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snarryhols ([info]snarryhols) wrote in [info]snarry_holidays,
@ 2009-08-17 16:21:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:modpost

Rules for the Third Round of Snarry Holidays!
These are the rules for our next round; they have changed from last year, so please read them carefully. By signing up for Snarry Holidays, you are agreeing to abide by all of these rules.



General info

Dates for the 2009 Round of Snarry Holidays:

Sign-ups: Open August 20 at 8pm EST and run until all the slots are full or until August 26 at 6pm EST – whichever comes first.
Assignments to be Sent Out: September 1
Submissions Due: November 16
Posting: November 28 – December 21

For this round we will be posting to: InsaneJournal, LiveJournal, and Dreamwidth. Please watch us in as many places as you prefer. ;-)

Rules

Anonymity:
This is an anonymous fest - you may not prematurely reveal your identity to your friends, your giftee, or anyone other than your beta(s)! Your work cannot be part of a pre-existing series, and cannot be posted elsewhere until after the fest is over and the masterlist is posted.

Sign-ups:
This year we are limiting participants to 60. Please be aware that we will close sign-ups if it reaches the cap, but you're still welcome to sign-up in case someone else isn't eligible to participate. If we have had problems with your reliability in the past, you might not be eligible. Please feel free to email us if you're unsure about your standing with the fest.

Assignments
1. If for whatever reason, you find yourself unable to complete the assignment that you are given, you MUST let the mods know within 24 hours of receiving your original assignment in order to be receive a different one.
2. If you ask to switch assignments for spurious reasons, or because you did not submit a clear and complete sign-up form specifying what you are willing to write, your request for a different assignment is highly likely to be denied.
3. If you have questions about your assignment, or require clarification of your giftee's kinks, squicks, or desires, please contact the mods at snarryholiday [at] gmail [dot] com, and we will act as the go-between for you. Do not contact your giftee directly – remember, this is an anonymous fest!

Deadlines:
1. All submissions are due on November 16, 2009 by 11:59pm EST.
2. In order to receive a one-week extension on the deadline, you must let us know that you need one and send in proof of progress at the time of asking for an extension. 3. Further extensions cannot be guaranteed - depending on the amount of submissions received and the amount of time needed to finish a submission, additional time may be granted.

Betas:
1. All submissions must be beta-read -- NO EXCEPTIONS.
2. By definition, you may not beta-read your own work. You must have at least one other person beta your submission.
3. We will have a sign-up post for betas, and will attempt to help anyone who is having troubles finding a beta, so please contact us if you need help.
4. We encourage you to work with your betas early and often, and to have as many betas as necessary in order to polish your submission. The final product should be something that you can be proud of – remember, you're creating a gift for another person!
5. Even if your work has been betaed, we reserve the right to return it to you for further editing if there are significant spelling and grammar errors.

Content:
1. Your gift must fit your recipient's request, within reason. It is not always possible to include every single element in a request, but this is a gift exchange: if your recipient states that they do not wish to receive x, y or z, then do not include them in the gift. The mods reserve the right to return submissions for revisions if they do not fulfill the request.
2. Fic must be at least 2,000 words in length. There is no upper limit, but fics which are longer than 10,000 words will be hosted off-site. For art, there is no limit but please spend a comparable amount of time – a quick doodle will not be sufficient.
3. A significant focus of your submission must be Snarry – the relationship, whether romantic or otherwise, between Severus Snape and Harry Potter. Gen, pre-slash, and slash are all acceptable.
4. Submissions of any rating (G-NC-17) are acceptable, taking into consideration the request for which you're writing. Please note, however, that no-one under the age of 18 can write, draw, or receive NC-17 rated works. Snarry Holidays has open membership, but we ask that any under-age members read all header and rating info with care, and refrain from viewing NC-17 fic and art.
5. Although Snarry Holidays is a holiday fest, holiday-themed submissions are welcome but not required.

