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gargoylekitty (gargoylekitty) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-07-29 11:30:00

Entry tags:

char: black canary/dinah lance, char: wonder woman/diana of themyscira, creator: aaron lopresti, creator: gail simone, publisher: dc comics, title: wonder woman

Wonder Woman #34
Ready for a Wonder Woman and Black Canary team-up?

Starting off from after the preview, skipped a page there, we find Diana and Dinah getting ready to infiltrate (what is assumed to be) Roulette's underground meta-fights. In the process of getting ready we find that Dinah is truly a master of disguise.

Brilliant!
And so, one ride in the invisible jet later, they're ready to put their camo to the test.

And they're in!
Yes, there is some bit of goings on over on Themyscira of note and some dwelling on deeper things but overal it was a pretty fun issue despite(because of?) a bit of the old cage match storyline and, if the last page is any indication, the next issue should be pretty fierce.

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gailsimone
2009-07-30 03:10 am UTC (link)

Okay, first, holy yikes, I can't believe anyone's taking Diana's outfit seriously. I asked for the most tasteless and trashy Mexican wrestling outfit imaginable and I think Aaron delivered. The original solicitation proudly proclaimed, "Diana wears her WORST OUTFIT EVER!" but it got cut. :)

Second, I love Perez' run. It's brilliant, and it's the foundation we are all building on in regards to Diana.

However, the Diana Trevor stuff creates more problems than it solves. I refuse to believe that the readership is so lacking in imagination that they can only see white stars on a blue background as an American-only creation. I just think that is unbelievably moronic and insulting to the readership to imply. If you look up in the sky most nights, you see white stars on a blue background. It doesn't need further explanation unless you are SO hooked on the idea of America as being the value neutral standard by which everything is judged that you can't believe others might ALSO draw white stars on a blue background.

The "Red white and blue" thing is dumb as hell to me. Yes, she has those colors, but she has more gold than blue. She also has silver. You have to forget about those two major parts of her costume to try to make it purely American-flag-ish. Let me put it to you this way... "Hey, it's Wonder Woman! And her outfit is gold, red, blue, silver and white!" It's pure conditioning that makes us see something that isn't really there. The stars are the most problematic thing and I think they're easily explained.
Is it really a valid point if you have to ignore reality to make it?

The Diana Trevor thing is typical Perez, thoughtful and sharp. But it changes Diana's origin, it changes Steve's part of the story, and her outfit is a constant reminder of this particular bit of awkward origin-shoring. I have done very very very very little fooling with Perez' stuff, for the simple reason that it's brilliant. But outside of a handful of hardcore purists, I have to say that the Diana Trevor bit is regarded pretty commonly as ungainly and a bit of a speed bump.

To me, it makes a lot more sense to say that Wonder Woman's outfit comes from everything that was in the heavens the night she was born...the red of the Hunter's moon, the "W" of her patron constellation (which is actually nicknamed the "W"), the golden eagle that watched over her, and the stars in the blue sky. I think it's elegant, AND when you look at her costume, you're not having to place the odd elements of Diana Trevor and Steve Trevor and all of that stuff onto an already slightly overly loaded origin. If we say that Superman was the last survivor of a doomed planet, and Batman was the son of murdered parents, but we have to include all this stuff to explain why Diana is wearing that outfit, we're really starting two steps behind to begin with. The long-time hardcore often love it, but it is completely baffling to the novices and believe me, I've heard that so many times it's like a broken record.

It's the one major element that I felt desperately needed streamlining. I think it makes sense. We're not specifically disavowing the Diana Trevor stuff, it can still be made to fit with what we've done so far. But I certainly think it's a little more fitting for Diana to be dressed as the sky (and we do have more to that story, including an Amazon opera, coming soon).

Not everyone will agree, obviously. But any writer worth his or her salt has to give a bit of thought to what works and what might be more reasonably sanded down a bit. This one bit stuck out very obtrusively to me whereas the rest of the run felt like canon from the word go.

