InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Millenium hand and shrimp!"

dr_hermes (dr_hermes) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-11-09 20:05:00

Entry tags:

creator: jack kirby, creator: stan lee, era: silver age

Giant-Man cracks me up
I seriously doubt if Stan Lee put all that much that into the dialogue back then, as he was batting out scripts as fast as he could type and he was working with whatever wild unexpected plot twists Jack Kirby handed in ("Black Bolt? I told Jack that this issue was going to guest-star the Silver Surfer! Oh, well..."). But it's interesting how Henry Pym was consistently shown as someone in over his head when dealing with other super-heroes. He was so outmatched in sheer strength or fighting ability that it wasn't even funny. Yet, right from the start even as Ant-Man, he took it for granted that his seat at the pantheon of godlike beings was secure.(In a way, he reminds of the original Atom. Al Pratt was just a short, tough-guy brawler but he sat down opposite the likes of the Spectre or Dr Fate with complete confidence he was their peer.)

Take this panel from THE AVENGERS# 2, where the Space Phantom has got the Avengers fighting each other. Giant-Man runs up and seperates a brawling Iron Man and Hulk. Now, in the real world, someone who could disregard the cube-square law and function at a twelve-foot height, would be incredibly awesome. He could pick NBA players up and throw them to one side while dropping the basketball into the hoop from above. Yet, in the world of super-heroes, Giant-Man is messing with two guys who could each tear him apart without trouble. (In fact, later in the same issue, the Hulk mentions that he's "stronger than a dozen Giant-Men.)

Then there's this scene from JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY# 101. Thor isn't mind-controlled or anything, he's just throwing a tantrum because Odin won't let him marry the mortal Jane Foster. I love the second panel, where Thor casually smacks the front end of a truck. No big deal, not a great feat, he just backhands the thing and the front half of it gets ripped off. Giant-Man's comments may be meant to reassure, but they don't make much sense. "No harm done?" "I'll straighten out your wheels..?" What good is that going to do, Hank? The other half of the trucking is lying on the other side of the Van Wyck Expressway! At least, Tony Stark understands the best thing to do is to hand over a healthy bribe, errr reimbursement to avoid a lawsuit.

And with all that Pym has seen Thor do-- slugging it out toe to toe with the Hulk and the Sub-Mariner, for example-- he still gets riled up when the Thunder God tells them to get lost. He starts talking tough to an enraged Thor! Sheesh, it's a wonder Giant-Man survived the Silver Age with that outlook.

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	earthelemental 2009-11-10 02:03 am UTC (link)
	Imagine all the medical and insurance bills Hank Pym had to pay. From his constant injuries, to his worsening heart condition from all that random shrinking and growing. Not surprising Iron Man, Giant-Man and the Wasp were the first to willingly leave the Avengers. All due to physical and mental health issues that were still present in some form when they returned. (Reply to this)

	valismedsen 2009-11-10 02:09 am UTC (link)
	Thor looks so young in the last panel in that second scan! (Reply to this)

	mcbangle 2009-11-10 04:52 am UTC (link)
	"Thor watches out for nobody!!" Love it! (Reply to this)

rab62
2009-11-10 05:16 am UTC (link)

I'd hope that when he said "I'll straighten out your wheels" Hank Pym did not literally mean "I'll realign your tires, at least those that are still attached to your vehicle" but was instead using "wheels" in a colloquial sense, meaning "With my mechanical skills, I will see to the repair of your transportation handily. Are you hep, daddio?" If only Stan had had me around to straighten these things out for him...

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	psychop_rex 2009-11-10 07:39 am UTC (link)
	That was pretty much my gues, too - you still occasionally hear someone say 'nice wheels', which can mean a car, a truck, a bike, a trike, a little red wagon - anything with, well, wheels. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	psychop_rex 2009-11-10 07:41 am UTC (link)
	Since when could Iron Man turn his hand into a sledgehammer? I mean, even in the early days, his powers were basically 'fly, bulletproof, repulsor blasts' - I don't recall his armor having shapeshifting abilities. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	flyingfoxman 2009-11-10 09:14 am UTC (link)
	New powers as the plot demands! =D Non-obligatory TV Tropes link (If you have somewhere to be within the next two hours, don't click this): http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NewPowersAsThePlotDemands (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-11-10 10:11 am UTC (link)
	Thankfully, I've already read that one, so my curiosity is not piqued. Otherwise, I might have had to chastise you. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	arbre_rieur 2009-11-10 10:04 am UTC (link)
	As I recall, it was an attachment he clamped onto his arm. He improvised it in that issue; no idea if it ever appeared again. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

dr_hermes
2009-11-10 10:12 am UTC (link)

No, I think this was the only appearance. Kirby was notorious for just throwing out new gadgets and powers as they occurred to him, and then forgetting all about them. Thor would use his hammer's polished surface to reflect sunlight and hypnotize someone, then this would never be seen again. Iron Man or Dr Doom would reveal some neat gadget during a fight, which would likewise be then totally forgotten.

