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I haven't asked a fanon question yet so how about a general one. There are certain things that are pervasive in fic-he's tall, he wears lots of buttons, he has a mail order potions business hidden from Ministry interference by using the very clever name of Prince's Potions (they'd never suspect a thing!).
So let's talk about fanon hits and misses this week. What do you like about Snape in fic and what just makes you scream?
So let's talk about fanon hits and misses this week. What do you like about Snape in fic and what just makes you scream?
In the books, do we ever see Snape inflicting casual physical violence on a student? There is the verbal cutting, of course, but does he ever touch his students at all, let alone to smack them around? (I am excepting the situation with the Occlumency lessons, here, as that was a special case and there's only the one time, I think, that Snape actually manhandles Harry in the books with that, anyway, and it's when he literally jerks Harry out of the pensieve and throws him out of the office.)
I was actually a bit disturbed to see the way Snape's character was encapsulated in the movies through physical violence toward Harry and Ron. It may be because I just genuinely don't remember anything like it from the books, so if anybody has any references please feel free to point them out.
I find the idea of Snape expressing any of his temper as physical violence in the classroom/with his students kind of disturbing, but again I haven't read all the books in a while so perhaps that is book canon re-interpreted for the movies, which then of course feeds into the fanfiction.
This is not to say he isn't vindictive and kind of scary when his temper goes to full boil, but still it seems to me that book!Snape would scream and stomp up a storm, and cut people to ribbons with his words, and maybe hurt through deliberate negligence, but he never hit any students, even when they attacked him. Am I just totally remembering everything wrong?
I recall getting into a discussion about this on the snape_n_lupin Yahoo Group after the fourth movie came out and they had the scene where Snape whacks Harry and Ron on the head with a book, although they seemed to be playing that scene for laughs rather than as "Snape, the scary abusive teacher". I do remember that the director of GoF was drawing on experiences from real-life British boarding schools, which do have corporal punishment--which there really doesn't seem to be in the books. The students may get sentenced to detention in the Forbidden Forest where they can be eaten by god knows what, but they're never spanked or beaten. ;) In fact, doesn't Filch mourn the fact that Dumbledore doesn't allow him to whip the students? Anyhow, I think the violent!Snape thing started with the GoF movie--in the movie-verse that is. I haven't really noticed any fanfic stories with him being violent towards the kids, although I read mainly Snupin, so the focus is more on him and Lupin than the students.
I think that he had a lot of bad treatment in his life from a lot of directions, and while he did mimic some of them as an adult (the bullying mostly, I think it was a very learned behavior on his part - it seems the male figures in his life at home and the "approved" and respected males in school all employed these techniques), but unlike the actions by James & Sirius which were applauded and enjoyed, I don't think he would have ever been given the impression that the violence he likely experienced verbally and possibly physically at home were appropriate. I also think that his experiences through the Death Eaters would have brought violence more to the forefront of his mind. As a very young man I think he was in love with the idea of the Death Eaters, but he was obviously pushed away from them and became aware (if he wasn't before) that such actions are wrong. No matter what Harry thinks, Severus is clearly following an internal moral code of his own, and so I was shocked to see him show that kind of casual violence in the movies and felt it was ooc for him.
However, I don't accept the movies as canon. They're a different fandom, in my mind, the characters are all different. (Compare the Rons. I mean, really?)
As far as older Snape, I like the sweetness toned down on some, but I like hints and flashes of it. We know he was an old softie now, so it's not that much of a stretch sometimes.
I love bottom Snape and top!Snape. I love raped!Snape, but not rapist!Snape.
Snape dialogue is very hard to perfect. I hate the use of too many $5 words. I think that makes both Snape and the writer sound pretentious.
Every once in a while, I like a Snape who mutters at inanimate objects.
I like a Snape that has to work hard in most of his classes to get his grades, unlike the marauders who could slack off.
I like a Snape that is crafty, but not evil. Evil!Snape is very out of character, in my opinion.
I like a Snape that secretly longs for love if he's not with someone, and has a hard time telling the person he's with that he loves them. Snape doesn't say "I love you" easily.
I like a young Snape who is harsh in bed, and an older Snape who is very gentle. I like Snape to be afraid of hurting women when he sleeps with them. It seems to fit his personality.
