InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "taste the spork"

claudie (flirting with modernism) (lipsofpoison) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-05-09 17:57:00

Entry tags:

char: alfred pennyworth, char: batman/bruce wayne, char: hugo strange, char: robin/nightwing/dick grayson, char: robin/red robin/tim drake, publisher: dc comics, title: gotham knights

Batfamily Goodness.
This post is on the family relationship between Dick, Tim and Bruce through Gotham Knights 8-11. The short story is that Hugo Strange targets him and believes he knows that Bruce Wayne is Batman and targets the Batfamily as the psycho psychologist.

Gotham Knights #8 [5 scans]

We start with the boys playing tag in Wayne Enterprises while Bruce has a meeting. It also shows off some of Lucius Fox in his awesomeness.

Tim's excitement over Dick picking him up on the bike is adorable.

I must agree with Dick, they're both doofuses. I love these little interlude moments.

Some proof that Tim thinks too much.

'Cause he's Batman is the best arguement for anything ever.

Gotham Knights #9 [5 scans]

Bruce then discovers Strange waiting for him for the evaluation and a fight ensues. Dick has the best reaction to this ever.

Tim and Dick continue to be dorks, while watching and eating popcorn. Except then the car blows up.

The boys freak out.

Gotham Knights #10 [7 scans]

Tim takes a very freaked out Dick home.

Dick then jumps into denial and swings into action.

Dick then tells Tim to go through all the files marked 'Hugo Strange' while he goes out looking for clues. Tim then reads one of the files through the comms. Gratuitous Dick shot, basically.

Then Strange breaks in. Dick does not take kindly to this.

Then he escapes.

Only for Alfred to get a call that Bruce is alive!

Gotham Knights #11 [7 scans]

The boys try and ask him for instructions, but Bruce seems to have no idea what they're on about. Worth it simply for Dick doing bat ears!

Dick loses it with him and realises he really doesn't know what they're talking about.

Strange then captures them and tries to set it up to reveal Bruce as Batman. Bruce panicks. Dick saves him and Tim takes care of himself. Strange freaks out.

The boys roll their eyes and bond. Tim pulls Dicks signature move in the background.

The mystery is revealed. Tim finds it cool. Dick is a little put out. Mostly, I feel sorry for Alfred.

"...Neither do I."

(Post a new comment)

	nevermore999 2009-05-09 12:16 pm UTC (link)
	Man, I love this. Mostly because of Tim and Dick being dorks together. I miss that. I miss that SO MUCH. And I love Dick being super loyal and crazy awesome. (Reply to this)

jesidres
2009-05-09 01:08 pm UTC (link)

Ooooh, now you've got me even more depressed- because it's reminding really all that we're losing with this stupid Battle for the Cowl and the recent "Let's make everybody have no emotional depth besides being horrible emo psychos".

I LOVE Dick in this, and I fully admit these stories cemented that love, HARD, the demented love they all have for each other. Dick being able noogie Tim and not have them snap at each other every second they're near each other.

Batman actually concerned about his connection to reality, and them actually acting like a dysfunctional but loving family that can squabble with out 6 issues of "woe is me" speeches.

Excuse me, I think Dan Didio needs a personal word with my steel-toed BOOT.

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	shadowvalkyrie 2009-05-10 05:35 am UTC (link)
	WORD on all of that! (Reply to this) (Parent)

runespoor7
2009-05-09 01:12 pm UTC (link)

Man I love Devin Grayson's work. Tim's little "Aw man" and massaging his temples at the massive headache that is Dick throwing himself off a building to check if the fall is survivable. Dorkiness! Crazy Batfiles! Dick being devoted and fearless and effusive! Crazy Bruce Wayne/Batman/Bruce dissociation! Bruce taking the boys for granted! Tim being a mature teenager and all restrained and stuff! Alfred clearly not getting paid enough for everything he has to put up with! Popcorn! Craziness! ~~Sub~~text!(and, in the unposted pages, crazy people pretending to be Catwoman!)

...No, I just love Devin Grayson's work.

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	lipsofpoison 2009-05-09 01:16 pm UTC (link)
	This is what put me onto Grayson's work and I fell in love. I wanted so bad for it to be "Battle for the Cowl by Devin Grayson". (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

runespoor7
2009-05-09 01:21 pm UTC (link)

She doesn't work for DC anymore. As far as I'm concerned, it's one of the great tragedies of our time.

BftC by Devin Grayson would be epic, but I'd be a little wary at letting her write Jason. Not that I think she'd damage him on purpose, of course, but I'm not sure how her bias for the relationship between Bruce and Dick would reflect on her writing the relationship between Bruce and Jason.