Submissions:
1. Please submit your work to snarryholiday [at] gmail [dot] com by the deadline.
2. Fic should be in a .doc format or similar. Art may be in any accessible format (.jpg, .gif, .png, etc.)
3. Include the appropriate header when you submit your entry – in the body of the document for fic, and in the e-mail itself for art. Please use the standard fest header without making any extraneous modifications to it – the headers need to all appear in the same format.
4. Please pay careful attention to your warnings, especially if your work includes chan. If proper warnings are not present, the mods will add them to the headers. The mods will contact the participant and request an additional warning or a warning change should it be needed, but that the mods have final decision on a warning for the protection of our participants and readers.
5. Please make sure that your work appears exactly as you would want it to appear when it is posted. You may do this by posting it as a private entry to your own journal, to check the formatting and appearance of your work.
6. Formatting: Your submission must include all HTML formatting: bold, italics, and so on. The mods cannot go through and fix your HTML tags for you - if the formatting is incorrect, your submission will be returned to you for corrections. If you are unfamiliar with HTML tags, the mods would be happy to answer questions.
7. Please do not submit your work until you are completely satisfied with it; the mods do not necessarily have the time (or patience) to make a hundred corrections to the piece once you have submitted it.

Drop-outs:
1. To receive a gift, you must submit a gift. If you drop out, your gift will be reassigned and (barring any extenuating circumstances) you will not be allowed to participate in future Snarry Holidays fests.
2. If you must drop out, you must notify us as soon as possible. We need to know in order to arrange for pinch hitters.
3. If you dropped out last year, you are not eligible to participate this year. Contact us if you are unsure of your eligibility.

Posting:
1. We will be posting to IJ, and cross-posting to LJ and DW.
2. Chan will not be posted on LJ, but we will post links to the IJ/DW posts on LJ so that you may view these entries on our mirror sites.
2. We cannot post your gift until we have received your submission.
3. Once your submission has been posted, no revisions can be made to it. If we've goofed up the HTML, please let us know, but if you're still fretting over the dangling participle on page four or worrying about the angle of Harry's arm – sorry, no! Make sure you're completely happy with your work before submitting it to us.

Let us know if you have any further questions about our next round, by commenting here or e-mailing us at snarryholiday [at] gmail [dot] com. Other than that ... start getting ready for a very Snarry Holiday this year! We hope that you're just as excited as we are. :)



(Post a new comment)

As a matter of principle ...
[info]auctasinistra
2009-08-18 12:23 am UTC (link)
I don't know that I would have been able to participate anyway, but this:

1. All submissions must be beta-read -- NO EXCEPTIONS.
2. By definition, you may not beta-read your own work.


... leaves me (and probably other writers who can be relied on to produce solid work without outside input) out. Are you guys sure you want to be quite so firm on that? I don't mean to be difficult, but, y'know, a bad beta reader is no better than no beta reader, and some writers don't need betas.

Just askin' ...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]accio_kilt
2009-08-18 01:41 am UTC (link)
Luv, I enjoy doing beta and am good at it. I'd be happy to beta for ya if need be...

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]snarryhols
2009-08-18 03:23 am UTC (link)
There'll be a sign-up post for beta volunteers shortly ... we'd love to have you on board for that, if you're willing! :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]auctasinistra
2009-08-19 12:50 am UTC (link)
:-) Thanks, but I don't need one (not that any work can't be improved, don't get me wrong - but I've been doing my own editing for a very long time and it's worked so far *g*). It's only the principle that a beta'd work is always, by definition, better than an unbeta'd one that stops me. I don't agree with it (Not that I have to! It's not my fest. I'm just sayin').

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]ivylady
2009-08-18 01:54 am UTC (link)
I think you make a good point here. Often, it's hard to find a good beta reader (I've been extremely lucky so far), and if you're someone who has good grammar and storytelling, it may not be necessary. I can understand the Mods' point, though.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]snarryhols
2009-08-18 03:22 am UTC (link)
Even for writers who have good grammar and storytelling, a beta reader can help improve the story! As we've always done, we'll have a sign-up post where betas can volunteer their services, and make every attempt to connect writers with betas when they aren't able to find them themselves.