Glad people are enjoying Dinah. My thinking is that she's overdoing the girl talk a little bit intentionally, because her friend is a bit down and dour.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	gailsimone 2009-07-30 03:26 am UTC (link)
	I will add that I think John Byrne's much-maligned modification of the wonder-pants, with fewer stars, really removed the flag association quite neatly. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

I agree..Furthermore..

steverodgers5
2009-07-30 12:01 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, whether it was the intent or not I've always thought that that did make her look 'less american'..So props for Byrne! Poor guy never get's any credit around here..

So do you think then that we might see less stars on it on future issues then? Or is that something that's outside of your control? ...Though truth be told, it does'nt bother me much, as I'm Scottish, and to me Captain America is the be all and end all of American values/dream type symbolism. (See Icon/Name) I don't really think it's needed for Diana. I always see her as an Amazon first and foremost which is one of the reason's I'm really starting to enjoy this arc, as it's always fun seeing what happens when you try to strip away the symbolic backgrounds to see the person underneath..(My favourite Captain America story line is still Mark Gruenwald's 'Captain America No More' 18 parter from the 80es. Part of me still wishes that Steve Rodgers was still 'The Captain' as to me he's such a perfect hero that he should be about more than just the US of A..
(Having said that I would'nt like Diana to lose the look she has, as to me it's really iconic..and I don't feel it's lessoned or strengthened by any associations that other people might make over it being American or not..)

On another note, for almost all of my life I've been mostly a Marvel guy, with most of my interest in DC coming from the movies/animation side of things.. That has for the most part meant that a lot of the dc issues I've dipped into have been either Justice League, or Bats/Superman related..

But thanks to this place I've expanded my horizons a bit, and now reading your run on the title, and having recently seen the animated flick, I think after years of not understanding the fuss about the character I think I'm finally starting to 'get' Diana.
And I'm now actually reading this title before almost all of the marvel issues I pick up. So keep up the good work, and try not to let the naysayers get you down. As I for one, am really enjoying the ride. So I hope you stay with the title for a good while to come..

P.S I've been so impressed with it lately that I've started checking out Secret Six, and I'm really enjoying that too. (It's what Thunderbolts should have been like..)Never thought I'd ever like Bane as a character, but he's a lot of fun now..And I'm now counting the days until the next issue with Diana getting in on the action! Hope it's every bit as good what's came before...Quality work on both!

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Re: I agree..Furthermore..

gailsimone
2009-07-30 01:21 pm UTC (link)

Thank you, Steve, that's very kind of you to say. Marvel is putting out a lot of great stuff lately, and Ed Brubaker and Paul Cornell in particular seem like they can do no wrong. I'm hoping Paul pops over and does some DC stuff soon, but Ed seems really happy at Marvel.

We have a really fun Secret Six arc coming up next, after two really dark ones. It's going to be a good, filthy time!

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Re: I agree..Furthermore..

steverodgers5
2009-07-31 05:59 pm UTC (link)

Your very welcome. Yeah I have been enjoying Ed Brubaker's work on Cap, especially now that he's bringing Steve back! But I'm quite saddened by Paul Cornell's Captain Britain/MI3 title being cancelled as that was a really nice antidote to all the 'dark' titles at Marvel just now. But that's the way the cookie crumbles. Though I'm sure he'll bounce back though with whatever he does next..

I am looking forward to the next Secret Six arc, as I'm just loving the interactions between the characters just now. I really like the fact that I never quite know which way they're going to go, but when they do choose how they're going to deal with the problems that beset them, it always seems to make sense..And that's good writing. So keep up the good work!

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colonel_green
2009-07-30 03:39 am UTC (link)

At the end of the day, I don't think trying to divorce Diana's costume from the American flag will work, for the simple reason that readers know it quite obviously is based on the American flag. Whatever the in-story justification, she's wearing the US flag; in her original incarnation, and in many others (such as the recent DVD), it was quite explicitly the US flag. She was created to be a patriotic superhero. Perez's story's acknowledgement that it was the US flag and justification of that is more workable in that sense.

