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The January Challenge: Lily revisited

The World of Severus Snape

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The January Challenge: Lily revisited

[info]sylvanawood
1/3/11 04:02 pm
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The Challenge for January 2011:

Lily revisited



Years ago (we've been around for a while, oh yes!)we had 'Severus and Lily' as a monthly challenge.

[info]alicekinsno1 suggested to take a closer look at Lily's character:

Maybe something that discusses the character of Lily more deeply? I'd love to see what some of your ideas are for just how Lily went from treating Snape so harshly and talking back to James, to being the stereotypical "saintly mother" at the end of her life. There's something about her personality that doesn't add up.

That is to say, how her apparently selfless decision to die for her baby makes sense in light of the way she treated Severus or even James. With possibly a side comment about how despite being so powerful and gifted she didn't really show any of that by dying pleading for her baby's life without even trying to take on Voldemort.

Please post your entries here or in a separate post. I'm looking forward to your entries.
If you have ideas for new challenges, please post them here. (This is a new list, your earlier suggestions are still in the old post).
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  • [info]shyfoxling
    1/19/11 07:44 am (UTC)
    What about Hermione's use of it on McLaggen, then?

    • [info]oryx_leucoryx
      1/20/11 05:22 am (UTC)
      It was a simpler case because Hermione chose to use the spell for simpler instructions. Perhaps she could have also made Cormac say something dumb or unsportsmanlike, but making him miss the Quaffle that time was enough for her purpose.

      • [info]shyfoxling
        1/20/11 05:48 am (UTC)
        So you don't agree that illegality or punishments should have to do with the damage something is capable of causing (or damage vs. effort - e.g. you can kill someone with a knife as well as a gun, but not from a distance)? I don't think Confundus is capable of doing as much direct damage to a person as Imperius. (Collateral damage, surely - but that's the case with a lot of things which are legal for civilians but known to be dangerous.)

        • [info]oryx_leucoryx
          1/20/11 06:23 am (UTC)
          I'm not sure how your response relates to what I wrote. Or perhaps I misunderstood your question. I thought you wanted to know my opinion about the mechanics of Confundus. I said, 2 posts ago, that what Severus did with Mundungus goes beyond 'merely' causing confusion. It was mind-control. The difference in mechanism compared with Imperius does not make it a lesser violation of the person, perhaps even worse (because while Mundungus didn't trust his 'own' plan he saw no sign that it came from a source outside of himself, while anyone who had been Imperiurized would recognize the 'high' that comes with it, at least after the fact and know that s/he is being influenced). Both spells should be illegal under most circumstances, and only legal if the perpetrator can demonstrate the use was the best option available.

          • [info]shyfoxling
            1/20/11 07:19 am (UTC)
            I'm not sure how your response relates to what I wrote. Or perhaps I misunderstood your question. I thought you wanted to know my opinion about the mechanics of Confundus.

            The overall point was about your assertion that Imperius and Confundus should have equal status because they did, or could be used to do, the same thing.

            The difference in mechanism compared with Imperius does not make it a lesser violation of the person

            Ok, well, I think it does, so, end of discussion I guess.

          • [info]shyfoxling
            1/20/11 07:20 am (UTC)
            Don't get me wrong - I am not saying Confundus is not also problematic (although less so than Obliviate, I think), nor addressing the question of whether or not it should be considered "Dark". I just don't think it's in the same league as Imperius.

            • [info]oryx_leucoryx
              1/20/11 07:28 am (UTC)
              But what are you basing this assessment on? My impression is that Imperius gives the victim more of a fighting chance (though even them not much of one), if one knows the symptoms. Both can cause one to act against one's judgment, against what one would choose to do. Both can cause one to act on a script that does not originate in oneself - both immediately and upon a cue.

              • [info]shyfoxling
                1/20/11 07:04 pm (UTC)
                But what are you basing this assessment on?

                Something more metaphysical, apparently.

                • [info]oryx_leucoryx
                  1/21/11 08:15 pm (UTC)
                  Ok. Maybe we can consider the following AU scenarios. Since this is the Lily thread, let's look at her last stand. And suppose that Voldemort were accompanied by say, Mulciber or Yaxley, who was out of Lily's view. Voldemort is ordering her to stand aside. Suddenly the extra DE, in attempt to facilitate things, stuns Lily and shoves her aside, clearing Vodemort's way to Harry.

                  Or, scenario 2 - the DE confunds Lily and causes her to move out of the way.

                  Or, scenario 3, he Imperiurizes her to move out of the way.

                  All scenarios end with dead Harry and surviving Lily. But how does she perceive what happened?

                  In the first case, she knows she did her bit to resist but was outnumbered, overcome by a hidden attacker.

                  In the third, she knows shew as under a foreign influence. She knows she wasn't herself that moment.

                  But I think in the second, she would always have lingering doubts that maybe she moved of her own initiative, maybe she didn't love her baby enough or maybe she was cowardly or whatever. And that's the poison of Confundus as I understand it.

                  (For completeness - scenario 4 - the DE memory charms Lily, so she doesn't remember that Harry was her baby. Or perhaps she doesn't even register that he exists. In the aftermath she won't even understand what happened. Yes, that's horrific.)
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