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Badficwriter ([info]ashtoreth) wrote in [info]scans_daily,
@ 2009-07-19 22:06:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:char: firestorm/ronnie raymond, char: killer frost/crystal frost, creator: gerry conway, creator: pat broderick, creator: rafael kayanan, publisher: dc comics

Firestorm Villain: Killer Frost
Or: Gerry Conway and his Gender War issues!

The early Gerry Conway had some pretty good stuff. Since she's coming back as a Black Lantern, here's a look at the original Killer Frost. (Roughly 16 pages, poor dial-upper..)



3 scans from Firestorm vol. 1, issue 4 (Gerry Conway writes, Pat Broderick and Rodin Rodriguez on art)

Killer Frost has taken over New York (where only Firestorm and Red Tornado hung out) by breaking water mains everywhere and then freezing it all. She demands Firestorm bow to her or she'll start killing hostages.

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Curt Noland is the DC counterpart to Burt Reynolds, of course.

After being defeated, she is frozen in jail to prevent her from using her powers. Outside, a guard is watching birds fly around wires. Inside, the warden is visiting. (7 scans from Firestorm 20, Gerry Conway writes, art by Rodin Rodriguez and Rafael Kayanan)

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And who is that one man you ask? Why it's Martin Stein, the passive half of the composite hero Firestorm. Here is Frost while stalking him.

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The offhand, bloodless humor is somehow more evil than all the cackling of modern villainy.

Because Stein is a superhero, he escapes, making her think he's dead.

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7 scans from Firestorm 21, same creative team. Here we meet Louise Lincoln! Who will go on to become Killer Frost II.

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One of the guards manages to escape, while his comrades beg for help. Frost watches impassively. The remaining guards drop their weapons, saying that that counted for something, right?

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She simply walks up the freeway, freezing as she goes 'with the air of a pedestrian at a crosswalk'. As she decays, she looks older. Assorted pages from their fight:

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(Post a new comment)


[info]jlroberson
2009-07-20 02:59 am UTC (link)
Interesting nobody ever comments that Ronnie Raymond is where Conway's Peter Parker dialogue went. But then, Firestorm himself is an inversion of Spidey. For instance, he's a high school jock who's victimized constantly by an intellectual hipster nerd.

I like him around this time. Though years of grimdark have perhaps made it seem tame, there was a bit in the early 80s, until that awful League he created(Vibe and all), that Conway's stuff had a nice, dramatic edge of danger to it. Like the SSOV story with Killer Frost where the League and JSA are taken down brutally.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]btravage.livejournal.com
2009-07-20 04:00 am UTC (link)
Professor Stein is a hipster?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]aaron_bourque
2009-07-20 04:41 am UTC (link)
No, Ronnie was intellectually bullied by a kid at school. IIRC, it's what made him join a nuclear protest--the one that got him turned into Firestorm.

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; that or trying to impress a girl.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-07-20 04:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bariman1987, 2009-07-20 06:38 am UTC

[info]icon_uk
2009-07-20 06:59 am UTC (link)
IIRC It was Cliff Carmichael, who ended up becoming the second, now never seen, Thinker in Suicide Squad.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kusonaga, 2009-07-20 10:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-07-20 10:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kusonaga, 2009-07-20 10:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]daningram, 2009-07-20 11:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-07-20 05:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]daningram, 2009-07-20 05:47 pm UTC

[info]box_in_the_box
2009-07-20 04:36 am UTC (link)
In addition to the ways in which it permanently altered genre tropes, I have this theory that the other big reason that people remember "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" is because a lot of the REST of Conway's Spider-Man run was ... well, not very good. With a lot of his stuff, there seem to be these flashes of genuinely good inspiration, mixed in with a whole lot of stuff that ranges from mediocre to WHAT THE FUCK. I mean, really, what does it take, to manage to create what's come to be almost universally regarded as the WORST Justice League ever? That's like, I don't know, creating Voyager or Enterprise.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]aaron_bourque
2009-07-20 04:42 am UTC (link)
I mean, really, what does it take, to manage to create what's come to be almost universally regarded as the WORST Justice League ever?