If I created my own "Wonder Woman" patriotic hero, and she wore a red and white costume with her underwear covered in stylized maple leaves, and then tried in-story to say that she wasn't wearing the Canadian flag, it wouldn't fly.

If you could successfully divorce the costume from the flag in readers' minds, it would be a good idea, but I think it's a futile attempt.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

gailsimone
2009-07-30 03:48 am UTC (link)

We'll see. ;)

You may be right, but I don't think so. The goal isn't to remove all connection to the flag in the minds of everyone who sees WW forever, it's to have a decent, simple, and sensible in-story rationale for why her costume has the elements it does. That is a much different standard. The previous generation of comics readers accepted the Diana Trevor story, for the most part, which is wildly more complicated than this and a HUGE intrusion on the golden age origin. My smoothing out the edges is very minor in comparison.

And again, the one element from the flag is the stars. There is no maple leaf or similar American counterpart.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	parsimonia 2009-07-30 06:16 am UTC (link)
	If I created my own "Wonder Woman" patriotic hero, and she wore a red and white costume with her underwear covered in stylized maple leaves, and then tried in-story to say that she wasn't wearing the Canadian flag, it wouldn't fly. ...mkay, now I really want to see Canadian!Wonder Woman. (Reply to this) (Parent)

bluefall
2009-07-30 07:03 am UTC (link)

The original solicitation proudly proclaimed, "Diana wears her WORST OUTFIT EVER!" but it got cut. :)

.... Who would cut such beauty? ;_;

If we say that Superman was the last survivor of a doomed planet, and Batman was the son of murdered parents, but we have to include all this stuff to explain why Diana is wearing that outfit, we're really starting two steps behind to begin with.

False parallel. Diana is the best of a race of mythical women. This is no more or less complicated than Bruce being an orphaned eight-year-old or Clark being the last son of a dead planet. If someone then asks "well, in that case, why is she wearing the American flag for a bathing suit," that question is equivalent to "if he's an alien, why is he wearing an S," or "so what's with the bat obsession." The answers to which - "it's coincidentally the symbol of his alien parents," and "he realized criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot, and that something scary and ominous like a bat would scare them," respectively, are again, no more or less complicated than "she wears those colors to honor an American pilot who gave her life for an amazon."

Is there a great deal more to all three of those stories, of course. This is comics. But there's absolutely nothing about the Diana Rockwell story that's particularly more convoluted than any equivalent piece of Clark or Bruce's history, at any level of detail.

You have to forget about those two major parts of her costume to try to make it purely American-flag-ish.

But you've said it's the American flag anyway by saying that Betsy Ross was inspired by the Amazons. Reversing the order of inspiration doesn't change the equivalence.

Also, I must know if you and Sholly Fisch talked about this before he wrote the last issue of SUPER FRIENDS, else I may go mad.

I certainly think it's a little more fitting for Diana to be dressed as the sky

More fitting than saying she dresses to honor a woman from our world, a lowly human, who made an amazing, Wonder Woman-like sacrifice for a perfect stranger? Because I think that's a pretty powerful message to lose for mere astrology.

I mean it's academic at this point obviously, I'm just saying. :)

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gailsimone
2009-07-30 01:16 pm UTC (link)

"False parallel. Diana is the best of a race of mythical women. "

That is not an origin, Bluefall. It's a condition. There is a huge difference.

Wonder Woman's origin is not easily encapsulated, and her visual elements are (barring the lasso) complex to explain and not exactly thrilling to the novice reader. "She's from a race of warrior women" explains nothing about motivation, it's merely a starting point to a much longer explanation for why she does what she does. It's not a 'false parallel' at all. Batman and Superman can be explained in a compelling sentence...Wonder Woman, much less so, at least after Perez's revamp.

And your examples here prove my point, I'm afraid. Kal El wearing an "s" needed to be explained in the exact same way as what I'm describing, a simple, in-story answer that can be explained in a flash...It's his family crest, and the name "Superman" came from its similarity to our letter "s." That is simple, elegant, and a debate killer. If we had had a long flashback story about how Lois Lane's grandpa was an astronaut who met Jor El through a wormhole and left behind a scarf with the letter "S" on it, and that inspired the Kryptonians to...blah blah blah blah, well, you can perhaps see how ungainly that would have been.

