Snapedom

Snapecast just released an awesome live-from-Portus episode--go check it out if you haven't already! In the Owlpost segment, where they answer listener mail, someone asked how Snape would have been different if he had been a girl. (The obvious answer by the Snapecast crew: there would have been more than one gay character in the books!) The idea sounds utterly cracky, and I laughed out loud when I heard it, but the question actually brought up some interesting discussion about whether the Marauders might have bullied him more or less if he had been female.

Title: Severus Snape Revealed, Part I
Author: CreativeWritingMinor
Word Count: WIP, novel
Rating: M(R)
Summary: Where, how and when did Severus Snape become a Death Eater? Part I starts with his birth and ends when he joins the DE's.
Pairing: Just Severus Snape for now
Disclaimer: JK invented this world and most of the characters in it, I'm just borrowing.

To read from my most recent update:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4230682/26/

To read from the beginning:
Story link: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4230682/1/

(Chapters 23-25 updated this week)

Title: Severus Snape Revealed, Part I
Author: CreativeWritingMinor
Word Count: WIP, novel
Rating: M(R)
Summary: Where, how and when did Severus Snape become a Death Eater? Part I starts with his birth and ends when he joins the DE's.
Pairing: Just Severus Snape for now
Disclaimer: JK invented this world and most of the characters in it, I'm just borrowing.

To read from my most recent update:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4230682/23/

To read from the beginning:
Story link: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4230682/1/

Hello, everyone!

I would like to get your opinions on whether Severus attended a Muggle school before going to Hogwarts or was he home-schooled (by his mother)? Or perhaps he mainly taught himself?

Everyone attends Hogwarts at age 11 or 12. By this age, students know how to read and write, etc. Given that Severus is a half-blood and resided in a Muggle town, do you think he went to Muggle school? If so, he should've met Lily there and need not introduce himself in the playground (it is possible, of course, that their town has more than one school and they went to different ones). He seems to be totally into his wizarding roots that he dislikes anything Muggle. His mother could've taught him the basics (along with his quite extensive knowledge of magic, etc.). On the other hand, he seems to be very neglected so I'm not very convinced that his mother or father spent a lot of time with him (besides Tobias not liking anything much as he put it)....

I'm very interested to hear your take on this.

Here's a bit of Creative Meta for the Underground. ;-)

In our recent discussions about Snape's Worst Memory and the issues of prejudice in the series as a whole, several people have commented on the friendship of Severus and Lily. As I said in my first post on the subject, why in the world did he continue to "love" a woman who had rejected him years ago? It's not so much that they broke up, but how it happened, that I object to, along with the notion that Severus continued to think so highly of Lily, despite how she treated him, that he remained eternally devoted to her memory and sacrificed himself to that devotion.

Realistically, all romantic fantasy aside, I think Severus and Lily had a circumstantial, superficially-founded childhood friendship that both of them would have outgrown, even if Severus had never become a Death Eater. Based on what we see in the texts, it appears that Lily had started to pull away from Severus once they got to Hogwarts and she discovered other friends who could also do magic. Lily and Severus really don't seem to have been all that comparable, or compatible, in terms of intellectual capacity and personality, and Severus seems to have read far more into the friendship than Lily ever did.

I think the forces of survivor guilt and idealizing the memory of the dead had more to do with Severus' devotion in later years than a True Love based upon a solid and genuine soulmate-level friendship. A good counselor would have pointed this out to him within the first few years of Lily's death, but, alas, poor Severus had no good counselors available to him, only Albus Dumbledore.

So here's how I think it would have played out, had Severus given up his Death Eater associations and had he ended up marrying Lily. And now that I think about it, it kind of says a few things about his devotion to her in canon, too... ;-)


Title: Childhood's End
Author: bohemianspirit
Genre: AU, Het
Pairing: Severus/Lily
Rating: PG

Summary: Severus had known for a long time that he and Lily were growing apart, but an early morning conversation about their marriage still leaves him in shock.

Note: Story title shamelessly lifted from Arthur C. Clarke, because it fits.