Pressure to follow in X-Men's footsteps.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-07-20 04:55 am UTC

[info]fredneil.livejournal.com
2009-07-20 07:10 am UTC (link)
One thing about him and Spider-Man, he's have great moments and balance them out with awful moments. "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" was great, but up to that point, he gave Gwen her worst moments as a character. Her one panel in the issue before has her saying "You've got to come back Peter. It's Harry. He's...backflashing." Either Conway really didn't know how to say "He's having a flashback" or "he's relapsing," or he was deliberately trying to make Gwen look stupid. He wasn't the last Spider-Man writer to have contempt for at least one of the characters he was writing about, but he was the first.

Possibly the best thing to come out of those two issues was how they gave Mary Jane some depth and expanded her character, then he ruined it a decade or so later by having Mary Jane always know that Peter Parker was Spider-Man. At least he's not the one who brought Norman Osborne back from the dead.

And he did write the Superman/Spider-Man team up, which had a few nice moments, but was great just because it was Superman. And Spider-Man. Together. In 1976.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-07-20 07:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fredneil.livejournal.com, 2009-07-20 07:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-07-20 07:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fredneil.livejournal.com, 2009-07-20 07:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]philippos42, 2009-07-21 12:21 am UTC

[info]aaron_bourque
2009-07-20 04:44 am UTC (link)
Hey hey hey hey hey hey hey!

Vibe, riddled with 80s cliches he may be, is awesome.

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; Oh, what I wouldn't give to have someone revive him, return him, and spin a "Booster Gold" level book out of him. Only, instead of time travel, he journeys through the Multiverse. Think about it: his power was vibration. How did Barry Allen first travel from Earth-1 to Earth-2? BY VIBRATING.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]ashtoreth
2009-07-20 05:59 pm UTC (link)
The Detroit League had a lot of potential. I was in love with emo Steel and Vixen came off like a female Wolverine. It could've gone much like New Avengers had, under a different writer.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aaron_bourque, 2009-07-20 06:20 pm UTC

[info]thokstar
2009-07-20 03:51 am UTC (link)
Ah Killer Frost, aka the one Firestorm villain who isn't ridiculously overmatched by Firestorm.

Are you planning to do retrospectives from the other Firestorm Black Lantern rogues?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ashtoreth
2009-07-20 06:04 pm UTC (link)
A couple of them. It seems wrong for zombies to come back when people don't know what they're angry about, right?

The Hyena, definitely. Maybe on Lady Enforcer, but I don't have anything but the origin of Black Bison, which doesn't seem of huge interest. Thinking of including more just cuz on Multiplex and Typhoon, who both have great visuals.

Unless someone else gets to them first, of course.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]fredneil.livejournal.com
2009-07-20 04:20 am UTC (link)
What, the man who brought fridging female characters into comic books has issues with women? Nahhhh.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]aaron_bourque
2009-07-20 04:57 am UTC (link)
You do realize that Gwen Stacy was not the first female victim in a male-dominated story, comics or otherwise, yes?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]box_in_the_box
2009-07-20 05:24 am UTC (link)
Determining Gwen Stacy's exact influence on superhero comics is actually made more difficult by the fact that superhero comics basically whitewashed the shit out of their harsher Golden Age excesses in the Silver Age, since Batman originally carried a gun, and Superman originally fought battles in ways that would make the Authority seem subtle and restrained.

It becomes much simpler if you regard "everything from the Silver Age" forward as basically being its own THING, since in many ways, those Golden Age superhero comics were still outgrowing their pulp novel roots. Once you do THAT, then Gwen Stacy's death actually has a much more strikingly clear influence - not only is she the first "fridged female," but her death is also arguably the birth of the whole "grim and gritty" era of superhero comics, well before Moore or Miller, because Gwen Stacy's death - even if you include the Golden Age - represents the first real, clear, conscious injection of FATALISM into the genre.

At the time, this was revolutionary - hell, even a couple of decades later, it was still revolutionary - because the entire point of the genre, up until that point, had been that Heroes Ultimately Win (even Peter Parker's mixed fortunes were meant to be seen as improving over the long run, albeit slowly and painfully), but once Gwen Stacy's neck went SNAP!, it was the first time that, in a big and important way, we were shown that the hero was fucked, no matter what he did.