Huge difference. One caters to the hardcore purist, one is designed to be a little less intrusive. In the Superman case, certainly, they found an answer that works. The Bat obsession is an even better example. If we had three issues on how that bat was a pet bat that belonged to Thomas Wayne's great uncle and had been trained to crash through windows, and...well, there's a small group that eats that stuff up. But it IS a small group, and I maintain that it's detrimental to the story.

Mark Waid added some odd stuff to the Flash origin, I believe, explaining the flash of lightning in a newly complicated way. Does anyone even refer to that any more?

The biggest element I added to Diana's origin is probably the Circle, and it can be easily removed from retelling Diana's origin without affecting the main story. It's when you build onto the house with scrap lumber and twine that you get an awkward construct.

You like that story, that's fine. But it's been a bone of contention for a very long time and a bit of a stumbling block. If you have to explain WW's costume by explaining that story, it really sounds uncomfortable AND it diminishes the impact of the Steve Trevor part of the story.

It's still there for people who like it. We're not 'retconning' it or disavowing it, in story. But even using that story, it doesn't fully explain Diana's costume AND it does tie her specifically to the American flag, which I think is a bit off-note for the character.

"But you've said it's the American flag anyway by saying that Betsy Ross was inspired by the Amazons. Reversing the order of inspiration doesn't change the equivalence."

Weird. You've got this wrong. If Diana's story is true, then the Amazons inspired the flag. They obviously didn't take all the elements. "Inspired" doesn't mean "identical." And if Diana's outfit inspired the flag, then it's America that borrowed from the Amazons, much as the Swastika means something completely different to Buddhists.

I don't read SuperFriends. This is something we've had in mind for a long time. But to be fair, it could just be a bit of cultural mythology.
(cont)

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gailsimone
2009-07-30 01:16 pm UTC (link)

(cont)

"More fitting than saying she dresses to honor a woman from our world, a lowly human, who made an amazing, Wonder Woman-like sacrifice for a perfect stranger? Because I think that's a pretty powerful message to lose for mere astrology."

Well, hell, yes, a LOT more fitting. First, that story is complicated. If someone asks how Diana's costume came to be, and you have to explain all that stuff with Steve Trevor and Diana Trevor, and why in the world would they choose her in particular to emulate when they have had hundreds of gods and valiant women making such sacrifices and why would the Amazons pay tribute to a particular country's flag anyway when that seems deliberately antagonistic to their message of world peace and why are they still so suspicious when Steve shows up and why wasn't he honored immediately when his relative is this huge Amazon hero and I'm sorry, Bluefall, but the whole thing is a huge ball of chunky peanut butter and a massive pain in the ass to explain in the story. The RECAP takes a page every time, and if you'll notice, most writers avoid it entirely, unlike most of George's brilliant work on the origin. There's a reason why, and that's that only purists like it and that it is awkward, awkward, awkward.

And since when are the heavens "mere astrology" for the Amazons? That's like saying Olympus is "merely clouds." We're going to tell the complete origin of Diana's costume pretty soon. It won't negate the Diana Trevor story. But it will answer some questions that the Diana Trevor story does not.

Sometimes we get a bit hung up on the comic book continuity academia to the detriment of the readership and the story. I believe that's what's happening here. If you like that addition, it is still there. I don't believe in negating stories if it's at all avoidable. But I'm all for repainting when the house has some weather damage.

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bluefall
2009-07-30 02:38 pm UTC (link)

If you like that addition, it is still there.

But see, no it isn't. The single most important message of that story is not that Diana Rockwell did anything for the amazons, it's that our Diana honors her. The amazons, particularly Diana, are routinely accused of arrogance. Of xenophobia. Of thinking they're better than us. Of looking down on us. Of all kinds of nonsense that completely misses the point. Diana Rockwell is the single most powerful refutation of that the mythos has ever had - not only do they not look down on us, they honor us so highly that their own princess wears the colors of one of us. Diana looking up to one of her gods, or to other amazons, doesn't begin to come close to that. Taking out the "Diana Rockwell is why I wear this" completely guts that whole story, removes its entire purpose.