Stan Lee complained that Jack Kirby was incredibly creative but not consistent. Pages would come in where Alicia was doing something only a sighted person could do, and this would have to be fixed in the office. Or Kirby would start a subplot which would be forgotten. The same problems turned up when Kirby started his own titles for DC; they were dramatic and imaginative and lots of fun, but they needed an editor.

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	psychop_rex 2009-11-10 10:17 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, apparently he was one of those people who do their best work when they've got someone else to rein them in. When he finally did come up with a comic that he wrote and drew and edited entirely on his own, it was practically nothing but one earth-shattering kaboom after another. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

dr_hermes
2009-11-10 08:39 pm UTC (link)

As I remember, DC promised Kirby that he could launch his Fourth World books and get them running. Then others would take over under Kirby's guidance. I think this might have produced some all-time classics. If nothing else, Jack was constantly coming up with new characters and concepts.

(Actually, at Marvel, Kirby created many characters he is not normally associated with. He would whip up a new villain, do a sketch of the costume and weapons, and then other writers and artists would run with it.

When you think about, within five years, Lee and Kirby came up with the Fantastic Four, the Hulk, Dr Doom, Galactus, the Silver Surfer, the Watcher, the Inhumans, the Black Panther and others still being profitably used today. But few characters created since that era have shown any lasting power or approach to iconic status. Remarkable, really. )

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psychop_rex
2009-11-10 10:09 pm UTC (link)

I wasn't referring to his time at DC - this was after that. It was a creator-owned independent that he did for a few issues - I think it was called 'Captain Cosmos', or something like that.
I dunno - I can think of a few. Assuming that we're sticking strictly to Marvel, there's the Claremont X-Men, most of whom are fairly iconic in their own right; there's Captain Britain (who admittedly was pretty obscure over here for a long time, but is still a cool character), there's the Wrecking Crew (I THINK they came later than Kirby; I could be wrong), Adam Warlock, the Ghost Rider, Thanos, Cloak and Dagger (also a tad obscure, but still great characters, and still being used), etc. Sure, Kirby and Lee came up with most of the big guns, but that's not to say that others haven't left their mark.

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dr_hermes
2009-11-10 11:47 pm UTC (link)

The main one who comes to mind is Wolverine, I guess. Even people who don't know comics may recognize him. The Wrecking Crew first appeared in a
Lee-Kirby issue of THOR, Loki gave them their powers. Adam Warlock stared as "Him" in a Lee-Kirby FANTASTIC FOUR, although Starlin and Roy Thomas changed him so much that he's essentially a new character.

And of course, Marvel's most famous and successful character is one that Kirby had only tenuous connections to at the very beginning, Spider-Man. There's Daredevil, who was created by Bill Everett (if I remember right); Everett also created Sub-Mariner decades earlier. So right there are three big Marvel characters not from Kirby.

Oh, and I remember the unfortunate comics Kirby came up with near the end of his time. Silver Star, Captain Something-Or-Other and his Bizarre Galaxy Rangers. He was tired and sick, and little of the old creative energy was left at that point. It's like the final sad albums a once-great musician turns out.

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	psychop_rex 2009-11-11 12:20 am UTC (link)
	I believe the 'Galaxy Rangers' one is the one I was referring to. I haven't read it, but I've heard about it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	psychop_rex 2009-11-10 10:14 am UTC (link)
	That makes sense, I guess, although it's really pretty damn pointless. What's the point of adding a blunt weapon to the end of your arm when you're already wearing metal gloves? It's like putting a boxing glove on the end of a mace - it accomplishes nothing, and it looks silly. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	dr_hermes 2009-11-10 08:31 pm UTC (link)
	Leverage adding force to the blow, perhaps. There's a difference between hitting someone with brass knuckles and hitting them with a sledge hammer. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-11-10 09:52 pm UTC (link)
	Well, yes, but that's when you're talking about a normal person. This guy is wearing armor that gives him super-strength - he can already punch through a brick wall and cause the Hulk some momentary discomfort. Just how much more force does he NEED? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	earthelemental 2009-11-10 06:21 pm UTC (link)
	Hammer envy? "Look, Hulk! My hammer's bigger than Thor's!" (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-11-10 09:48 pm UTC (link)
	Except it's NOT - that thing's dinky. (Reply to this) (Parent)