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drsevarius ([info]drsevarius) wrote in [info]scans_daily,
@ 2009-11-02 21:18:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:char: punisher/frank castle, char: wolverine/logan/james howlett, creator: frank tieri, creator: rachel dodson, creator: terry dodson, publisher: marvel comics, title: wolverine

Wolverine #186
In Punisher #16-17, Ennis did a story where Punisher eviscerated and humiliated a caricature of Wolverine. How did Wolverine writer Frank Tieri respond?









(Post a new comment)


[info]fungo_squiggly
2009-11-03 02:34 am UTC (link)
Gay jokes. Not classy.

Although somehow I managed to find the "I'm always looking for suspects" line funny when it was used the same way in Murder by Death. Probably because it was used in a lot less mean-spirited way.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]drsevarius
2009-11-03 02:41 am UTC (link)
Tieri later posted that he wasn't saying Castle was gay, though I don't know if he was just trying to backtrack or not.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050218180550/http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/archive/index.php/t-15887.html

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sandoz_iscariot, 2009-11-03 02:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]peahaich, 2009-11-03 03:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scottyquick, 2009-11-03 03:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]toasty_fresh, 2009-11-03 05:12 am UTC
HA HA HA! HA! - (Anonymous), 2009-11-03 05:42 am UTC
Re: HA HA HA! HA! - [info]drsevarius, 2009-11-03 05:51 am UTC
Re: HA HA HA! HA! - [info]jlroberson, 2009-11-03 10:23 am UTC
Re: HA HA HA! HA! - [info]interrobamf, 2009-11-03 07:34 am UTC
Re: HA HA HA! HA! - [info]khamelea, 2009-11-03 07:38 am UTC
Re: HA HA HA! HA! - [info]filthysize, 2009-11-03 07:51 am UTC
Re: HA HA HA! HA! - [info]scottyquick, 2009-11-03 01:50 pm UTC
Re: HA HA HA! HA! - [info]fungo_squiggly, 2009-11-03 11:34 am UTC

[info]ex_darkblade992
2009-11-03 02:34 am UTC (link)
I'm not the Punisher's biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination but making gay jokes about a character because the writer of his book made fun of a character you are writing about damn thats offensive and low.

(Reply to this)


[info]kagome654
2009-11-03 02:46 am UTC (link)
I could be mistaking him for someone else, but doesn't Frank Tieri have a bit of a history when it comes to gay jokes/poor depictions of homosexuals?

(Reply to this)


[info]neotoma
2009-11-03 02:55 am UTC (link)
Well, that's classy. Gay jokes from Wolverine.

And apparently he can't remember that Frank Castle isn't single -- he's *widowed*.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-11-03 10:25 am UTC

[info]mania21
2009-11-03 03:00 am UTC (link)
As someone who does not have a high opinion of Frank Castle or any actual story (I could say the same about much of Garth Ennis work) he's been in, I was smiling for most of this, It was a small petty smile, but a smile nonetheless.

Of course, I took those magazine's, at first, to mean that Castle had a poor self image, or something like that.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mania21, 2009-11-03 03:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-11-03 10:26 am UTC

[info]cyberghostface
2009-11-03 03:05 am UTC (link)
At least Logan didn't carve a penis onto Frank's head.

(Reply to this)


[info]sandoz_iscariot
2009-11-03 03:06 am UTC (link)
Homophobic jokes and violence. Always a winning combination!

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2009-11-03 03:06 am UTC (link)
Always good to know that so many comic book writers spend their time in fanboyish pissing matches rather than actually trying to write a good story.

(Reply to this)


[info]punishermax
2009-11-03 03:18 am UTC (link)
"If you'll excuse me Castle, I need to get back to the 4,000 comics I star in. Look for me in Wolverine: Origins of Origins, where you'll find out the mysterious origin of terrible hair and why I'm a walking Dues Ex Machina."

(Reply to this)


[info]sherkahn
2009-11-03 03:19 am UTC (link)
It was good and fun up until the "what fell out of the bag?" moment. From then on I was saying "oh c'mon, really?"

Really reaching there, and I would like to say the writer should not hold his head high with that.