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	lipsofpoison 2009-05-09 01:23 pm UTC (link)
	It doesn't matter. She should have come back just for that. Honestly, when it comes to Jason, how much worse could it get? He's abandoned all his reasoning and written off Bruce as not wanting his an enemy. This is not the Jason I know and love. I'd take Grayson's take on it anyday. Or, you know, she can work with Winick and he can write Jason. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

runespoor7
2009-05-09 01:31 pm UTC (link)

Or, you know, she can work with Winick and he can write Jason.
I was just about to suggest that.

The problem I imagine with Grayson writing Jason is that I think she'd emphasize Jason's feelings that Bruce was using him as a replacement for Dick. Which is an angle I prefer to see downplayed most of the time, because I take Bruce/Jason for granted and it's already fucked-up enough without painting it all over with "Bruce wanted Jason to be Dick".

She could write Dick as an awesome bigger brother to Tim and Damian and we'd have a smart, clairvoyant Babs and and and. I miss her writing so much.

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lipsofpoison
2009-05-09 01:35 pm UTC (link)

I want to see a Dick handling his emotions in a Dick way (open as he usually does), Tim being controlled but not this shell he seems to have become and at the very least, I'd like to see another smart Jason that's not running around shooting kids, even if it is Damian. I agree with you about wanting to see less of Jason-was-a-replacement, but if I'm comparing, I'd take it out of this OOC crap we've been getting. It's not ideal but better the devil that's not completely OOC.

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icon_uk
2009-05-09 02:57 pm UTC (link)

Thanks heavens for small mercies IMHO. I know she has her fans, and I'm sure she's a genuinely delightful person and all, but I genuinely cannot STAND the vast majority of her work, and in particular her treatment of Dick Grayson and the Bat-family.

She has great moments, like Tim and Dick playing tag, but then has insanity like Dick testing to see if a dive is survivable by trying it himself. Sorry, that's a level of idiocy that Dick would have given up by the time he was about 12.

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	lipsofpoison 2009-05-09 03:32 pm UTC (link)
	Well, I disagree but everyone is welcome to their opinion. (Reply to this) (Parent)

skitty_kat
2009-05-10 03:22 am UTC (link)

Oh, thank goodness, I thought I'd wandered in on a Devin Grayson love-in session. I quite like her Gotham Knights stuff but then her run on Nightwing just turned awful - Dick just turned into this whiny sack of whatever with no competency whatsoever. And now I find it harder to read her GK stuff without thinking of that.
Her stuff kind of reads like fanfic to me, Bruce/Dick fic, and it feels slightly embarassing to read.
Then there was the whole 'oh, he wasn't actually raped' thing when everyone had read the script she put up which said quite plainly that he was. And War Games, of course.

That said, I have her novel Inheritance sitting on my pile of books to read because I'm told it is full of utter crack.

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	scottyquick 2009-05-10 09:21 am UTC (link)
	With the #93 thing, it seemed like other writers were interested in using Tarantula and portraying her as a hero, which is probably why she had to take it back. And hey! War Games was mostly Willingham! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	runespoor7 2009-05-10 10:46 am UTC (link)
	Other writers wanted to use Tarantula as a hero? chokes What, had they massively not done the research? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-05-11 05:32 am UTC (link)
	I don't think ANYONE was interested in using Tarantula at ALL other than Devin, and through her War Games, which was indeed a lot of Willingham, but I believe Ms Grayson was heavily involved too. I just think we were supposed to believe Tarantula really was fundamentally good, when she quite blatantly wasn't. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-05-11 08:02 am UTC (link)
	Anderson Gabrych was using her in 'Tec at the time of Nightwing #93, he wanted to use a newbie at the time. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-05-11 08:09 am UTC (link)

Wasn't that as part of the War Drums / War Crimes anyway though? Which was, as noted, partly Ms Grayson's doing.

Also bear in mind #93 was only the culmination of Tarantula's actions, she'd already been seen working with Blockbuster for more than 6 months prior to that, setting bombs, ruining Dick's relationship with Barbara and so on.. which makes anyone wanting to use her as a newbie hero a little baffling, and she was never the most... subtle of characters in that respect.

