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Doop (xdoop) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-06 16:35:00

Entry tags:

char: huntress/helena wayne, char: kole weathers, char: robin/nightwing/dick grayson, creator: george perez, creator: marv wolfman, title: crisis on infinite earths

The death of Helena Wayne

In Crisis on Infinite Earths #11...

And then in #12, when the heroes are battling the Anti-Monitor's shadow demons...

Later, when everything is over...

(Post a new comment)

	pyrotwilight 2009-10-06 08:41 pm UTC (link)
	I always found it odd that the bodies were never found. If they really wanted to DC could say Dick2, Helena2 and Kole were all magically whisked away by someone and all live on New Earth somewhere in relatively peaceful lives knowing what happened but just deciding to stay together and away from the public's eye. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-10-06 08:43 pm UTC (link)
	They wanted to undo the notion of a Multiverse, multiple versions of the same character would sort of have spoiled that. It would also be hard to have a grim gritty angsty Batman who didn't get on with his sons whilst having a version of this older son, now grown older than he was, and who grew up with him all warm and friendly.... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	thekamisama.livejournal.com 2009-10-06 10:11 pm UTC (link)
	....only to have some modern writer rip away their well earned peace with a hideous and foul retcon to ruin them or turn them evil like Superboy Prime, the original Superman and Lois. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	interrobamf 2009-10-06 10:57 pm UTC (link)
	Earth-2 Superman was invented in 1964. He is not and will never be the "original Superman" who appeared in Action Comics #1. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	interrobamf 2009-10-06 11:01 pm UTC (link)
	I mean, 1969. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

dr_hermes
2009-10-06 11:29 pm UTC (link)

That actually confused a lot of people (and still does, although it's not as relevant today). I would look at an actually issue of ALL-STAR COMICS from 1944 and an issue of JUSTICE LEAGUE from 1964. The Doctor Fate in each comic was not really the same, one was Golden Age and one was Earth-Two. And the Earth-Two characters would be tweaked and revised as time went on, but the Golden Age guys were frozen in the actual comics published so long ago.

The Earth-Two Superman really is not to be found in actual Golden Age comics you can collect and hold in your hand. He was a modern construct incorporating elements from the Golden Age character but he was not the same.

This actually caused some lengthy over-emotional debates and skirmishes back then, but such are the ways of fandom.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-10-07 04:29 am UTC (link)
	So Earth 2 Superman is BND Superman? (Reply to this) (Parent)

icon_uk
2009-10-06 08:41 pm UTC (link)

And never forget that the guy waving his hands behind the E2 Robin as he tries to dig out Huntress is the original Ten-Eyed Man, about whom Wolfman has said that whilst he tried to retain some semblance of reserve about his choice of characters to kill, bearing in mind that everyone is someone's favourite character, that as soon as he heard of this guy and his powers, he HAD to make sure that if Crisis achieved nothing else, THIS guy would die.

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	pyrotwilight 2009-10-06 08:45 pm UTC (link)
	Which is funny because there's a new one I suppose given he appeared in 52 to carve out the Batman side of Bruce (which didn't make sense then or when referenced in RIP) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-10-06 08:51 pm UTC (link)

A very different "Ten Eyed Man", who has not more to do with the original than the name.

The 52 "Ten Eyed Men" are a sect of mystics named for their weird facepaint. The original was a guy who was blinded and had his optic nerves rewired so they were fed by the nerve endings in his fingers and somehow managed to see instead of having a crippling variant of synaesthesia. Proof, yet again, as Grant Morrison has said, that despite his rep he can't produce ideas as effed up insane as those churned out in the past.

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	daningram 2009-10-06 09:17 pm UTC (link)
	That was Ten Eyed Man? I read he died, but never saw it. Are you sure? I mean, that guy looks black! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-10-06 09:25 pm UTC (link)
	I was going to comment on his change of ethnicity in this edition, but he was white in the original and was definitely the Ten-Eyed-Man. Wolfman and Perez confirmed it in the Amazing Heroes post-Crisis special many years ago. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ashtoreth 2009-10-07 04:32 am UTC (link)
	I don't get why he didn't like the character..I mean, he could've been Daredevil! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-10-07 07:38 am UTC (link)

He could have been but his origin is deranged even by comic standards, right up there with mongoose blood infusions or learning to fly by being raised by condors.