"The only thing worse than not getting what you want is getting what you want." - Oscar Wilde

( Childhood's End )

In honor of the summer solistice, what did Snape do for his summer hols? When he was a student and/or when he was a Professor-feel free to answer realistically (Spinner's End) or with the wildest locale (Thailand? Majorca? Brazil?).

I would like to point out that JKR said ages ago only Filch stays on at Hogwarts over the summer.

I thought we'd try something a little different this time. Snape is definitely still a major player in this question but I want to know how Harry's opinion of/feelings about Snape changed so that he eventually named his son for him. I know a lot of people find that to be terrifically absurd but it's there, in canon. But this question has two parts in a way-both what do you think and what do you think JKR wants us to think? Is it a token nod of the head or is there deeper meaning?

ETA: Oh! I forgot. I'd love to hear what people think Snape would think of the name. *g*

I should mention that this post and the one I posted previously, are in response to the Snapedom June Challenge, "Severus and the Muggle World." It's only one, specific facet of Severus' relationship to the Muggle world, but obviously it's an important one to address! I really appreciate the discussion my first post has generated, even where I disagree with what people have said. Simply having the discussion at all is a good thing.

Because so many people have touched upon many of the same points in their comments, I decided to compose a single post addressing some of the most common concerns and observations. As time permits (I'm not online at home, except to read text-only via cell phone) I will reply to individual comments on other points that were raised.

Also see: ether_bunny's post and cardigrl's post which further explore prejudice in the wizarding world.

"Prejudice against Muggles and Muggleborns," "On using the term 'racism,'" and "Ethical considerations in the scene in Snape's Worst Memory" are discussed behind the cut:

( The prejudice against Severus, based on class, appearance, House affiliation, and so on, exhibited in this scene is just as morally and ethically objectionable as the prejudice against Lily based on her circumstances of birth... )

If we want to apply real-world concepts of prejudice to the wizarding world, then let us see this scenario (and the five-year history leading up to it) for what it really is: divide and conquer. One reason oppression continues in the real world is because the various oppressed groups are set against each other. To see Lily alone as right and Severus alone as wrong is to miss the bigger picture of multiple bigotries that interweave and permeate the social and relational dynamics at Hogwarts and in the larger wizarding world--and in our own. Racism, sexism, classism, status-ism, affluence-ism, beauty-ism: It's all connected. None is better, or worse, than another. None should be set against another. Tug at one string in the web of life, and everything begins to unravel.

This was my response to the challenge. It was buried in the comments to Sylvanawood's original question, so I decided to post it separately, for those who haven't seen it. Please note that this was what I'd imagined between HBP and DH; after HBP, especially, I simply couldn't see Severus as an anti-Muggle racist. Now it's clear that we're supposed to see him as exactly that - but I can't buy it. It contradicts the picture built up in the first 6 books, IMHO. Here goes:

(and how do you do a cut in IJ? Is it ?)

In my personal canon, Severus had a pretty miserable time at his Muggle primary school, was considered a freak and ignored by most of the other kids, and had a Muggle Dad who walked out on the family for a couple of years. So he was disposed to be prejudiced against Muggles. But:

1. In that same primary school, he had a teacher who showed him the periodic table of elements.
2. And he used to hang out at the library sometimes. It was a safe haven and he felt welcome there. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some Muggle literature he actually enjoyed, though he mostly read (and reads) nonfiction.
3. Most of all, he had his slightly older cousin Jimmy Snape and Jim's friend Tim Fawkes. The three boys all loved the Clash and the Sex Pistols and thought - summers - about starting a punk band, making their fortune, and getting the heck out of their hometown. Unfortunately, they were stymied by lack of time and space to rehearse, lack of equipment, and lack of talent, Severus being the only musical one among them. Jimmy eventually joined the army and, on discharge, emigrated to Canada. Tim has a garage in the town he and Sev were born in, and Sev - well. He became convinced that Muggles were murderous and dangerous by 12, (He made exceptions only for Lily's parents and the Fawkes family) pulled away from the Muggle world entirely by 17, and only got reacquainted with Tim in the mid-90s. But the band is quite definitely dead.

All the same, Severus does like Muggle music, of several varieties. He still has a weakness for punk, as well as The Who, but he also enjoys Christmas carols sung by his local Church choir, and knows several folk songs as well. He (rightly) considers Wizarding music entirely derivative and boring.