That is not an origin, Bluefall. It's a condition. There is a huge difference.

... how's that any different than "last survivor of an alien race"? That doesn't tell you anything about Clark whatsoever. It doesn't tell you why he chose to be a hero, it doesn't tell you what his powers are, it doesn't tell you why he's a reporter or, frankly, why you should care about him at all. It's just who he is. Clark is the last of his race, Diana is the best of her race. I'm really not seeing any distinction there.

If we had had a long flashback story about how Lois Lane's grandpa was an astronaut who met Jor El through a wormhole and left behind a scarf with the letter "S" on it, and that inspired the Kryptonians to...blah blah blah blah, well, you can perhaps see how ungainly that would have been.

Well, really, we've had a dozen or more of those, and yes, they are ungainly. So? In the end, it easily pares down to "it's the crest of the House of El," which takes precisely one sentence to explain. Likewise, Diana Rockwell Trevor is a bit ungainly to lay out in full detail. However, in the end, it easily pares down to "she wears those colors to honor an American who died for an amazon," which takes precisely one sentence to explain.

If Diana's story is true, then the Amazons inspired the flag.

It doesn't matter who inspired who. Prior to your retcon, the American flag inspired the amazons. As of your retcon, the amazons inspired the American flag. Either way, Diana's wearing an American flag. Your point with the swastika actually makes mine. Both the Buddhist symbol and the Nazi symbols are swastikas. Which one came first is irrelevant. Either way it doesn't make either of them any less a swastika, or give either group any more or less claim to it. And even though the Buddhist symbol did come first, how many people in your audience are going to see it and think "oh, Buddhism" and not "oh, Nazis"? However few, it's still more than are going to look at Diana's costume and think "oh, star fields" and not "oh, American flag."

if you'll notice, most writers avoid it entirely

If you'll notice, most writers avoid everything that came before them entirely, regardless of how gainly it might be. However, Jimenez, WML and Rucka all managed to reference Diana Rockwell just fine without any awkwardness.

I don't read SuperFriends. This is something we've had in mind for a long time. But to be fair, it could just be a bit of cultural mythology.

Psh. Next you'll be telling me there's nothing sinister about aglets.

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gailsimone
2009-07-30 02:57 pm UTC (link)

Wow. I'm out of time to discuss this this morning, but MAN there's a lot here I disagree with.

You're dead wrong about the Diana Rockwell thing. It absolutely is not negated by what I've done and I think it's a bit weird you keep insisting that it is. We haven't even seen that story yet, and it's only been hinted at so far. "completely guts that whole story"? Really? That seems a trifle melodramatic, considering that it's not even remotely true.

"However, in the end, it easily pares down to "she wears those colors to honor an American who died for an amazon," which takes precisely one sentence to explain."

I maintain that that explains precisely nothing. "Crest of the House of El" is clean, smart, and easy to understand. What you've said here merely brings up a dozen more questions. If you know they answers to those questions, wonderful. If you don't, you've just complicated the origin needlessly and explained absolutely zilch. What American? What Amazon? How did she die? I'll also add that there is nothing, not a blessed thing, added emotionally in that sentence, so it's hard to justify for dramatic reasons, as well.

"Crest of the House of El" doesn't need footnotes and a flashback. It is good juice. "she wears those colors to honor an American who died for an amazon," is a sentence, I'll give you that. But it's not MUCH of a sentence, and it's even less of an explanation.

We can disagree in the end, but certainly, that story has been problematic for a long time and even some of the writers you mention aren't nuts about it, if I remember correctly.

I think this, by the way, "f you'll notice, most writers avoid everything that came before them entirely, regardless of how gainly it might be" is just silly. Name a DC writer, particularly a WW writer, who avoids EVERYTHING that came before, entirely. Come on, Blue.