Daredevil had a weird "radar" sense, it made sense in a superbeing sort of way. Literally the Ten Eyed Man had his optic nerves sewn into the pressure nerves in his fingertips, which somehow meant he could see through his fingers because the FINGER nerves were somehow now light sensitive.. for no reason whatsoever.

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	volksjager 2009-10-06 08:44 pm UTC (link)
	The JSA does have a funeral for all their dead. The repeat that the bodies were never found ,but put them on the Tombstone. I posted this (along with the other Huntress stuff in the old SD) I can re post it if there is interest. ") (Reply to this) (Thread)

	jmacq1 2009-10-06 09:10 pm UTC (link)
	Wow. Dick's kind of a jerk. "You don't exist? Pfft, my situation is -much- worse...I'm a teenager again!" (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-10-06 09:17 pm UTC (link)
	Well it sort of is. She would find it easier to be herself, since it would be starting afresh as Helena Wayne. Dick can't, because there already IS a him here who has a different life from his. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	dr_hermes 2009-10-07 01:00 am UTC (link)
	And it's not that HE's a teenager again, it's that there is a teen filling his niche. The whole doppelganger thing is glossed over in comics, but it would be incredibly traumatic and undermining to learn. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	bluefall 2009-10-06 09:07 pm UTC (link)
	If she hadn't died, no one would have felt there was some kind of "need" for a Huntress, and we'd never have gotten Helena Bertinelli, who I love like kittens love string. But I still hate this. Helena Wayne was amazing, and deserved better. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-10-06 09:20 pm UTC (link)
	Just tell yourself she was reincarnated as Selina's child with ~~Slam Bradley Jr~~ Bruce Wayne and in about 17 years time, Damien Wayne had better look to his damn laurels because if he thinks being Bruce's biological son is a big deal, just wait until he see's what his half sister can do! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	retro_nouveau 2009-10-06 10:25 pm UTC (link)
	1/2 Bruce + 1/2 Selina > 1/2 Bruce + 1/2 Talia + gene manipulation (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	thebigapricot 2009-10-06 10:35 pm UTC (link)
	1/2 Bruce + 1/2 Selina = awesome adorableness 1/2 Bruce + 1/2 Talia + gene manipulation = obnoxious little shit How many years from the time Earth II Batman died until Helena died? Earth II Dick Grayson really, really aged. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-10-06 10:51 pm UTC (link)
	Maybe Dick dyed his hair so people would be even less likely to connect him with Robin (who kept the grey) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	chipsnopotatoes 2009-10-06 10:59 pm UTC (link)
	i'm actually more curious with what was going on behind the scenes with this. If Helena Wayne was so popular, why did they choose to off her? Was Helena B introduced shortly thereafter? Anyway, I'm glad they reintroduced the multi-verse and that she has a chance of being reintroduced back to continuity. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-10-06 11:10 pm UTC (link)
	They wanted to get rid of all the alternate universes. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	volksjager 2009-10-06 11:52 pm UTC (link)
	If they were to keep PG they should have kept Huntress. Or at least have her get snagged by Alex Luthor and brought to safety. Superboy prime would have had company...it all could have ended so different. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-10-06 11:55 pm UTC (link)
	They changed PG's origin so she wasn't connected to Superman. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	volksjager 2009-10-07 12:17 am UTC (link)
	Then they changed it back...twice. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-10-07 12:36 am UTC (link)
	Yes, they changed it back later. But at the time they didn't want to have any alternate realities. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	iondan 2009-10-07 07:45 am UTC (link)
	My pre-crisis history is spotty earth 2 Dick is refering to Nightwing Dick Grayson right? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-10-07 11:22 am UTC (link)
	Yea. (Reply to this) (Parent)