And, though he would rather die than admit it, he always thought Maggie Fawkes's flower garden was beautiful!

What a horrid title! LOL But my question is about Snape and his father as well as that side of the family. Did Tobias work at the Mill? Was he physically abusive or only verbally? Or does fandom wrong him, assuming he was worse than he was? Also did Snape have someone like Aunt Marge who came to visit occasionally? Did he have to suffer Christmas crackers with his cousins? Or were they even outcasts in their own family, not invited to the family get togethers?

How did Snape get along with the Muggle side of the family?

A couple of things-LJ users please either sign in with openID or sign your posts with your user name. Also, if you have any suggestions for questions you can always leave them here.

This really isn't a formal essay. It will be short, perhaps 500 words, and g-rated as always. Although others have written more eloquently and at greater length on this subject, it still bothers me. So here goes:

One of the things I can't help noticing about the Harry Potter books is that, very often, Rowling's surface message is at odds with what a reader might see beneath the surface. Thus, racism is the greatest evil - but the whole wizarding world is thoroughly racist if you really look at it. What's worse, Muggles really are inferior to Wizards, and Elves really are happy to be enslaved. Dumbledore's sexuality is a plea for tolerance of gays - but his love for Grindelwald led him into evil, and in any case, Dumbledore himself is far from a good person, even apart from his infatuation with another young man. It's wrong to bully - but Harry's bullying, like the twins', gets a free pass. It's wrong for Malfoy to look down on the Weasleys because of their poverty; it's wrong for the Dursleys to value standing and wealth and appearance above all else - but two, at least, of the "heroes of their generation" are wealthy purebloods (and the Weasleys are a very old pureblood family). And on it goes. The books are extremely dissonant, and this frustrates me! But I think an actually dangerous dissonance is the contrast between what Rowling says about "bad boy syndrome" and what she actually shows us.

Severus Snape, she insists, is a bad boy. Those of us who love the character see him as (1) sexy and (2) as a "diamond in the rough" who can be transformed by the love of a good woman. But girls should not fall for bad boys like Snape and Draco (says Rowling in her interviews), because they cannot be changed by the women who love them. Certainly, it is dangerous to fall for bad boys, and women should not expect that they can redeem their boyfriends/husbands or change them for the better. All the same, I have three very big problems with what Rowling says.

First, as Sigune so eloquently and accurately said, many of us who love Snape do so because we identify with him. We don't necessarily find him sexy. Not at all! Second - and this is an even bigger problem - if Rowling means to show that girls cannot transform the "bad boys" they love, she fails quite dramatically. Once again, her words contradict her story. For the whole point of Snape's story is that he *is* transformed because he loves a good woman! Granted, it is his love, his sacrifice, his effort that transform him. Lily does not actually do anything or sacrifice anything at all - at least, not for Severus. And that is psychologically accurate, in that the person who has gone wrong has to correct his/her own behaviour. But, for a youngster who is just reading on the surface, it could certainly look as if Lily saves Severus by her love for him. And if it works for Lily and Severus, then why not for their own relationships? You see my problem here?

But my third problem with this mixed message of Rowling's is by far the biggest - and, I think, the most dangerous. The teenage Severus Snape is needy and poorly socialized. He would certainly be a difficult friend, but is he a "bad boy"? I think not. For one thing, other than one very nasty word, we never see him threaten or abuse Lily in any way. And, realizing that he has hurt her, he apologizes. Now, I'm aware that violent abusers often apologize for their behaviour; they alternate between treating their wives or girlfriends (or boyfriends) very badly and very well. But this simply isn't a pattern we see in Severus. He is never violent towards anyone except in retaliation. He is not an aggressor. And he is, as far as I can remember,the only person in all seven books who ever truly apologizes for anything he has done. He's certainly the only person who actually changes course and takes steps to correct his mistakes. "Bad boys" do not do this, IMHO. Because of this inner direction (HE comes to Dumbledore voluntarily, not the other way around) and because of the deep innate gentleness shown in his patronus, I cannot see Severus Snape as a bad boy at all. That doesn't make him sexy, or ideal for a relationship. Severus Snape has lots of problems. But being a "bad boy" simply isn't one of them.