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	scottyquick 2009-05-11 04:24 pm UTC (link)
	Before it, and Gabrych's quoted as: Bob Schreck, my kick-ass editor, knowing my love of heroines, suggested using [Tarantula]. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-05-11 05:07 pm UTC (link)
	Fair enough, but you have to ask yourself - Given how UNheroic she was from the outset; from kick-ass to someone whose ass you'd want to kick? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-05-11 08:30 pm UTC (link)
	Okay, I've re-read your question at least 4 times, and I've come to the conclusion that either: a) I've failed reading (again) b) You missed a few important words? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	hybridhelen 2009-05-10 12:13 pm UTC (link)
	That said, I have her novel Inheritance sitting on my pile of books to read because I'm told it is full of utter crack. IT IS AND YOU SHOULD TOTALLY READ IT AS SOON AS YOU CAN, BECAUSE THE CRACK, IT IS DELICIOUS! cough (Reply to this) (Parent)

	scottyquick 2009-05-09 03:25 pm UTC (link)
	Did you ever read her run on the Titans? Good stuff man. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-05-09 03:33 pm UTC (link)
	Not a huge Titans fan, to be honest so I don't read it unless it has something that interests me. (Reply to this) (Parent)

icon_uk
2009-05-11 05:43 am UTC (link)

You mean the Titans run that had Dick a paranoid control freak keeping secrets from his team-mates (most notably Cyborg), having his team-mates remind him how very much like Batman he is half the time, growing clone bodies before he has any idea if it's a remotely ethical thing to do, and depicted STarfire as a semi-malevolent shrew who was happy to dupe her friends into fighting a war of aggression her own people had started. Oh and the endless reptition of "We're a family" aside from the fact that they're a family the same way the Borgias are...

Oh, and let's not forget the focus given to Damian Dharrk (With a name like that, supervillainy really was his only career choice) and Tartarus, the world's most contrived supervillain group (Vandal Savage, Cheshire, Red Panzer and an eco-activist mermaid, I mean WTF?)

Again, a couple of nice random character beats to one side, I found her run to be largely... irritating

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lyraeinne
2009-05-09 02:56 pm UTC (link)

This was one of the first Batfamily stories I ever read, and to this day it's one I sort of find myself unconsciously referring back to for my definitive Batboys, but most especially Dick and Bruce. Hugo Strange wearing the batsuit and touching Dick like that, and Dick freaking out from the wrong and Bruce being gone without really being gone, and the file that says so much without really saying anything. So many good, awesome things about this story.

I have to say I also kind of love the idea that an unstable outsider can so easily pick up the important touch points in a relationship, even while missing so many of the essential details. Dick's obvious love for Bruce and his chronic need to be needed by Bruce are all things we see over and over again in the modern Batverse, but taking Batman out of the equation entirely and leaving only Bruce to respond to that devotion was a genuinely interesting way to explore the dynamic.

And of course, subtext just doesn’t get much textier than “sticky and hot.” Which I’m sad had to be left out.

(Reply to this)

	janesays 2009-05-09 07:53 pm UTC (link)
	God this has always been one of my favorite runs. I even lucked out and was able to get some of the original art from Gotham Knights #10 ... I'd never geeked out so hard in my life. (Reply to this)

	freddylloyd 2009-05-09 08:06 pm UTC (link)
	My favorite dialogue in this run is the hypnotized Bruce's comments as Dick takes him down to the cave. "I think that clock's too heavy to move, Dick--well, how about that? . . . Has this been down here all the time? Did you know about this? Are those bats?" (Reply to this)

	merseybeatler 2009-05-09 09:21 pm UTC (link)
	sigh They're all so LIKEABLE. Even with the slightly odd shadowing on their faces that makes them vaguely resemble Frankenstein, they're so likeable. Damn. (Reply to this)

ladymirth
2009-05-09 10:45 pm UTC (link)

Oh, I remember this. Definitely one of my favourite arcs ever! I never check who the writer is before I read a comic, so after a couple of pages, I was like "Dick and Tim being adorkable Bat fanboys, exploring father-son relationships, Dick being batshit crazy and the Bats talking out their feelings?? MUST be Devin Grayson!"

Apart from a couple of blips during her run on Nightwing (Tarantula raping Dick and multi-millionaire heir to WE sleeping on newspapers because he be so emo, bwahahaha!) I really love Devin's work. I think she's a writer like Tomasi, who channels what most ~~fangirls~~ mature readers want - ~~Bat noogies~~ emotional depth and character exposition.

She's like DC's Sera Gamble, only without the gratuitous sex. XD

Oh, and I love, love, love Dick throwing himself off a building to see whether the fall was survivable. That boy has a limited conception of his own mortality, really. No wonder he drives Babs crazy! *snuggles him*

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	icon_uk 2009-05-11 08:16 am UTC (link)
	Oh, and I love, love, love Dick throwing himself off a building to see whether the fall was survivable. That boy has a limited conception of his own mortality, really Ummm.... since when? Dick has stayed alive by having a very real awareness of his mortality and relative fragility of same. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-05-11 09:59 am UTC (link)
	Jumping off buildings would hardly be beyond his abilities. Perhaps Grayson figured it an extention of that. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-05-11 10:24 am UTC (link)

Jumping off buildings is well within his abilities, in fact it'd be one of his defining abilities, but doing it blind, essentially jumping off a building just to check that doing so wasn't as lethal as it had appeared to be to Batman, when there are a few other things to try first? Nope, not buying that one.

