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Tweak says, "Why am I always Lois Lane?"

starwolf_oakley (starwolf_oakley) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-07 00:53:00

Entry tags:

char: blockbuster/roland desmond, char: robin/nightwing/dick grayson, char: tarantula/catalina flores, creator: devin grayson, title: nightwing

NIGHTWING #93: A sample of Devin Grayson's work
Given how much Devin Grayson's run on NIGHTWING has been discussed on my previous post, I thought some pages from said run might be appreciated.

This can be considered the climax of the "Born Again 2: Electric Boogaloo" storyline in NIGHTWING. In more ways than one. (D'oh!)

Blockbuster has torched Haley's Circus, blown up Dick's apartment building (killing most of the tenants), almost blown up Bludhaven's police station, and killed a reporter who was standing right next to Nightwing. Then Blockbuster dramatically jumping into the hotel room.

Okay, "Roland," what's the real secret?

"But the people around you are a different matter. Blockbuster tries to shoot a random hotel guest in the hallway, but Nightwing stops him.

Hey, I know Dick was trained/raised by Bruce Wayne, but he wouldn't enjoy physical punishment. I hope.

Oh, part of the problem here is Blockbuster blames Nightwing for his mother's death. I don't quite know why he does, but he does.

No, I don't know what, if anything, Blockbuster did to break up Babs and Dick.

Hey, who is that talking?

Hey, it's Tarantula. She may be Devin Grayson's "Mary Sue," but I really hope not.

So, Tarantula shoots and kills Blockbuster. Nightwing (splattered with Blockbuster's blood) freaks out some more, runs up to the roof, and he and Tarantula have non-consensual rooftop sex while Blockbuster's body is still warm. Remind me how this means Tarantula is Grayson's "self-insertion" character?

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	mooppoom 2009-08-07 07:58 pm UTC (link)
	I've read it. It proves my point. People will expand their definition of Sue until it meets their needs. Their needs typically tend to vilify and cheapen the work of female creators rather than male ones. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-08-07 08:05 pm UTC (link)

Their needs typically tend to vilify and cheapen the work of female creators rather than male ones.

Project onto someone else, please. Devin Grayson is pretty much the ONLY female creator I've EVER accused of Mary Sue-ism, whereas I've leveled that same charge at DOZENS of MALE creators, often on this very comm. You don't get to turn me into your strawman.

Also? I actually used to LIKE Grayson's work, until Nightwing, because much like Bendis has been with a lot of the preexisting characters he's written, I actually like their writing LESS when they're writing about characters that they themselves like MORE, because fannishness is NOT always a good trait for a writer.

And once we get to the rape scene, that's where Grayson becomes radioactive for me. I will never support any of her work again as a result of that shit.

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	mooppoom 2009-08-07 08:15 pm UTC (link)
	I was talking to you, not about you. Sorry to give that impression. That being said, I do think that the 'Sue' charge is being used, by and large, against female creators and not against male ones. I think it's a cheap shot, a way to discredit their work and to take out female characters. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-08-07 08:22 pm UTC (link)

Maybe this comm has warped my perceptions, then, because I just keep flashing onto all the times on the Internet that Bendis has been accused of using Luke and/or Jessica as his Sues, or Austen was accused of using Nurse Annie as his Sue, or Marvel editorial as a whole has been accused of using Norman Osborn as their Sue, or Geoff Johns was accused of using Superboy Prime as his Sue, or Jeph Loeb was accused of using Red Hulk as his Sue, or Brubaker was accused of using Vulcan as his Sue, or JMS was accused of using Ezekiel in Spider-Man as his Sue, or Kyle Baker was accusing of using Morgan and Edwina in Plastic Man as his Sues, or DeMatteis was accused of using Judas Traveler as his Sue, or Byrne was accused of using any number of older male characters who hooked up with younger female characters as his Sues, or ...

Well, you get what I'm saying. By contrast, I'm interested to know which female writers in superhero comics, besides Grayson, have been accused of writing Sues, and which characters those were.

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	mooppoom 2009-08-07 08:29 pm UTC (link)
	Okay, I should have followed my first instincts and not replied to you. I look forward to seeing you and icon_uk on every single thread in every single post that mentions Devin Grayson, though. But of course, that would be suggesting you have a bias, which is not possible. Not. Possible. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2009-08-07 08:37 pm UTC (link)
	Oh God I love you. (Not enough to get an IJ account, but believe me, the love is there.) (Reply to this) (Parent)

box_in_the_box
2009-08-07 08:46 pm UTC (link)

Okay, I should have followed my first instincts and not replied to you.

Or, you could tell me, in your opinion, which female writers in superhero comics, besides Grayson, have been accused of writing Sues, and which characters those were, but of course, if you weren't able to come up with a similar list of female writers and their alleged Sues, that would suggest that YOU have a bias, which is, of course, not possible.

See what that's like? That's what it looks like, to be attacked by someone who hides behind mind-reading, passive-aggressive snark. Don't do that. Have the courage of your convictions to say what you have to say. I'll at least own up to the fact that I hate Devin Grayson's writing, and that the Mary Sue thing is ONE of MANY good reasons why I hate it (and I've already elaborated on my other reasons AT LENGTH in this very thread). What you seem to be implying, however, is that we're simply not allowed to dislike certain writers, in which case, we might as well shut this comm down right now, because there's NO way we'll be able to discuss Bendis, Loeb, Johns, Austen or just about ANYONE in the industry.

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	batcookies 2009-08-07 08:35 pm UTC (link)
	In comics, or in literature in general? There's not many women writers in comics. But literature in general? Yeah, I think I've seen more "Mary Sue" accusations directed at female writers than male ones. But its an utterly worthless term anyway. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	box_in_the_box 2009-08-07 08:39 pm UTC (link)
	I'm willing to concede these points. It's rare that I lob Mary Sue accusations outside of superhero comics, though, and the last time that I did, it was at Russell T. Davies for Rose Tyler in Doctor Who. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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