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starwolf_oakley (starwolf_oakley) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-13 16:14:00

Entry tags:

char: savior 28, creator: j.m. dematteis, creator: mike cavallaro, publisher: idw

SAVIOR 28: Confess! You're an impostor!
Many new series involve a superhero going bad. IRREDEEMABLE, THE MIGHTY, ABSOLUTION. THE LIFE AND TIMES OF SAVIOR 28 is a mini-series where a superhero goes good. Too good. So good that his friends and fellow heroes are convinced he has to be an evil duplicate.

THE LIFE AND TIMES OF SAVIOR 28 is written by J.M. DeMatteis wrote about a kind of Superman/Captain America/Spirit pastiche named Savior 28. It is narrated by his former sidekick, Dennis (who looks like Jack Kirby), who used to be his sidekick, the Daring Disciple. The first issue revealed that Savior 28 was assassinated by Dennis using special bullets.

The series so far is Dennis recapping Savior 28 (real name, James Smith) and his "Save the World" movement.

After accidentally killing his worst enemy (Savior 13) and his first girlfriend (Samantha) dying of old age, Savior 28 hits rock bottom. After the World Trade Center attacks (which happen on September 12, 2001, for some reason) Savior 28 is on a World Peace kick. He's even telling other superheroes that fighting isn't solving anything.

Naturally, the other superheroes are suspicious. So they captured Savior 28 and are interrogating him. Harshly. Their thought: Evil duplicate.

DeMatteis is poking a little fun at his classic "Kraven's Last Hunt" story with Kraven impersonating Spider-Man during the "black costume" phase.

Dennis is the only one who is certain this is the real James Smith. Heroes like Captain Crystal and Blackrat III aren't convinced.

Dennis is not only certain that's the real Savior 28, he arranged his capture, torture and "mind-sifting" or whatever that screen is showing.

The death of Savior 13 was in the first issue. And it was an accident. The fight with Ms. Jupiter was in issue #2 (I think). Being a villain and all, she attacked him at a peace rally. Savior 28 tried reasoning with her, then threw a tree at her in frustration.

Whoops, misplaced word balloon.

"... when 3000 people went down with those two towers."
Jimmy admits that part of this "plan" was because of guilt, as well as feeding his ego by a "Grand Gesture." But Jimmy is certain this idea can work. Even if it is a delusion, it is better than "telling the same old story."

Dennis lets Jimmy go, warning him about the assassination we already saw happen. Then Jimmy is rescued by two anti-heroes (or anti-villains) who agree with him. That doesn't end well either, but Dennis doesn't want to "rush things," as this is *his* eulogy as well.

I'm very curious where this mini-series is going.

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	geoffsebesta 2009-08-14 08:52 am UTC (link)
	I'd call it "perceptive." Have you read Kirby contemporary with the Vietnam War? He was not at all sympathetic to protesters. In fact, one might say he was starboard of John Wayne on that one. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	arbre_rieur 2009-08-14 09:52 am UTC (link)
	That's disappointing. I wouldn't have suspected that of him given his New Gods work. Do you have any links? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

mania21
2009-08-14 10:02 am UTC (link)

So Kirby was not a hippie supporter? I can understand that, I for one was rather disgusted with the hippie/Anti-war crowd, and the stunning hypocrisy that was its true legacy.

J.M. states my own feelings on the most recent war very well here. This is reality, and the only way we can remove something like war from the board is to completely remove people's ability to choose evil over good. This would be the beginning of a move towards a world I would want nothing to do with.