I like the portrayal of young Snape as being neglected and/or abused, starving for affection but being suspicious when it's offered to him. Well, I guess that's almost canon now, or at least it's implied in canon that he was neglected, but this was back pre-Book 7, and even pre-Book 5, which gaves hints of an unhappy home life.
I like the idea that Snape was following the Marauders around because he was crushing on Lupin. (Or, substitute the Marauder of your choice, if you prefer.)
I like the idea of Snape having a snake patronus, even if that's a bit cliched. (Doe? What doe?)
Again, it's a bit cliched, but my fanon Lupin always insists that Snape's hair is "shiny, not greasy". ^_^ Actually, in my head, his hair is just naturally a little greasy, but I figure that if you love someone, their flaws become appealing after a time.
I totally bought into the whole "Lord of Snape Manor" fanon portrayal until HBP came out. My Snape is still a pureblood in my AU fics, where I refuse to acknowledge reality. ;)
Oh yeah, and my Snape's tall, even if he's not in canon!
Hmm, can't really think of many fanon things that I don't like. A good writer can pull off even the worst of cliches if the story's written well. I guess one things that doesn't appeal to me is "Snape as Sex God of Slytherin," because I prefer him to be lonely and neglected (so that he can eventually be comforted by the object of his affections, of course). Besides, isn't that Lucius's title? ;)
*nods* And it is canon, I think. But what I really like is when somebody sees past that and he ends up happy at the end of a long, plotty story (Always, anyone?). ;-)
I like that it is difficult for him to express his feelings.
I love when an author gets his 'voice' right ... someone above me said something about not too many long words, and I agree. It's a fine line between too casual and too formal, IMO
I don't like a really mean, vindictive Snape, and I don't see him as being physically violent - again, in reference to the movies more than anything else.
I like when fanon Snape has survived Nagini's bite, but disappeared into anonymity, either in the Muggle world, or magical - I think he's clever enough to pull it off, either way.
Don't forget Puffin Snape. Hee hee. Totally cracky, and still cracks me up.
As for things that annoy me, one that sticks out is that buttons thing. It just gets up my nose. Yes the movie costume is wonderful. And no I don't mind him wearing stuff other than just "black robes" (which are never terribly well described in the books; I have a hard time picturing them as anything other than t-tunics). But get over it. Geez.
Also, Severus being especially tall. I don't think his relative height is made very clear (we're told that Sirius is taller than he is, and I always pictured him shorter than Albus, but then Albus is also described as tall), so I'm somewhat flexible on this, but IMO he shouldn't be tall tall.
I get annoyed with Snape, in fics or essays, described as Alan Rickman. Although I do love Rickman as an actor, I think he's badly miscast as Snape - too heavy, too conventionally good-looking, and far too old. So - I'm a bit turned off by:
1. Tall Snape. He's not all that tall. 2. Baritone Snape. When I hear his voice as I read, he's a tenor, though not a high tenor. 3. Snape with lots of buttons. Mixed feelings about this, actually - he is, literally, a rather buttoned-up person, but underneath that he's very clearly both vulnerable and highly emotional. Snape is not Spock (though I like them both).
And I definitely agree that Snape does NOT instigate physical violence. I do like him as a good fighter - because I think he eventually became one - but canon Snape is extremely protective of children (not just Harry. Children.) And he seems to make a very clear distinction between physical and verbal violence. Indeed, verbal violence, and defensive/hostile humor, are so much his modus operandi that I'm not sure he recognizes that they *are* violence.
Just my two cents!
Huzzah, me too!
Honestly, I agree with you about that as he is now. But when I first started reading the books, to be honest, the picture I had in my head was Alan Rickman, circa Truly, Madly, Deeply. He was definitely a lot thinner then (although admittedly probably not skinny enough for canon) and....well, no offense intended to the actor, but handsome was not on the list of my descriptors. Smexy, yes. But not at all conventionally good looking. He's aged quite well. ;-)
*nods thoughtfully* You have a point here. Looks like whatever they learn in school is really just magic - which is, mostly, a substitute of what technology does in the real world (i.e. we see them using magic to cook, clean, etc.). And well, something more (like Transfguration), but it's always a very pragmatic take on it. We know they have some kind of wizarding literature, but there's no hint there are literature classes. Or art ones. Or music. Most of their art & culture stuff seems to come from the Muggle world, like the radio. And where the heck are they learning all the Latin that goes in the spells? I can see Rowling wanting to depict her school as more exciting than a real one, but in the end the WW ends up looking as culturally very sterile.
