that any negative comment about a work will earn a member a mod note.

This is definitely not the case and we want members to be free to be passionate in both negative and positive ways. The new posting guidelines seek to clarify what is and isn't acceptable. The short version is that it's okay to get impassioned about a work, but not okay to make threats, wish harm on, outright insult or abuse other members or creators.

We understand there's a blurred line between being critical of a work and attacking a person, so we've provided some examples in addition to the clarified rules to hopefully make the distinction easier for everyone to understand.

POST: This comic with Batman is awesome because he punches people in the face. I think Ms. Writer Person should stay on this comic for ever and ever and ever.

NOT ACCEPTABLE: You're a fucking moron and your post fucking sucks, just like you always do. Nobody cares what you think. Ms Writer Person is such a fucktard, I don't understand why nobody's punched her in the face at a convention.
PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE: I thought the whole issue was idiotic and the writer has produced utter garbage. I've never seen the appeal in this writer and this has convinced me even more.
STILL ACCEPTABLE: I gotta say I really disagree with you (as usual). It's pretty damn clear to me that Batman is at his most awesome when he throws batarangs at people's fucking necks. I think Ms Writer Person's run on this comic has been fucking terrible (and not in the cake-stealing way), and I really don't understand why there haven't been more complaints about this shitty, shitty pile of shit writing.
SHOCKINGLY, ACCEPTABLE: I disagree. I think Batman is coolest when he's throwing batarangs at people's necks, rescuing puppies and babysitting. I would like to see more batarangs, puppies, and babysitting, and I don't think Ms Writer Person is the one to do it.


In short, we want to make the atmosphere one where people feel they don't need to hold back, but not where anyone personally feels threatened.

FAIR AND EVEN-HANDED MODERATION.

Another concern raised was a lack of even-handedness from the moderators. If we've appeared to be uneven in our modding, we apologize and are trying our best to do better. We do understand that some members have been noted by a mod for a minor infraction of rules, while in other posts, similar comments have been overlooked. Where this has happened, we wholeheartedly apologize.

We do try to read as much of the content as we possibly can, but sometimes things do slip through the net. We urge anyone who sees a blatant rules infraction to contact us.. It may be a simple matter of the comment not having been read by any mod - we try our best to read every response and post, but that's not always possible - if you feel a rules violation has been overlooked or ignored, please let us know. We don't want to place the entire burden of policing the community on our members, but we do want everyone to feel they receive even-handed treatment, and can come forward if they encounter something that concerns them.


We hope that you'll embrace these changes and work with us in continuing to make [info]scans_daily and noscans_daily fantastic communities for comic enthusiasts. We know the past few months - from the suspension of the old community on LJ and onwards - haven't been the easiest, but if anything, you've all proven its resilience, given how vibrant and energetic the new communities have become.

Once again, we are sincerely sorry for any hurt, worry, anger or confusion we've caused. We thank you for your patience and kindness, and we are tremendously thankful to be part of Scans Daily and NoScans Daily, and the great community of people that you are.


(Post a new comment)


[info]cyberghostface
2009-06-06 04:09 pm UTC (link)
Not to bring up any sore spots, but what happened exactly?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]yaseen101
2009-06-06 04:29 pm UTC (link)
It was regarding the Super Young Team. Someone once posted a well a post about The Super Young Team and cissieking did another post regarding it and according to her and from what I understand; "just because a person is foreign and is from a different country he shouldn't nescessiarily be that countries stereotype, like a hero from England doesn't 'have' to be a Knight or a secret agent and can be some other kind of superhero." something along those lines and at the end she said something a bit rascist, which from my memory was "just because of this post don't think I'm a preivelaged white person.." well you get the idea. Then after that there was huge discussion on the topic and by the time I got through half of them the mods have deleted some of the posts.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-06-06 04:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaseen101, 2009-06-06 04:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-06-06 04:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaseen101, 2009-06-06 04:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]foxhack, 2009-06-06 10:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]neuhallidae, 2009-06-06 04:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaseen101, 2009-06-06 04:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]galateus, 2009-06-06 05:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]taggerung301, 2009-06-06 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batcookies, 2009-06-06 11:02 pm UTC

[info]mcspakypants
2009-06-06 04:39 pm UTC (link)
I don't know much about Cissie King but Box in the box was very respectful to me when we had a Bendis discussion on the old Scans_Daily site.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


(Anonymous)
2009-06-06 04:42 pm UTC (link)
Just don't get him started with Grant Morrison! xD

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mullon, 2009-06-06 06:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcspakypants, 2009-06-06 06:36 pm UTC

[info]janegray
2009-06-06 04:49 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for the clarifications.

