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Tweak says, "diet coke and pizza please"

starwolf_oakley (starwolf_oakley) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-09-25 17:28:00

Entry tags:

char: batman/bruce wayne, char: robin/nightwing/dick grayson, char: tarantula/catalina flores, publisher: dc comics, title: nightwing

More Batman/class warfare tomfoolery
Since I like pouring gasoline onto a fire, here are a few pages from NIGHTWING #99, when Tarantula meets Batman. Batman doesn't know about the whole "Tarantula shot Blockbuster and Nightwing let her" part. And he is torn up over Spoiler's recent death. ("I thought he knew she wasn't really dead?" "Yeah, but he didn't know that then. Or something. Shut up.")

Tarantula takes on some thugs. A lot more thugs show up, and once they realize she doesn't "work" for Batman, they see little reason not to kill her. She grabs one of their guns and hides. Then Batman shows up.

I'm guessing this is the first time they've met. Anyone know?

Well, at least she's not saying "Because you inspired me."

When Green Arrow gets on his soapbox like this, at least Batman knows that Ollie *does* go after politicians and white collar crime.

As Spoiler had just died and the rest of the Bat-Team had left Gotham, Batman wasn't in the market for new partners.

The following could be Bruce Wayne's "take" on the class warfare and "Why would a billionaire beat up poor people" questions.

"Crime is crime, and it's not my fault heroin is illegal. I'm Batman."
Simplistic, but that's Bruce for you.

(Post a new comment)

	mysteryfan 2009-09-25 09:59 pm UTC (link)
	It's not the first time Batman and Tarantula have met. They met during War Drums. (Reply to this)

	taggerung301 2009-09-25 10:02 pm UTC (link)
	oh man, there is a really strong scene at the end of this where Bruce is left all alone and Dick kinda leaves him hanging I think that last scan is from that could you post it please? (Reply to this)

	trelas 2009-09-25 10:06 pm UTC (link)
	I have to say that I kind of wonder why the new vigilantes always seem to think that Batman should just train them if he thinks they aren't good enough, yet I don't recall ever seeing such expectations concerning the other big heroes. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	trelas 2009-09-25 10:07 pm UTC (link)
	Forgot to add, it's a nice scene and I liked how it lead in a way to the final confrontation between Dick and Tarantula. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sistermagpie 2009-09-25 10:34 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I've noticed that too. And sometimes they really seem to mean it, like he's really supposed to do it. I love that last scene with Dick too. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	warpedhand 2009-09-25 10:44 pm UTC (link)
	That's an interesting thing. Batman is supposed to be this super-intimidating figure, but how exactly do you ask, say, Superman to be your mentor? I guess it's the difference between disappointing the protector of Gotham and disappointing fucking Superman (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	autolychus2 2009-09-27 04:59 am UTC (link)
	It's funny. I have a different problem. I always say "Fuck Superman". I'm in Luthor's corner on this. The world would be better without the Big Blue Boy Scout. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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bariman1987, 2009-09-30 05:40 am UTC

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sistermagpie, 2009-10-03 01:03 am UTC

	fungo_squiggly 2009-09-25 11:44 pm UTC (link)
	Maybe it's because Batman is always telling them they're not good enough. Batman: "Your skill set is completely inadequate. You need training." Vigilante: "So you're offering to train me?" Batman: "What? No. I was just bitching about how much you suck." Do many other big heroes meet and critique vigilante wannabes on a regular basis? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sistermagpie 2009-09-26 12:21 am UTC (link)
	Possibly they do. I mean, here you are doing something dangerous. You run into a master at what you are doing. It's not that strange that he'd say you're not skilled enough to be doing this without offering to personally train you. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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ashtoreth, 2009-09-26 01:19 am UTC

*leaps at the chance to use this icon* -

felinephoenix, 2009-09-26 07:02 am UTC

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ashtoreth, 2009-09-27 01:43 am UTC

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sistermagpie, 2009-09-26 03:49 am UTC

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felinephoenix, 2009-09-26 07:07 am UTC

	mysteryfan 2009-09-26 03:05 am UTC (link)
	Do many other big heroes meet and critique vigilante wannabes on a regular basis? Vigilante wannabes wish. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	runespoor7 2009-09-26 12:29 am UTC (link)
	Maybe they know/think he has no powers, which makes him a suitable role-model for a non-meta. They must know about Robin and Batgirl (the fact that he has/had trained protégés). I find amusing that the only wannabe crime-fighter (I think) to listen to Batman when he found out about them and forbade them to continue is Savant. His bark is much worse than his bite. (Reply to this) (Parent)

deepspaceartist
2009-09-26 01:20 am UTC (link)

I think it's because Batman is the only big-name hero that CAN train others to do what they do. Clark can't teach everybody heat vision, Diana can't teach civillians how to block bullets with bracelets, the GLs can't train willpower and no amount of time on the track will get you up to Flash speed.

Bruce is the only big name hero that relies on skills that anybody can learn.