And here we are now, roughly FOUR decades later, and things have reversed themselves so completely that it's now all-too-rare to find a superhero comic that DOESN'T send a message of We're Fucked No Matter What. Which makes it weird that Joe Quesada wanted to retcon away Gwen Stacy's death, because in every other way, he and Dan DiDio have turned Marvel and DC so dark that the goddamn Watchmen seems uplifting and hopeful by comparison.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]fredneil.livejournal.com
2009-07-20 07:15 am UTC (link)
I said "brought fridging into comic books," so otherwise is irrelevant. I can't think of any major female characters who were killed so the hero could get all angsty off hand in comics before Gwen Stacy offhand. Though there was Steve Trevor.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kingrockwell, 2009-07-20 10:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fredneil.livejournal.com, 2009-07-20 10:42 pm UTC

[info]ashtoreth
2009-07-20 06:06 pm UTC (link)
I knew Conway was behind the irritating girls versus boys theme in Daredevil/Black Widow, but I'd forgotten he killed Gwen Stacy. Interesting to look at the whole.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]box_in_the_box
2009-07-20 04:37 am UTC (link)
... And did I read that right, or did Killer Frost's dialogue actually establish, on-panel, that she's a virgin?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-07-20 04:51 am UTC (link)
Sure looks that way. I was definitely waiting for Stein to have to give her a good deep dicking and that would fix her issues and save the day.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]box_in_the_box
2009-07-20 04:54 am UTC (link)
ALL SHE REALLY NEEDS IS A GOOD STIFF ONE AMIRITE???

... Oh God, I think I made myself throw up in my own mouth a little.

Seriously, can we, as a genre, just declare a moratorium on female villains whose entire motivation revolves around I NEEDS ME SOME COCK, regardless of whether it's expressed as The Virgin Who Becomes A Vamp, or else as The Beauty Who Becomes A Disfigured Beast?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-07-20 05:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-07-20 05:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-07-20 05:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seriousfic, 2009-07-20 06:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fredneil.livejournal.com, 2009-07-20 07:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-07-20 07:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]red_cyclone, 2009-07-20 05:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-07-20 05:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-07-20 11:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]freeman333, 2009-07-21 05:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashtoreth, 2009-07-20 06:17 pm UTC

[info]icon_uk
2009-07-20 07:06 am UTC (link)
Aside from a nifty look (Honestly, it's like she's a villain who chose her costume because she listed to "I Enjoy Being a Girl" one time too many), I loved that Killer Frost was actually a proper heat-sink. She doesn't generate cold (which is impossible) she absorbs heat, and Firestorm usually isn't he a threat to her, he's a food source.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ashtoreth
2009-07-20 06:18 pm UTC (link)
Haven't heard the song in awhile, but she seems to have gone for a princess outfit. She wouldn't look out of place as the Snow Queen in Fables.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]comicoz
2009-07-20 06:45 pm UTC (link)
This was one of the first, if not the first, superhero-type comic book I purchased for myself. I had my allowance for mowing the lawn (50 cents or something), was spinning the comic rack at the 7-11 by my grandmother's house, pondering if I should buy the Richie Rich comic and saw this. I remember being entranced by Killer Frost's outfit.

I've frequently wondered if my grandmother kept all my comics I used to have there. Some of them would be worth hundreds if not more by now.

(Reply to this)


[info]psychop_rex
2009-07-21 04:49 am UTC (link)
I really like the original version(s) of Killer Frost. She had an interesting look, one of the more plausible explanations for just how ice-based powers work, and a scarily *ahem* cold-blooded attitude towards things. And nowadays, she wears a belly shirt and jeans, and is basically just another cold-based villain who makes with the zappy-zappy freeze rays. Feh.
Also, these scans make her scenes in Crisis where she's been brain-jiggled into being madly in love with Firestorm rather amusing.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ashtoreth
2009-07-21 05:15 am UTC (link)
Oh yes. One of the interesting things about her to me, is that she had a rather 1950's femininity, old-fashioned even then, but twisted and dialed to psycho. Except that she's a scientist, and pretty competent at everything. The worst mistake people could make is underestimating her.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]psychop_rex
2009-07-21 07:43 am UTC (link)
Exactly - she's like some maniac's literal translation of the term 'frigid bitch', or 'ice queen'. When she gives you the cold shoulder, she means it literally - she's almost anti-feminist in that regard (although I'm sure she'd regard herself as VERY feminist).

(Reply to this) (Parent)



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