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bluefall, 2009-07-30 03:10 pm UTC

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gailsimone, 2009-07-30 05:43 pm UTC

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gailsimone, 2009-07-30 05:47 pm UTC

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batcookies, 2009-07-30 09:00 pm UTC

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magus_69, 2009-08-01 08:01 am UTC

parsimonia
2009-07-30 04:54 pm UTC (link)

Okay, I am a little wary of treading into this conversation when you've both got your Wondy-Fu on (*g*), however, I cannot resist arguing with this one point:

The amazons, particularly Diana, are routinely accused of arrogance. Of xenophobia. Of thinking they're better than us. Of looking down on us. Of all kinds of nonsense that completely misses the point. Diana Rockwell is the single most powerful refutation of that the mythos has ever had - not only do they not look down on us, they honor us so highly that their own princess wears the colors of one of us.

It's interesting that Diana and the Amazons are often perceived as arrogant, xenophobic, and think-they're-better-than-us, especially in a discussion with respect to whether or not her costume should be acknowledged as American, because the same could be (and is often) said about America and Americans.

On the one hand, no matter how you look at it, Wonder Woman is American. Created by an American, published by Americans, and frequently written/drawn by Americans, stories featuring her are intended for an American audience, her stories often take place in America, most of her non-Themysciran friends and allies are American, etc, etc. On a meta-level you can never separate Wonder Woman from America. So, yeah, it does seem silly to pretend there were some amazing circumstances where it turns out that the American flag was actually inspired by Wonder Woman/the Amazons.

On the other hand, she's not supposed to be American within the story, is she? She's from an all-woman culture evolving out of ancient Greece that was isolated from everyone and everywhere else on Earth, where the gods and Greek mythology are real and she was made from clay. How do you make that mesh with the American influences involved in her creation?

Not only does the idea of the Amazons honouring a woman from the outside world by paying tribute to the flag of that woman's country put a kind of limit on Diana, as being focused on America rather than the world at large (for one thing you'd think she'd want to explore modern Greece more than the States), but it also brings her down a peg and lessens her purpose. The idea that she has to wear the American flag on her butt to prove that she doesn't look down on Americans kind of ties in with how people think Superman is the best kind of immigrant, because he completely and totally embraces American culture as his own, and doesn't display or try to introduce Kryptonian culture to anyone.

Whereas Wonder Woman is an immigrant, she's supposed to be different and her influence is supposed to better the world. So why do we need to make her bow down and have her costume symbolically representing another country, when her own values and what she stands for probably often conflict with it? It's like saying "you're only okay if you're one of us, you know, now get in that melting pot". (I think it would actually be a fascinating theme to explore, really, given the increases in globalization, immigration and xenophobia we're seeing in the world today.)

She doesn't have the same connection to the US that Superman and Batman always will. It's the place where a lot of her friends live, so she spends a lot of her time there. I like that she's a misfit and an oddball in America, representing truth but also uncomfortable truths. I like that conflict, because it is tricky and sometimes difficult to take. Wonder Woman is always going to be complicated and have uncomfortable elements about her, but that's one of the things I like about her.

(But really, if they made a WW movie I would probably be happy just to watch her punch stuff, so long as there were no "you hit pretty well for a girl"/"not polite to hit a lady" jokes. >_< )

(Reply to this) (Parent)

bluefall
2009-07-30 02:43 pm UTC (link)

Also, I'm not sure why you think it interferes with Steve. You don't even have to bring Steve into it, any more than you have to explain that Jor-El sent Clark to Earth specifically because he had a hyperspace conversation with Thomas Wayne before either Clark or Bruce were ever born. Yes, it takes two issues to explain that. And if you want it explained, you can read those two issues. If you're just curious what the deal is with Clark, whoever you're talking to probably isn't even going to bring it up, because it's superfluous.

Also also, your icon is making me miss my dogs terribly, and that is very mean of you.

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gailsimone
2009-07-30 02:48 pm UTC (link)

How can you NOT bring Steve into it? That makes no sense. It's Diana Rockwell TREVOR. George brought Steve into it when he wrote the story.