To be honest, I was starting to feel like the Comms had turned into some kind of Stepford Wives place, where you absolutely must be completely nice at all cost. Considering that we are comic book fans, bitching pretty much is in the job hobby description... I'm very glad it's still acceptable ;P

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]angelophile
2009-06-06 04:57 pm UTC (link)
A Scans_Daily with no bitching wouldn't be a Scans_Daily at all.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]volksjager
2009-06-06 05:24 pm UTC (link)
seconded.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]the_eleven
2009-06-06 05:31 pm UTC (link)
this is not a safe space

I was glad to see this one. I'm not cleared to be in safe spaces.

(Reply to this)


[info]mullon
2009-06-06 06:05 pm UTC (link)
If only there was a way to have these rules connected to a link on the side. Whatever happened to that suggestion box someone posted once?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]schmevil
2009-06-06 06:06 pm UTC (link)
Here.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

To expand slightly...
[info]rabican
2009-06-06 06:08 pm UTC (link)
Just so you don't have to go looking, the suggestion box is at the bottom, under "Administrivia."

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]kitty_tc_69
2009-06-06 06:24 pm UTC (link)
(from the other thread) It is absolutely NOT the responsibility for a member of a race or culture to educate others...

I'm going to take issue with this.

I'm Cajun, born and raised in a culture that clearly most people outside of South Louisiana know next to nothing about. They don't know what the Cajun French language sounds like, they don't know our history, they don't know our culture. They're not from here, they haven't been immersed in it. They never had opportunity or reason to learn these things. I don't begrudge them that.

Thus, when I complain about the gross cultural inaccuracies in media to others not from here (Gambit comes to mind strongly here, as does the hamhanded attempt at depicting New Orleans in Heroes), I DO consider it my responsibility to educate others as to what the hell I'm talking about. Because while it may have been the responsibility of the creators of the inaccurate media in question to do better research or get a hold of a consultant, it's NOT the responsibility of the general audience to do that kind of research.

When speaking as a Cajun, I DO consider it my responsibility to enlighten others who don't know my culture. To act as an ambassador, if you will. Because it's NOT PEOPLE'S FAULT if they're not from here, and aren't familiar with things that only locals know well. They aren't somehow criminal for not engaging in some kind of Batman-esque massive research project to find out every detail about every obscure culture ever. And it's arrogant to think that beyond basic politeness they even have cause to care. Have I memorized every detail of every race, nationality, and local culture? Of course not, I'm not a fucking anthropologist. Most people aren't.

Innocent ignorance is NOT a crime. And it IS on us to politely correct misperceptions to those who have no other way to know they're mistaken about our culture.

If we don't, who will?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]schmevil
2009-06-06 06:30 pm UTC (link)
I get what you're saying, but what we mean by it not being the responsibility of people of colour to educate white people, is that I, as a white woman, can't *demand* that someone who may have been offended by my words, stay in the conversation to correct all my missteps.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-06-06 06:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]04nbod, 2009-06-06 09:27 pm UTC
While we're talking resources... - [info]rabican, 2009-06-06 06:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]04nbod, 2009-06-06 09:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-06-06 09:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-06-06 09:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-06-06 10:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-06-07 03:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]karmakaze, 2009-06-07 10:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-06-07 10:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dirty_diana, 2009-06-07 01:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tanetris, 2009-06-07 03:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-06-07 10:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]04nbod, 2009-06-07 01:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dirty_diana, 2009-06-07 01:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]team_leader, 2009-06-07 08:51 am UTC

[info]thandrak
2009-06-06 06:34 pm UTC (link)
How do you feel about Gung-Ho?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]thandrak, 2009-06-06 06:35 pm UTC

[info]angelophile
2009-06-06 06:35 pm UTC (link)
I think the difference is that it's your choice to do so, not something that others demand of you. What we were trying to say is that, as mods, we should be responsible for educating ourselves on these issues and not expect others to educate us, nor should any members feel under pressure to educate people unless they want to.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]parsimonia
2009-06-06 06:35 pm UTC (link)
The point with that line, is that the moderators will not expect or demand that you educate others on your heritage or other matters of importance or sensitivity. If you choose to do so, then that is by all means welcome and appreciated.