I do love the buttons and Rickman voice cliches. His movie clothes are so attractively repressive and after the Marauder's prank, they make sense.
I hate rapist and non-consensual Snape. I hate it when writers don't really like him and show him as vindictive, manipulative and silly. These really make me scream and run. The 'violent' scenes in the movie... well. I don't know about Britain, but corporeal punishment was forbidden for teacher since I was a small child, and that is a very long time ago. Still, teachers would mildly shove culprits apart who couldn't shut up in class, or mock-smack them with something, but never really violently. The children always know the difference. I tend to see the movie incidents in that light. I didn't like what the movies did with the story, but by now, I think the movies tell the better, more concise story even though it is a different story. And movie Snape is so much better than I originally thought. Mr. Rickman's age? Is just right for Severus, 19 years later. ;) (points at icon).
I like soft Snape to a point. We know from canon now that he does have a soft side, how much and deeply he can love, but we also know how well he can hide that fact.
I can swallow some Snape-of-the-manor stories when they're older. It wasn't clear what his background was until book five. I love working class Snape who always struggles to refine and better himself (probably because we have that in common ;) ).
I like powerful Snape, but not super-power and Muggle-scientist-Snape. A Snape who is familiar with quantum physics makes me laugh, no matter how much I may like the surrounding story.
I totally agree. I know a lot of people have an issue with AR's age, and that's completely understandable. I can look past it but I'm biased. AR when he was mid-thirties... spot on.
Cooking!Snape or discussions about meals is another massive thumbs down. Why do some ficcers insist on making him cook?!
I HATE Raper!Snape, absolutely hate it, and it's frequently poorly disguised as starting-off-as-rape-but-then-it-becomes-e
SexualPredator!Snape screwing students... no thanks.
Never bought the pureblood Lord-of-the-manor Snape.
I know a lot of people hate the buttons thing, and I can totally understand why, but I've always found it to be an interesting deviation from book canon. I think the whole buttoned-up restrictive/tight clothing quite believable, especially after the grey-pants incident. For me it fits his intensively private and secretive nature.
Height? Well, I am inclined to consider him taller than normal and I suspect that comes from Rickman!Snape, but I don't baulk if someone makes him average height. Shorter than average I might have trouble believing.
Greasy hair... yep, it's greasy, plain and simple, but to me that doesn't mean it's not clean. Some people just have greasy hair. However, I do notice (at least from the fics I've read, and admittedly I'm not that widely experienced with the length and breadth of the fandom so I could be totally wrong) that not many people mention the yellowed teeth which I'm fairly sure is in the book.
I confess to being a bit confused about the whole Snape-protects-children issue. I know that in the PoA film he stands in front of the Trio during Lupin and Sirius' fight, but I thought in the book he was unconscious. I get the impression from the books he's a person that doesn't like touching other people or being touched. I think the whole smacking-round-the-head in the films comes from the old British schoolmaster stereotype of cuffing kids around the head. It went on while I was at school, so for me I don't find it so jarring. In many ways, the classroom scenarios have gotten more believable for me as the films have gone on, since they do seem to hark back to that era. I'm hard-pressed to think of other incidents where he puts himself in the way of danger for kids, but I'm more than happy to be enlightened on this issue. There are others far more versed in the HP universe than I. Maybe the broomstick incident in the first book, but that's all I can really think of right now, ad it doesn't seem any more than what any of the other teachers would do.
I have a soft spot for SS/RL - I find it the most believable of the slash-ships for Snape.
Smoking!Snape... well, might explain the yellow teeth, but it doesn't resonate well with me.
SarcasticBastard!Snape is love! To me he's a master of voice, whether that be words or tone, so to see that capitalised upon in fiction is so enjoyable for me. Multi-syllabic words do not always work - that's more to do with the crafting of the writer that with him being especially thesauric (I'm sure that word doesn't exist, but hopefully you know what I mean!).