The X-men, in their own way, are a representation of tolerance and living with those who the world would outcast and persecute for being "different". Lots of innuendo and analogies of who the characters are can represent various states of homosexuality, transexuality and even in-breeding. With those last three pages, though, that kind of "acceptance" and ability to transcend sexuality to become "heroes" just gets flushed down the foulest toilet in the dirtiest pub in the nastiest parts of all Scotland.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mania21, 2009-11-03 03:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-11-03 03:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xdoop, 2009-11-03 03:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-11-03 03:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xdoop, 2009-11-03 03:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-11-03 03:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyberghostface, 2009-11-03 04:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]drsevarius, 2009-11-03 05:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyberghostface, 2009-11-03 04:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyberghostface, 2009-11-03 04:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-11-03 12:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyberghostface, 2009-11-03 04:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyberghostface, 2009-11-03 08:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_darkblade992, 2009-11-03 09:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyberghostface, 2009-11-03 11:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_darkblade992, 2009-11-03 11:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyberghostface, 2009-11-04 12:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xdoop, 2009-11-03 03:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]freezer818, 2009-11-03 05:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scottyquick, 2009-11-03 01:41 pm UTC

[info]foxhack
2009-11-03 03:21 am UTC (link)
Bleh.

I posted the "Wolverine gets eviscerated" stuff you mentioned years and years ago on old S_D.

I wonder if I still have the scans somewhere...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shanejayell, 2009-11-03 04:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]foxhack, 2009-11-03 05:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shanejayell, 2009-11-03 05:39 am UTC

[info]seigneurruei
2009-11-03 03:31 am UTC (link)
The joke would have been funny if it was just a silence, an akward silence for a panel or 2, no cringe inducing out of character homophobic comments from Wolverine, but keep Castle's comment about : suspect theyre only suspect and the joke would have still worked and even be funnier.

(Reply to this)


[info]peahaich
2009-11-03 03:43 am UTC (link)
Childish gay joke aside, this doesn't even work as a response to Ennis' Wolverine; Ennis wrote a mean-spirited but completely accurate (and most importantly, very funny) parody of all the worst Wolverine tropes. The fact that the character lost a fight to the Punisher was besides the point. Here, Tieri doesn't write parody, he just has Wolverine describe the essence of the Punisher's character. The Punisher is a psychotic waging a futile war on crime. That's the point. Tieri just points out the obvious and impotently has to resort to a nonsensical gag to provide a "joke".

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-11-03 10:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]peahaich, 2009-11-03 04:17 pm UTC

[info]scottyquick
2009-11-03 03:59 am UTC (link)
The only thing that could have made me more angry was when I realized that shit, the Dodsons wasted four days on this. AT LEAST.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shanejayell, 2009-11-03 05:40 am UTC

[info]shanejayell
2009-11-03 04:26 am UTC (link)
Yeck.

Glad I never bought this issue

(Reply to this)


[info]suzene
2009-11-03 05:57 am UTC (link)
Real classy there, Frankie.

As pointed out above, not just a bad joke, but a badly written joke that goes on at least a page too long. Fail on all counts.

(Reply to this)


[info]arilou_skiff
2009-11-03 08:21 am UTC (link)
To be honest, i first thought the picture was of the Punisher in the Marvel Swimsuit special. Whcih would have been funny.

This though? Not so much.

(Reply to this)


[info]freivolk
2009-11-03 02:19 pm UTC (link)
This whole thing doesn´t work. Because its basicaly a story about Goliath beating David to a bloody pulp and thats never funny. Its obviously that the Punisher would have normally no chance against Wolverine. But that it is, what makes the Ennis-story, how meanspirit she however is, funny. Its funny just funny if David the Punisher blow away Goliath the Supermutants balls.
But here they have even to include a lame gay-joke at the end. because its just isn´t funny.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]espanolbot, 2009-11-03 02:59 pm UTC

[info]espanolbot
2009-11-03 03:07 pm UTC (link)
Wolverine: I just beat up a unsuperpowered widower and called them gay in an insulting way. Damn I'm good! Time to go and parade around naked in front of some young teenage girls to show how manly I am!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cyberghostface, 2009-11-03 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]espanolbot, 2009-11-03 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyberghostface, 2009-11-03 09:14 pm UTC

[info]thanekos
2009-11-03 04:45 pm UTC (link)
... suspects, Frank?

what, was there a gang running 'round that was like the Dead Presidents from Point Break, but with gay mag models instead?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]espanolbot, 2009-11-03 08:37 pm UTC

[info]icon_uk
2009-11-04 12:12 am UTC (link)
Interesting that Tieri mentions it's based on the scene in "Murder by Death" where the Sam Spade analogue has much the same discussion with his Girl Friday (Who mentions his stack of muscle magazines) as if that excuses it. Aside from anything else the implication of that scene is that Sam Spade IS indeed gay. It also has the advantage of being from a Neil Simon comedy, though perhaps not his best one, so context was already in place.

(Reply to this)


[info]janegray
2009-11-04 07:42 pm UTC (link)
I hated the original Ennis' story, but this is so much worse.

(Reply to this)

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