We hope you do understand our point of view - that in terms of creating a gift for someone in an exchange, it's really necessary to put effort into polishing and revising and editing, and just generally making it the nicest gift possible, and a beta really can help with that process immeasurably.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]auctasinistra
2009-08-19 12:51 am UTC (link)
I really do understand, as you say, and it's their fest (it's hardly an onerous rule) - but I haven't found much actual support for the theory that beta'd work is always good and unbeta'd work is always bad, y'know?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]ivylady
2009-08-19 02:57 am UTC (link)
Yes, I completely understand.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]snarryhols
2009-08-18 03:14 am UTC (link)
It's worded slightly differently this year, but our policy has always been that beta-readers are a requirement for participating in this fest, and I think that you'll find that most other fests also include this in their rules.

Your point is well-taken that some writers can produce "solid work without outside input," but 99% of all writers will produce better work with outside input, and since this is a gift exchange, we strongly believe that all of our participants should work to create the best quality gifts for their recipients. We're sorry if this rule means that you won't be joining us this year, but the rule does stand firm.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]perverse_idyll
2009-08-18 03:56 am UTC (link)
Erm… Sorry to be a stinker about this, but I don't think I realized last year that having a beta was a deal-breaker. I didn't use one, partly because the fic was being wrung out of me right up until the deadline and partly because I'm just not used to working that way. I guess I'm one of those writers who doesn't play well with others. I solicit feedback when I think it will help. Otherwise it can actively interfere with the way I write, especially when deadlines (and panic attacks) are involved.

Of course, this is a moot point now, because I'm too far behind and flattened by trying to finish my Snarry Games submission to even think about signing up for another fest!

I'm content to be one of your most loyal readers this year. I'm looking forward to sitting back and not worrying about a thing. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]auctasinistra
2009-08-19 01:11 am UTC (link)
Sorry to be a stinker about this

I think I'm the one raising the stink here. ;-) And really, I hope it's a small stink (though I do feel strongly and sincerely about it and certainly don't feel that I'm lazily turning out crap, rather than making a genuine effort to write good fic, just because I don't use a beta) and it certainly won't, and shouldn't, interfere with others' enjoyment of the fest. You and I can read along. :-)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]auctasinistra
2009-08-19 12:59 am UTC (link)
I completely understand - it is your fest, after all. :-)

But I gotta say: all of our participants should work to create the best quality gifts for their recipients

for people like me, who do produce quality work without betas, this is a bit insulting - the implication here is that not using a beta means I'm not doing my best. An arbitrary rule (that is, frankly, unsubstantiated by data - I see lots of good unbeta'd fic and PILES of really poor beta'd work) is no substitute for actually examining the stories on their own merit to see if they are, in fact, well put together.

Again, it's your fest, and I doubt that your rule is going to discommode anyone but me and a very few like me, so it's really not a big deal. I'm just expressing my disappointment. When we started up the new Walking the Plank someone suggested a rule like this and when I gently pointed out that all my stories would be arbitrarily banned, the other mods went "Oh. Yeah, huh?" and they realized there's no value added with such a rule. The stories were - and indeed are - evaluated on their own merits.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]jin_fenghuang
2009-08-18 04:12 am UTC (link)
I understand where you are coming from, but this rule is not just for you alone and we cannot make an exception because then everyone would want to go beta-less and frankly experience has shown that 99% of fics need it.

Even if the fic is awesome - and the writer very good at spag - mistakes happen. In anything longer than a drabble a beta is a good thing. If the fic is perfect than nothing is lost, but it can make a world of a difference if the fic is not. My fics would have been horrid without the help of my betas and even now when I reread them -after the fic has been betaed and posted - I will find mistakes that others missed.

We are not asking you to have twenty people read it beforehand but I am sure there will be someone willing to read through it once before you send it in. The worst that can happen -if everything is perfect- is said beta getting a sneak preview. Would that be so horrible?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]auctasinistra
2009-08-19 01:05 am UTC (link)
We are not asking you to have twenty people read it beforehand but I am sure there will be someone willing to read through it once before you send it in. The worst that can happen -if everything is perfect- is said beta getting a sneak preview. Would that be so horrible?

It really is the principle, for me. I've never observed, as a general rule, that "beta'd" meant good and "unbeta'd" meant bad. I don't have anything against betaing, of course! I do it myself (beta read, that is), and I'm in no way purporting my work is flawless. Then again, I've never read a flawless story, even if it's had 10 betas.