This isn't making any sense, Bluefall. I get that you like the story. I like the story as well, on its own merits. But as a justification for Diana's outfit, it is way too arcane and complicated AND it makes the story about someone else, someone other than Diana. Diana's origin should be about herself and Hippolyta at its core, I feel.

Finally, there's something lovely about her costume representing the heavens, where both gods and Amazon princesses dwell, in my opinion. Since I have changed so little of what George set up, I think it's okay to carefully, carefully, add another possible explanation for the costume.

And I missed my stupid dogs every day while I was in SDCC, but when I come get 'Scuro from the kennel, every time, he reacts like it's the happiest day in the history of happy days. He comes running down the vet's hallway, nails scrabbling like crazy and dragging some poor assistant behind him on a leash, then he jumps and prances when he sees me like he can't BELIEVE I came back for him.

It's pretty cute. :)

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bluefall, 2009-07-30 03:04 pm UTC

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bluefall, 2009-07-31 12:24 am UTC

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gailsimone, 2009-07-31 05:16 am UTC

nevermore999
2009-07-30 06:53 pm UTC (link)

Gail, I'd just like to thank you for explaining. I'm not sure I 110% agree with you, but I certainly understand a whole lot better now, and am now pretty much fine with the retcon. I'd just like to say it's great to have you come in here and talk things out with us.

And the Amazons inspiring Betsy Ross is so cracky, I can't help but love it a little. I'm glad to hear Diana Trevor won't be completely retconned.

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gailsimone
2009-07-30 11:07 pm UTC (link)

Bluefall's posts are making me re-think the Diana Rockwell thing a bit, too. I always liked it, but I assure you, she and I are in the very small minority regarding that tale and its impact on Diana. But there might be a way to reconcile both more clearly so that it's more obvious that the older story isn't retconned away. I'll give it some thought. I hate negation in the first place.

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magus_69, 2009-08-01 08:24 am UTC

janegray
2009-07-30 02:28 pm UTC (link)

Because I think that's a pretty powerful message to lose for mere astrology.

I don't think it's mere astrology. Diana was made by the Gods, who traditionally dwell in the sky, so I do think it's very fitting for her to "wear the sky".

Honoring a fallen hero is a powerful message, but it's very common in the DCU; plus, it adds awkward baggage (ok, so when Diana Trevor died to help the Amazons, you started wearing her flag to honor her. Are you going to start wearing the symbols of all the heroes who died to save the world and thus indirectly died to same Themiscyra?). Whereas being literally god-made is unique and baggage-free, so I'd much rather her costume focus on that.

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magus_69
2009-07-30 07:45 am UTC (link)

The original solicitation proudly proclaimed, "Diana wears her WORST OUTFIT EVER!" but it got cut. :)

That makes sense. Solicits aren't allowed to have any 100% unvarnished truths. I think it's a law or something. *nods*

Glad people are enjoying Dinah. My thinking is that she's overdoing the girl talk a little bit intentionally, because her friend is a bit down and dour.

That makes sense. Was it supposed to make Diana laugh as hard as we did?

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	gailsimone 2009-07-30 01:27 pm UTC (link)
	HA! I don't know, but I love Dinah and Diana together. I just think they make a wonderful team, like Superman and Batman. I'm still hoping to get to a BIRDS OF PARADISE graphic novel when the schedule allows. I still think Black Canary is the number two superheroine in comics. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	bluefall 2009-07-30 02:44 pm UTC (link)
	Solicits aren't allowed to have any 100% unvarnished truths. Nah, it's hokey, but still better than the strappy black thing. ~~And the bathing suit.~~ (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	gailsimone 2009-07-30 02:59 pm UTC (link)
	hahaha! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kingrockwell 2009-07-30 03:32 pm UTC (link)
	Pteryges. That's all I'm gonna say. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	innerbrat 2009-08-05 12:53 pm UTC (link)
	Apropos of absolutely nothing, and I'm only asking because you're here, even if I'm nearly a week late to the party - - in an issue where costumes are so important, why is it that Dinah is wearing her mother's, and not her own, in the first scene? (Reply to this) (Parent)

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