SexGod!Snape is a guilty pleasure of mine, frequently OOC and admittedly doesn't always work.
I thought of another fanon thing which I don't like... Snape in jeans. WRONG-O!!
I think he can be a little of that on the inside -- he's kind of that way about Lily, for example. But I agree that him being "romantic" in the usual sense of the word is mostly just *gag* material. He can be passionate but not soppy.
"thesauric" sounds like a fine word to me. ;)
Oh! I never mentioned in my other comment... I kind of like caffiene-addict!Snape. It just tickles me somehow.
I also hate the Hermoine/Snape thing. I don't think he'd touch her with a ten foot wand. No matter what her age is! I will admit to reading a lot of HG/SS because there just IS so much of it. And I will admit to some of it being well enough written. But I think he'd rather hex his d**k off then have a romantic tryst with her. She is sooo ANNOYING!
As far as the violence, personally, I enjoy mean, brutal Snape. No, he never actually physically harms a student in canon. But I don't think it is something that would be too far out of character if the situation were merited. I think of him as a very tightly strung band that could snap at any time, leading him to do God knows what if he felt really desperate.
I dislike:
a rickmanish Snape in fanon
therefor the many buttons and the frock coat
black silken boxershorts and black silken sheets
Snape having an athletic body and a broad chest
wearing his (suddenly silken)hair in a ponytail....
All that has nothing to do with CanonSnape.
I HATE stories with rapist!Snape and physically!violent!Snape (especially when directed at students), both of which, IMNSHO, are directly contradicted by canon. Frankly, I think canon Snape is on a pretty tight rein, but while many seem to believe it's all imposed by Dumbles, I think it's self-imposed. And I do not believe he would let it go to prey on a student or other especially vulnerable individual.
I HATE doormat!Snape, which I see in lots of stories that include him (especially on Ashwinder and Potions and Snitches), as far as I can tell, just to have the Gryffs beat up on him for giggles.
I can buy the buttoned up/protection from vulnerability with his clothing emphasized in many stories (especially after the SWM scene), but just do not understand this movie business of having sleeves halfway down his hands. I realize that he's described in the books as having hands that do not, frankly, match Rickman's (especially at his current age) and perhaps they are trying to use illusion to try and make it fit. But how in the world is a man supposed to be handling dangerous ingredients and cleaning up after kids' explosions with half his hands covered and not poisoning himself or somebody else with cross-contamination?
I HATE a Snape who constantly harps on house differences.
I HATE a whiny!Snape who moans all through a story about how he can't possible be worthy of anyone's love, so he must sacrifice himself because there is no way he could be worthy of the "wonderfully perfect" OFC/OMC/Canon character. While I can believe he's insecure, I just don't buy it when it gets over the top. Snape is much more of a survivor than that. And while it appears (to me at least) pretty clear that canon Snape suffers from depression, I do not believe it would go to that extent. In fact, feeling a little depressed strikes me as the only rational response to the treatment he gets from Dumbles, Harry, et al.
I LOVE competent!Snape, but am completely left cold by Super!Powerful!Snape. The only thing I find more annoying is creature!Snape. ;-)
I am quite fond of clever!Snape, who has an extremely dry and sarcastic sense of humour. Frankly, I think that's very canon, in that a great many of his comments are pretty amusing.
I am also quite fond of a working class Snape, and think it's very canon that many of his problems with the Marauders, Dumbles, McGonagal, etc., are that he "doesn't know his place". There's an HGSS fic, Seven Preposterous Things, that is hilarious, but includes several rather touching scenes in which Granger reflects on how much more comfortable he seems around some working class people, and one in which he reflects on how much it would gall the PTBs at Hogwarts to see him with Granger, the current Gryffindor princess. It just seems to fit the characters.
I get annoyed at the fics that constantly stress how tall Snape is, first because I think it's not relevant, and second because it's directly contradicted by canon.
I get a bit annoyed with the super!lover!Snape, but that's probably mostly because it usually seems to be at the expense of plot and/or characters (PWP, anyone?). ;-)