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	galateus 2009-08-14 12:30 pm UTC (link)
	Wait, wait, wait--you think Dennis is J.M. DeMatteis's mouthpiece in this story? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	geoffsebesta 2009-08-14 06:41 pm UTC (link)
	When you read it you are between disappointed and sympathetic for what someone who was, after all, a very badly traumatized combat vet. Sorry, I have no links -- try the library or Barnes & Noble. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	starwolf_oakley 2009-08-14 02:32 pm UTC (link)
	I'm surprised by that, if only from what I've read on the Internet (which means it must be true!). "Stan's politics reportedly irritated the two big guns of the Marvel Era. Ditko thought Stan too liberal, Kirby thought Stan too conservative." From: http://nobodylaughsatmisterfish.blogspot.com/2006/05/stan-lees-politics-dodgy-or-what.html (Reply to this) (Parent)

	halloweenjack 2009-08-14 04:23 pm UTC (link)
	I'd be interested in some citations for that claim. At any rate, Kirby, who served in WWII, would have a little more credibility for being a hawk than the Duke, who dodged the draft in WWII, not even serving as an actor in propaganda films the way that Reagan did. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

geoffsebesta
2009-08-14 06:48 pm UTC (link)

Check Thor and Captain America and tell me what you think.

I've mentioned it before, but my all-time favorite issue of CA came out in 1968; the first appearance of Dr. Faustus. In this issue Cap keeps having flashbacks to the war and going into insane, uncontrollable rages. After a while he figures out it's his psychiatrist, who is evil and plotting against him.

Jack Kirby was not a well man. We forget, since we have enshrined him, that part of his appeal was seeing what random, lunatic shit he would come up with next. I read an interview with him once (sorry, no citation) where he said that he research his comics by watching people walk by and trying to figure out how to beat them up.

Another thing they don't mention much was his legendary temper.

But that's neither here nor there -- the point here is that Kirby strongly believed, like da Duke, that young folk should register and fight for their country, and if they did not they were morally reprehensible. Again, I think his Thor issues have the best illustrations for this.

By the time of Forever People he was more-or-less over the political and had moved on to the cosmological, so look for earlier stuff.

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geoffsebesta
2009-08-14 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Ah.

I see.

You think Stan Lee wrote Jack Kirby's comics.

Well, then there's nothing more to say, is there?
(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

halloweenjack
2009-08-14 07:50 pm UTC (link)
Oh, good lord, now you're going there. I've previously made the case that Kirby was the main driving force in that collaboration, but your implication that Lee had no influence on their partnership is simply bogus.
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geoffsebesta
2009-08-14 07:52 pm UTC (link)
So if we can't even agree on what Kirby actually wrote, discussing his politics is going to be impossible, right?

IMO, it would be a little strange if Stan Lee, who never was in a war, wrote a story about PTSD. But, whatever.
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halloweenjack
2009-08-14 08:23 pm UTC (link)
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof; you've got one story in which there's a psychiatrist as a supervillain, some random quote from Kirby that could be interpreted as him wondering how he'd fit someone into a fight scene, and an apparent belief that Lee contributed nothing to the books that he was co-credited with, something that Kirby himself never claimed. You can believe whatever you like, but you're going to have to make a more convincing case than that on a public forum like this one.
(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

geoffsebesta
2009-08-14 08:25 pm UTC (link)
Out of curiousity, have you read the Thor or Cap comics from the late 1960s?
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halloweenjack
2009-08-14 07:47 pm UTC (link)
...you do realize that Kirby scripted neither Thor nor Captain America, right? Before you make assumptions about either his general mental stability or his political views, I'd suggest either reading a decent biography of Kirby or just noting that Stan Lee (in one of the Origins books) took complete responsibility for the severe anti-commie tone of the Marvel books.
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geoffsebesta
2009-08-14 07:53 pm UTC (link)
You edited this out from under the thread, but yeah, I don't agree with you and I seem to be proceeding from the same knowledge base, so I think we should let this drop until we arrive at some mutual understanding of what Kirby did and did not do.
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mania21
2009-08-14 11:34 pm UTC (link)
Truthfully, as much as I respect Jack Kirby, I don't think that he would be as near as much as a towering figure today without Lee. Say what you will but looking at his 70's work, I think Kirby wasn't near as good a writer as he was an artist, world creator, and designer. Kirby had excellent "ideas" for stories but probably had trouble putting them down on paper.
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