It's the idea that its' an arbitrary rule that does little or nothing to really guarantee quality (and I assume that's its purpose). Again, it's probably just me, and not a big deal in the scheme of things. But why not evaluate the stories on their own merit, rather than on whether they have a "Beta'd" stamp across them?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]anya_elizabeth
2009-08-20 01:09 am UTC (link)
This may be a terribly awful and utterly off-the-mark thing to say, but as I'm not a mod you may happily discount my opinion as nonsense completely unafilliated with this most excellent fest...

But I think it's less about guaranteeing quality and more about staving off a lack of it. With an open fest like this there *is* a small potential for dreadfulness, especially if there is anyone out there (and I hope there isn't) who is more about the receiving than the giving. And I think the mods do evaluate stories on their own merit, but they can't exactly exclude an author they don't rate from an open fest, because, well... then it ceases to be an open fest. But they can protect themselves from being in the unpleasant position of *having* to post a shaky fic by insisting upon betas. A good strong beta might well be superfluous to an experienced or thoroughly revised fic but they CAN work wonders with an error-riddled or slightly weak one. Okay, so it might not make it the best fic ever, but it will make it better. And if a participant is obviously not committed enough to spellcheck for themselves or get an adequate beta, then there is a clear, concrete and legitimate rule that makes them excludable without making the fest another pro-only gig. And then there are the alright-but-imperfect people *coughme* who might avoid betas for possibly negative reasons *coughmeagain* but find the motivation when they realise that they will miss out otherwise, and do find it useful. If only to catch the one goddamn invisible-to-me typo.

And of course, the NO EXCEPTIONS clause is probably kind of unavoidable. You can't state 'unless it's of a high standard already' or something because then those people who have the small but generally non-disastrous errors a beta would have easily caught may be mortally offended at the suggestion that they get one.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]auctasinistra
2009-08-20 01:54 am UTC (link)
But I think it's less about guaranteeing quality and more about staving off a lack of it.

I do believe that's the goal. What I don't believe for a second is that this rule will make a difference along those lines. Again, not my fest, not my problem, and in the big scheme, not a big deal. :-) But to me "We want solid grammar and spelling, so we have a beta rule" is as useful as "We want solid grammar and spelling, so everyone has to wear a pink hat while they write." There's no solid correlation between the two in my experience, and there's not even any way to prove the work was beta'd at all (I'm not sayin authors will lie, but they certainly could; who'd know?).


To me, if the goal is to ensure solidly constructed (Not perfect! No fic is, and I'm willing to bet no fic, in this fest or any other, will be) work, you examine the work to see that it's solidly constructed. There's no other way to do it. It would be very time consuming and would certainly result in hurt feelings if someone's story was thrown back for clen-up near the deadline. I can see why something easy like "betas required," rather than a method that actually ensured a basic level of quality (whatever that level might be). It's just a shame.

But, again - not my fest, not my rules. :-)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]anya_elizabeth
2009-08-20 03:00 am UTC (link)
An imperfect solution for an imperfect world, eh? :)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]auctasinistra
2009-08-21 01:41 am UTC (link)
I would say yes. :-) For sure there are no perfect solutions. Or if they exist, sure as heck I don't know what they are!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]accio_kilt
2009-08-18 01:43 am UTC (link)
After Snarry Mixed Games, I told myself I shouldn't sign up for anything else but then I saw the first post for this... and I can't resist!!! I had so much fun last year!!! Can't wait! *Polishes up Photoshop and pulls a new sketchpad and pencils out in prep...

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]snarryhols
2009-08-18 03:16 am UTC (link)
Great, we're so glad you'll be joining us again!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]irana
2009-08-18 02:01 am UTC (link)
um.. yes... count me in. Wow the year has flown.