Sometimes it can be very exhausting and difficult for people to repeatedly educate others on something like racism or sexism (especially if they themselves have been hurt by it), and if they want or need to walk away from a discussion or argument, that is entirely their right.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]rabican
2009-06-06 06:39 pm UTC (link)
The other three mods said pretty much everything I could hope to say, but in particular I want to repeat this line of [info]parsimonia's:

Sometimes it can be very exhausting and difficult for people to repeatedly educate others on something like racism or sexism (especially if they themselves have been hurt by it), and if they want or need to walk away from a discussion or argument, that is entirely their right.

and triple-underline it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]aaron_bourque, 2009-06-06 08:19 pm UTC

[info]retro_nouveau
2009-06-06 07:31 pm UTC (link)
Um... tl;dr. And I looked everywhere, no scan. Terribly disappointed. :D ***

*** Retro and his affiliates and sponsors are not licensed, bonded, nor insured experts in jokes and the comment provided herein does not constitute an implied or express warranty for laughter of any kind. This comment is provided "as is" with no guarantee of accuracy, timeliness, completeness, or reliability of results. This information is provided for general guidance only and should not be used as a substitute for consultation with an actual comedian. We encourage all interested parties to consult with reputable stand up professionals. Do not mix this comment with alcohol and/or pain relief medication. Do not drive or operate heavy machinery after reading this comment. Surgeon general's warning: Reading this comment may cause lung cancer, heart disease, emphysema, and/or other serious risks to your health. If this comment is accidentally ingested, give large amounts of water and induce vomiting. Contact a physician if blistering, pain, or irritation persists. No returns, exchanges or refunds. I before E except after C, except there is no I in team. When reading this comment, please take your seat, fasten your seat belt, and make sure your seat back and folding tray are in their full upright position. Any rebroadcast, retransmission or any other use of this comment without the express written consent of the National Football League is strictly prohibited.

(Reply to this)


[info]filbypott
2009-06-06 07:33 pm UTC (link)
Good on ya.

(Reply to this)


[info]nr4b
2009-06-06 11:47 pm UTC (link)
I'm a lurker and an observer, but I love scans_daily and I'm sad to see what's been happening here. So much unnecessary hand wringing!

I think the community in general, and the moderators in particular, have a miniature version of PTSD after the big blowup. There's this new need to be extra careful about fair-use policies, and I think that's bled over into a desire to be hyper-careful about absolutely everything.

I've never seen so much as a panel of Super Young Team, but I've looked in on that thread because of the drama around it. Nothing stirs up tension on the internet like two non-racists arguing over how to not be racist. Imagine if an ACTUAL racist had shown up!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]angelophile, 2009-06-07 06:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]besamim, 2009-06-07 11:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nr4b, 2009-06-07 02:09 pm UTC

[info]moneyless_jew
2009-06-06 11:52 pm UTC (link)
Clearly what this situation calls for is a full-on, uncut SUPER YOUNG TEAM TRIBUTE POST.

Followed by more arguing over Avatar.

(Reply to this)


[info]erlgirl_9
2009-06-07 09:08 am UTC (link)
I love this community and want to marry it.

(Reply to this)


[info]besamim
2009-06-07 09:17 am UTC (link)
I for one welcome our new insect overlords the newly-clarified rules and guidelines on acceptable vs. inacceptable criticism. There's no question that passionate criticism is an essential part of comics discussion. It'd be horribly boring if we could only post things like, "I say, Eddie Tor-In-Chief of Wow Comics is a capital fellow," "Mm, quite so," and such. But just the same, if discussion after discussion consists of nothing but "Eddie Tor-In-Chief should be DISEMBOWELLED for making Testosterone Man leave the Crimepunching League, and anyone who disagrees with me is FULL OF FAIL," "Wow you're a momma's-basement-dwelling fat fucktard fanboy," "I know you are but what am I"...well, it makes people like me wonder whether they want to spend time here.

If you hate the direction a title, character or entire publisher has taken, then go for it and say so, but there's no need to get personal about it, type every other word in ALL CAPS, and generally carry on in a way that would have your boss, or a judge, send you to anger-management training if you did so in face-to-face situations.

(Reply to this)


[info]kali921
2009-06-07 11:55 am UTC (link)
this is not a safe space.

You said it. While I think this is the beginnings of a step in the right direction, it's really too bad that you're still so vague on what is and isn't acceptable re: calling someone out on their privilege. Maybe you should have waited until you had all that fleshed out before posting?

I'm a little puzzled that in a post where you emphasize again that no personal attacks are allowed you've allowed a personal attack to stand?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]angelophile, 2009-06-07 02:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kali921, 2009-06-07 02:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]angelophile, 2009-06-07 03:53 pm UTC
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