But there are some classic "bad boys" in these books. Dudley and Draco are certainly possibilities for that role, though, in DH, both of them seem at least partially redeemed. (And again, Dudley, like Severus Snape, tries to change his behavior and shows gratitude - a very considerable virtue. Yet Dudley, unlike Severus, really is shown as a habitual bully - another mixed message.) But there are two other absolutely classic "bad boys" and they are James and Sirius, the "heroes of their generation".

In interviews, Rowling is still calling Sirius "dead sexy". As a schoolboy, he is attractive to the girls in his class (whom he ignores) both because he is handsome and because of his rebellious attitude. He drives a motorcycle and has girly pictures on his walls. Those two things could be innocent youthful rebellion, but there are other aspects to his character which are more troubling. For one thing, he bullies for fun, without provocation, merely because he is bored. I do not remember him ever apologizing for anything, nor showing the slightest sympathy or understanding for anyone different from himself. In particular, I find his attitude to his younger brother and to Kreacher quite repellent. Sirius warns Harry in GOF that a man's character can best be seen in how he treats his inferiors. In OOTP, we see how Sirius himself treats his inferiors - and the picture I, at least, get is very troubling. I've gone into greater detail about Sirius's character elsewhere; he has many good points, and many similarities to Severus Snape (both good and bad). But he definitely comes closer to the classic bad boy than Severus does.

Then there is James. We see, in DH, that James instigates the bullying of Severus which apparently goes on relentlessly for seven years. We see he feels entitled to special treatment, just like Draco. We see, in DH, that even Severus's near-death doesn't cause him to think and modify his behaviour; he is still hexing Severus for fun, "because he exists", even after having supposedly saved his life. He is still talking openly about Lupin's lycanthropy after the prank, as well. He comes across as arrogant, cruel, entitled and selfish. And there's more.

Severus does try, once, to control Lily, but he backs off quickly when she draws a line. In the pensieve scene, James also tries to control her, and we're led to believe he never backs off, and has some success. He (1) threatens her directly with violence ("Ah, Evans, don't make me hex you") and (2) threatens her friend, and then says he will let him alone if Lily will do what he - James - wants. Both of these behaviours are classically abusive, and, as Cardigrl has pointed out, the second is perhaps worse and more troubling than the first. Yet Lily does not seem in the least troubled. Reader, she marries him! She marries a bully and lawbreaker who has abused her best friend, attempted to control her by using her relationship with that friend, and threatened her with violence. What sort of message about "bad boys" does this send?

So, in conclusion, I'm enormously frustrated by Rowling's hypocrisy about "bad boy syndrome". That syndrome exists, and it's truly dangerous. I believe Rowling wants to send positive messages in her books. I think she is sincere in wanting her young readers to avoid bad boys and poisonous relationships. She fails, however, because she doesn't seem to see that Sirius, and, still more, James, come much closer to being bad boys than Severus, or even Draco and Dudley. I don't understand why she doesn't see this, or why she calls James one of the heroes of his generation while denying Severus that accolade. As Nagini so eloquently says in her song, "James isn't cool."

This started as a few notes to reply to Torino's question of the week about Severus in Fanon, and turned into an essay covering my views (to date) about the character in general as well as about how he is depicted in fanon. It's way too long for a comment, so I'm going to post it as an essay, on the assumption that it's O.K. to write full-length essays inspired by the question of the week. I've been wanting, for some time, to write an extended analysis of my take on Severus Snape; I guess this is as good a reason as any to finally do so. ;-)

( My View of Severus, behind a cut for length )

I haven't asked a fanon question yet so how about a general one. There are certain things that are pervasive in fic-he's tall, he wears lots of buttons, he has a mail order potions business hidden from Ministry interference by using the very clever name of Prince's Potions (they'd never suspect a thing!).

So let's talk about fanon hits and misses this week. What do you like about Snape in fic and what just makes you scream?