Of course, if Batman had shown any maturity in this story, such as trusting his sons with the truth, instead of assuming that only HE could pull off a convincing act, and that after years of experience, Dick wouldn't be able to fake an emotional reaction as convincingly as Bruce could, I wouldn't be so irked by it (Even leaving aside the squicksome elements of Strange's assessment of Dick's dependence on Bruce for any sort of emotional validation in his life) as it is well, it's just depressing.

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lipsofpoison
2009-05-11 10:29 am UTC (link)

I guess I didn't read that way so much as Dick having confidence in his own ability to survive a fall or pull himself up at the last minute. Perhaps a little reckless, but sometimes Dick can be. It may not be completely in character, but I don't believe it to be totally out of character either.

I get that you can overread into the almost shippy aspects of it and that Bruce is showing some batdickery, but the difference in Tim and Dick's reactions were what I was interested by. Bruce may be the central character, but I'll admit, I don't pay a lot of attention to him.

I suppose my want to show the brilliant relationship between Tim and Dick, despite their very different reactions to Bruce's dickery, has failed rather miserably. There I thought it was a happy thing.

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icon_uk
2009-05-11 10:55 am UTC (link)

Sorry, didn't mean to be a downer, and the Dick/Tim interaction is a lot of fun and in isolation would be adorable, but it's knowing it's being framed by a story which encompasses not only Devin's strengths as a writer (Small character beats) but her weaknesses (over sexualised subtext and weird lack of empathy), and in which Bruce is so completely inhuman, that means I can't just enjoy the Robin-noogies as much as I'd like to.

Have another look at the Nightwing puppy icon to compensate! :)

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	lipsofpoison 2009-05-11 10:56 am UTC (link)
	That icon is worth it any day :] (Reply to this) (Parent)

	cmdr_zoom 2009-05-10 12:33 am UTC (link)
	"That's awesome!" "Not to mention manipulative and unfair..." Yeah, that's Bruce. facepalm (Reply to this)

	cat_13145 2009-05-10 02:39 am UTC (link)
	This is brilliant. Why are we not getting more like this? love Bruce as Bruce, and Dick's rabbit ears are priceless. Also "I am a model of mental health"? That's not for either of them. (Reply to this)

	hybridhelen 2009-05-10 12:17 pm UTC (link)
	Oh my word, this is just awesome. These are my batboys, and I love them. I am home sick and mopey on my only day off in two weeks, but this has cheered me right up. Thank you fo posting it! (Reply to this)

sistermagpie
2009-05-10 12:19 pm UTC (link)

This is seriously one of my favorite stories. I love love love the Batboys at home being a nutty but loving family. I know comics are about adventure but I need my hanging-out times in between!

From the very first shot of Dick giving Tim noogies and chasing each other around and getting popcorn it's just fantastic. I love the sense you get here of Dick, Tim and Bruce outside of Nightwing, Robin and Batman. Especially the way everybody at WE knows Dick etc. You get the sense of their whole civilian life as a family.

But Bruce still remains totally ridiculous at times--not telling the boys he's hypnotizing himself to forget his life. Not to mention the character he has in his head for Bruce Wayne, a guy too dumb to know that his own building has stairs. He calls this guy Bruce Wayne, but of course he's really not. (Love in the car where the boys are all "Are we being bugged? Are we speaking in code? Should I make the Bat ears again?")

I love these guys! This is why I read this entry after the ROTJ one. I like to remind myself my little family is still safe. (Err...except for BftC.)

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	dustbunny105 2009-05-10 01:41 pm UTC (link)
	Not to mention the character he has in his head for Bruce Wayne, a guy too dumb to know that his own building has stairs. Yeah, I thought his Bruce character was a little overdone in that regard. Not to mention you'd think him not even recognizing the name Batman when he lives ~~in Gotham~~ on Earth would be suspicious if anything. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sistermagpie 2009-05-10 03:44 pm UTC (link)
	It feels like a self-hating character, doesn't it? Like it's a big insult to Bruce Wayne, as if he can't have any good qualities on his own. Although maybe some of that was smart because it made him less trouble. Bruce Wayne just hides when the villain shows up; he doesn't try to get involved or be brave like his dad. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	mysteryfan 2009-08-22 03:30 pm UTC (link)
	Hey, I just read this arc today and I thought that, too! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2009-05-15 10:05 pm UTC (link)
	Aww, I can't see it (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-05-16 09:21 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, my bandwidth was maxed out. They'll be up again in a week or so. (Reply to this) (Parent)