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	unknownscribler 2009-09-26 03:21 am UTC (link)
	Do you see the other big heroes say "You suck, sod off" anywhere near as much as Bruce did? I think it comes down to that if he feels he has to right to be such a judgemental jerk, then he also has to comcommitant responsibility to do something about it vis a vis correcting the deficiencies he takes such pleasure in pointing out (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

mysteryfan
2009-09-26 04:27 pm UTC (link)

Judgemental jerk? I don't see it. He's not being like, the fashion police, he's telling somebody something that might save their life--and make them more effective at what they're trying to do--if they choose to listen.

then he also has to comcommitant responsibility to do something about it vis a vis correcting the deficiencies he takes such pleasure in pointing out

He doesn't do anything about correcting her deficiencies. I don't think he'd have time to correct every vigilante's deficiencies and the time would be better spent on other things. It's up to *her* to do something about it, and I like that, personally.

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	jlroberson 2009-09-25 10:45 pm UTC (link)
	I agree with her, frankly. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	mysteryfan 2009-09-25 11:00 pm UTC (link)
	What about? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-09-25 11:24 pm UTC (link)
	The stuff that can LEAD to a crime that Batman rarely takes into consideration. I find it interesting, too, to remember that Batman only ever takes an interest in the rehab of--some of--the costumed ones. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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yaseen101, 2009-09-25 11:28 pm UTC

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jlroberson, 2009-09-25 11:25 pm UTC

sistermagpie
2009-09-25 10:56 pm UTC (link)

I feel a little dim but...what is her point exactly? He's asking why she's doing what she's doing. She accuses him of thinking he's stopped crime by beating up a guy who robbed a liquor store, which is obviously untrue. Then suggests that Batman has no idea that guys rob liquor stores because of their impoverished background and needing to help people, that jails can rehabilitate people, and that anybody who works hard enough can...presumably succeed.

Tarantula believes in lethal force, no? So is she saying the guy who's had the bad life and is forced to rob liquor stores to buy medicine for his sick granny (which btw, *could* be true, but it's not like every petty criminal is Jean Valjean) can't be rehabilitated so he needs to be killed? What point is she actually making? *feels stupid*

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	mysteryfan 2009-09-25 11:05 pm UTC (link)
	I don't get it either. Except the point at the end about wanting Batman to train her. Which he would have to be crazy to do. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	yaseen101 2009-09-25 11:08 pm UTC (link)
	Alright so I get the whole class thing, so tell me HOW does she intend to fix it? I am thinking of a hundred different ways right now but comics like these only seems to bring up these kinds of things and gives no solution to it. If you bring up an issue there should be some sort of solution or some sort of compromise. (Reply to this) (Thread)

starwolf_oakley
2009-09-26 02:29 am UTC (link)

There was something like that on an episode of Spin City (of all shows) "In the Heat of the Day." Carter (the black, gay guy) is stopped by the police while jogging in the park, and is even angrier Mike is downplaying the incident.

Carter: Mike, there eventually comes a time when you have to stop *spinning* a problem and start *fixing* it.
Mike: Fix *racism*?!?

Also, good sci-fi, and by extension superhero stories, can have the audience think about a problem without "giving" the answer.

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	icon_uk 2009-09-25 11:08 pm UTC (link)
	So would this be AFTER she resigned from the FBI, was working for noted murdering crimelord Blockbuster, killed the (admittedly corrupt) Bludhaven Chief of Police, planted the bomb which killed a number of people in Dick's apartment building, and then raped Dick... or before? I think any even notional high ground was washed away by the tsunami of her own corruption before this. (Reply to this)

	runespoor7 2009-09-25 11:51 pm UTC (link)
	I'm sorry, I'm just enjoying watching Batman pwn with logic. "You talk about white-collar crime, but you're fighting drug-dealers." ♥ ♥ ♥ (Reply to this) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-09-26 01:26 am UTC (link)
	But she was talking about robbing liquor stores? (Reply to this) (Parent)

jelly_ace
2009-09-26 05:23 am UTC (link)

I HATED this arc in Nightwing. This is one arc I'd sooner forget, maybe that's why I didn't take notice of this conversation.

As for the Batman the rich guy beating up the poor criminals, I think it's a matter of how the audience wants to read comics--and who the target market is. I mean c'mon, would you really expect guys to read a comics where a someone, for the whole day, is doing philanthropy work or rehabilitating criminals rather than kick ass? No. Generally guys expect action and badassery and all that. Any nuance of social justice may be sometimes overlooked.

And inbetween the space gods and depraved nut-cases, who's left for Batman to catch? Batman, after all, is all about protecting the people of Gotham. Sure, the guy might have been robbing the convenience store for his mom's operation--but what if someone else was killed? A tragedy for another tragedy, is that how it goes? Maybe he's just trying to stop the cycle.

There was a story in Batman: Black and White where a guy goes for the straight and narrow after being caught by Batman. And is happy for it. And we see Batman, patrolling the city, putting a check on the guy's name in the list he has in his head. I kinda read it as a testament to how far Bats is willing to help criminals mend their ways and how much he really cares about Gotham's citizens.

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