This week's question is how close was Snape to the Malfoys? Snape was Lucius's old friend; Lucius a key figure standing out from Snape's sorting, Narcissa came to him for help in HBP, and according to her he was Draco's favorite teacher. But how much of that was an act to keep his cover (like some of us used to believe about his relationship with Harry)? Or was he genuinely friends with them?

geri_chan suggested this topic. In her words . . .

Was Snape known to be a half-blood when he was recruited into the Death Eaters, and what are the Death Eaters' outlook on half-bloods? Is half good enough, or do they look down on him for his Muggle blood? If so, why doesn't Bellatrix taunt him about it? Or is he fully accepted because of his unique talents?

I would just add this - pure-blood families are dying out, is it perhaps good enough to have half-bloods who believe in the 'old ways' to help stop the dilution of blood? Also surely some names are known as pure-blood names and others aren't.

This should be good. ;) First a bit of canon . . . US Ed. p.740-1

"Snape's Patronus was a doe," said Harry, "the same as my mother's, because he loved her for nearly all of his life, from the time when they were children. You should have realized," he said as he saw Voldemort's nostrils flare, "he asked you to spare her life, didn't he?"

"He desired her, that was all," sneered Voldemort, "but when she had gone, he agreed that there were other women, and of purer blood, worthier of him-"

"Of course, he told you that," said Harry, "but he was Dumbledore's spy from the moment you threatened her, . . . "

I do think Voldemort has it wrong-even if Snape loved Lily obsessively, I believe he loved her as best as he was able. But Harry may have over simplified things and probably the truth lies between.

So who were these other women? Girlfriends? One night stands? Did they even exist? I just noticed for the first time that Voldemort said "he agreed that there were other women." That leaves quite a bit of wiggle room.

I would ask that we stick to canon-yes, yes, we all know he was shagging Lupin or waiting for Hermione to come of age :P but for the purposes of this discussion, please leave your favorite ship at the door.

Hi all. I think last week was successful as far as responses go. So this week, I'd like to know what Severus planned to do after Hogwarts, before he decided to make a career of Death Eating. We know he took his OWLs seriously, he seems to have been gifted with both potion making and spell creation. He's a dab hand at Dark Arts and healing them. I don't think teaching would have been his choice. Although, at a higher level, perhaps.

What sort of profession would Snape have gone into after Hogwarts, Dark Lord notwithstanding?

Hello all! Here is the first official question of the week. cardigrl wanted to know . . .

Just how powerful is Snape magically? And how competent a wizard? Some early fanon explained his derision of wand-waving by showing him as basically incompetent at anything other than potions. And there was his frustration at not being able to get the Marauder's Map to produce (which the gals at snapecast had a good laugh about, as I recall, as a good example of his cluelessness). But then fanon seemed to move to a powerful!Snape, when we saw his ability to do nonverbal spells (and how much of that was wandless?) and his cleverness in creating spells while still a teenager. And anyone who can manage to cover a class of hostile kidlets equipped with fire and explosive materials without serious injuries must have at least some power. So, where does he rank on the power/competence scale? And to what extent does one depend on the other in the Wizarding world?

To this I will only add that Snape owned Harry in HBP, but of course, Harry is only a kid, however, he's also one of the luckiest and managed to get away from nearly everyone he's ever tangled with so . . .

How powerful is Severus Snape?

Saw this lovely drawing of Severus recc'd on snapenews - thought I'd post it here in case you haven't seen it. worksafe

http://community.livejournal.com/hp_art_xchange/245661.html

And also a self pimp for me for my recently completed ss/hg fic Three Blooms in the Cauldron which can be found at the link below.

http://asylums.insanejournal.com/melusin_la_fey/10190.html

As you may have noticed I have been asking canon questions on Fridays. Well, sylvanawood and I were thinking of making it a regular feature at snapedom. But I will also try to come up with fanon questions too. So everything from where did Severus spend his summers while teaching at Hogwarts (Spinner's End? Somewhere else?) to why does he always smell like sandalwood and bitter herbs (Don't all the Potterverse men smell like Sandalwood?).

So, to start off-do you have any questions like that about Snape? I'm going to collect suggestions and post them once a week, probably Tuesdays. (Cross-posted to my journal.)

These posts will be shorter and less involved than meta or essays but I think it will encourage some interesting and hopefully fun conversations.