InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Was it a dream, or illusion?"

gargoylekitty (gargoylekitty) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-28 12:40:00

Entry tags:

char: batwoman/kate kane, creator: greg rucka, creator: j.h. williams iii, title: detective comics

Detective Comics #858

So it seems Kate and her father have a pretty solid reason for not immediately noticing or thinking that the crazy woman in facepaint was Kate's twin/his daughter.

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	schmevil 2009-10-28 04:55 pm UTC (link)
	Hnnn. I need to go out to the LCS for this. Of course that would require pants. Dilemma! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	dorksidefiker 2009-10-28 05:28 pm UTC (link)
	Pants? DAMN THE PANTS! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	schmevil 2009-10-28 06:54 pm UTC (link)
	But it's October. In Toronto. D: (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	gargoylekitty 2009-10-28 07:12 pm UTC (link)
	I'll trade you whatever weather that equals out to be. My room is like a damn sauna right now with the heat(I'm going to throttle whoever thought that needed turned on when it's nearly 80°F out). Ugh. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	neuhallidae 2009-10-28 04:56 pm UTC (link)
	So the guys all over the floor are probably kidnappers(?) but who's the one with the bag over the head? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	schmevil 2009-10-28 04:58 pm UTC (link)
	The mom, maybe? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sherkahn 2009-10-28 05:06 pm UTC (link)
	I have to agree: The mom. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kamino_neko 2009-10-29 10:51 pm UTC (link)
	Definitely the mom. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2009-10-28 05:04 pm UTC (link)
	So now we go from "MY PARENTS ARE DEAD!!!" to "MY MOTHER AND TWIN ARE DEAD!!!" all at once. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	gargoylekitty 2009-10-28 05:05 pm UTC (link)
	Wouldn't be Batclan without the tragedy. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-10-28 08:41 pm UTC (link)
	It's this kind of thinking that leads to post-Woods Robin. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	va1tyr 2009-10-28 05:21 pm UTC (link)
	...gosh, is this a woman motivated to fight crime after loved ones were killed? That... doesn't happen that often, actually. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	greenmask 2009-10-28 06:02 pm UTC (link)
	Huh.. you're right. Huh. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	milleniumrex 2009-10-28 06:29 pm UTC (link)
	Huntress comes to mind, but that's about it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	daningram 2009-10-28 07:07 pm UTC (link)
	Well, joking aside, it's not as if Gotham is that overrun with costumed crimefighters of either gender. Nightwing is the only who really mimics Batman in his loss/trauma. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	bluefall 2009-10-30 12:29 am UTC (link)
	Let us not forget that Bertinelli's original origin was child rape. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ex_stig213 2009-10-28 07:23 pm UTC (link)
	I find it breathtaking that Williams can just switch his style like this. Very, very intelligent that the entire thing - colours, panel layout, inking style, even the damn lettering - is reminiscent of Miller/Mazzuchelli in Batman: Year One. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	jaybee3 2009-10-28 08:26 pm UTC (link)
	Motto. I loved with JW was doing with this first arc. But this is like a whole other artist drew it (and a good whole other artist at that). Also? Notice that Kate has normal skin tones here just as she did in 52 and opposed to the pasty white version in the first arc. So was the first arc's Albino Kate just an artistic choice or what? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	darklorelei 2009-10-28 08:37 pm UTC (link)
	As I've said before and will continue to say, based on how she dresses, Kate going for a very pale look isn't at all out of line with the sort of scene they seem to be going for her. You don't have to like it, but it's not at all out of fashion. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kingrockwell 2009-10-28 09:57 pm UTC (link)
	Still pale one the present-day pages. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	scottyquick 2009-10-29 02:16 am UTC (link)
	Apparently as soon as Rucka intended for Kate to be pale, my guess would be near the end of 52, he told everyone and nobody listened. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	triss-neya.livejournal.com 2009-10-28 08:25 pm UTC (link)
	I like the art overall but I can't help but stare at those lines around mouth/nose and see them as wrinkles - which looks werid on the kids. They would work better as shades/shaded rather than such harsh lines. (not that I have much experience drawing comics other than seeing that 'How to draw the Marvel' way video... ;) ). (Reply to this)

	thebigapricot 2009-10-28 10:56 pm UTC (link)
	So old how is Kate? The twins have a poster of Blondie up in their room (and a copy of Alice in Wonderland sitting on the floor) so that's late 70s or very early 80s. If the girls are around 11 then that would make Kate 40 or close to it. I had assumed she was in her early to mid 30s. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	gargoylekitty 2009-10-28 11:05 pm UTC (link)
	If her mum was enlisted when pregnant then both Kate and her sister would have had to have been born in the late 70's at the absolute earliest(before that time she would have likely been discharged for it). (Reply to this) (Parent)

	meamcat 2009-10-29 03:45 am UTC (link)
	The flashback happened 20 years ago according to this issue's cover, so she could very well be in her early thirties. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	gargoylekitty 2009-10-29 03:47 am UTC (link)
	Good point. XP (Reply to this) (Parent)

	psychop_rex 2009-10-29 05:39 am UTC (link)
	So does it ever say just what faction these terrorists are supposed to belong to? If this is sometime in the '80's, would that make them IRA, or what? They don't look Middle-Eastern. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	kamino_neko 2009-10-29 11:03 pm UTC (link)
	Since this is how Beth ended up out of their life, which eventually leads to her becoming Kate's arch-enemy, Alice, I'd assume the Church of Crime. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-10-30 12:55 am UTC (link)

Has it been conclusively proven that this is, in fact, the case? I haven't been following this as closely as I might have, but judging from people's comments, it strikes me that the Alice/Beth thing is mostly conjecture, not proven fact. (Also, I was under the impression that the Church of Crime was a reasonably recent development - if this is in the mid-'80's, I should think it'd still be just plain ol' Intergang.)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kamino_neko
2009-10-30 01:33 am UTC (link)

The Church of Crime is new in a real-world sense, but it's clearly well-established, though quiet until subsuming Intergang, within the DCU - the Crime Bible, for instance, has 2 lost bindings - something unlikely to happen in the handful of years since the events of 52, and still result in the books being notable, and claims of an edition from the 1500s were able to fool Renee - it's not clear whether the Bastard's Folio exists, and a fake was rigged up for her to get ahold of, or whether the whole story is a lie that was convincing enough for her to fall for, but it's clear that the Religion of Crime is old for that to be convincing. (All of this taken from the Crime Bible mini, from 2007.)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-10-30 01:43 am UTC (link)
	Fair enough - I haven't been following such things, so my information is occasionally sketchy. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kamino_neko 2009-10-29 11:13 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, apparently being dead would certainly explain why it took so long for Kate and her dad to recognize Beth. Aside from that, though...the thing that stood out most was Kate wearing Superman PJs in the flashback...20 years ago, that doesn't work! She's not that much younger than he is! (Reply to this)