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[info]snarryhols
2009-08-18 03:15 am UTC (link)
Excellent, we're so glad you'll be joining us again! :)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]irana
2009-09-08 03:55 pm UTC (link)
Fuck... missed the sign ups. Bah. Um... need a pinch hitter?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]bewarethesmirk
2009-09-08 05:53 pm UTC (link)
I'm sorry you missed the sign-ups. :( We will be in need of pinch-hitters, though. We'll be posting pinch-hitting sign-ups later this week, so be on the lookout!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]jin_fenghuang
2009-08-18 04:20 am UTC (link)
So looking forward to this. It is one of my favorite fests :D

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: As a matter of principle ...
[info]snarryhols
2009-08-20 11:33 pm UTC (link)
We're so happy you're looking forward to it, too. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]eriador117
2009-08-18 12:16 pm UTC (link)
I'll have to remember to sign up when it's open, afer dithering a bit about siging up for more fests, LOL!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]snarryhols
2009-08-20 11:34 pm UTC (link)
We would love to have you participate! Glad we could tempt you. ;-)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

The beta-ing rule
[info]snarryhols
2009-08-21 01:32 am UTC (link)
Thank you to everyone who has (and might still) contribute to the discussion about our requirement for fics to be beta'd this year. We have considered the comments and have decided to keep the rule in place.

A couple of points:

1.) While some authors use betas and others do not, in this round we are requiring our participants to have their fics beta'd in the hopes (a) to avoid SPaG errors that one might miss when they've been staring at their own fic for too long and (b) to lend an author a different perspective, whether or not the author takes the proffered advice. A critical eye can often prove beneficial to an author.
2.) We read every fic that we receive, and asking all participants to have their stories beta'd ahead of time helps the process considerably. Some authors don't use any betas, and they have fabulous stories. They might be experienced writers/editors themselves. We are not trying to infringe on their editing style. As mods, however, we cannot tell some participants it's okay not to have a beta and tell others they must. The point of this rule is to ensure SPaG errors are minimal and for participants to spend some considerable time and effort with their fics (something a critical lens can provide). Some betas are sub-par--that's true--but we are hoping people in this fest will find satisfactory betas. This year the mods will be working to ensure everyone has a competent beta and that meets each participant's preferences.
3.) If you are a person who doesn't like using a beta, all we're asking is to have one person read over it. You do not have to take a single piece of their advice, if you don't want, because at the end of the day we will be judging each fic on its own merits. If we receive a fic that has SPaG errors or doesn't meet a certain quality or recipient's request, we will send it back.

In sum: This rule was made to help the fest participants and mods, overall. We think it's in the best interest of [info]snarry_holidays. We are not claiming that unbeta'd fics can't be of fantastic quality; they certainly can. But we do believe that many authors benefit from a critical eye from a competent beta (which we will be working hard to provide, as aforementioned) and that we can't decide who does/doesn't need a beta on a subjective basis.

(This is [info]bewarethesmirk posting but speaking based on the consensus of all the mods.)

(Reply to this)


[info]anya_elizabeth
2009-08-22 07:18 pm UTC (link)
I am all signed up and very excited! Quick question: do we have pimping banners this year?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]snarryhols
2009-08-22 07:19 pm UTC (link)
We will, in err ... shortly. Stay tuned! :D

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]anya_elizabeth
2009-08-22 07:24 pm UTC (link)
Ah, awesome. I was just asking in case I could offer my services! :)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]snarryhols
2009-09-08 06:00 pm UTC (link)
Sounds fabulous! Thanks so much. *g* Pinch-hit sign-ups will be going up later this week, so keep an eye out.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2009-08-23 12:01 am UTC (link)
How do you beta read art?

(Reply to this)


[info]stupid_drawings
2009-08-23 04:15 pm UTC (link)
Is beta-ing for art required? because I tend to be my own harshest critic and make myself draw pieces about 20 times before even contemplating inking, then halfway through inking I end up redoing have the piece, then trashing it and starting over on cleaner paper.

I'll try it if I have to, it's not a deal breaker for me, just wondering.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jin_fenghuang
2009-08-24 02:59 am UTC (link)
Betaing art is a bit harder than spag-ing a fic. The criteria are not as clear as for fic and mistakes (on real media) are harder to fix.

I am sure we can find a pool - maybe make a community - of artists willing to have a look at anatomy and shading if needed.

But what I think is most important, is that the artist keeps in mind that (so not aimed at you) the amount of work going into it should be similar to that of a fic. Someone who has written a 50k story would be -with right- rather disappointed if the art they received is but a doodle.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]stupid_drawings
2009-08-24 03:16 am UTC (link)
That's what I thought, but I thought I'd make sure.

(Reply to this) (Parent)



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