Tweak

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Tweak says, "I do it all for you, Mulder!"

schmevil (schmevil) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-03-08 17:24:00

Entry tags:

admin: faq, admin: mod post

Posting limits clarification
Until we're finished rewriting the rules to be as TOS-proof as possible, the current posting limit is 1/3 of a work. That means no complete stories. In regards to anthologies, graphic novels, manga and pamphlets with backup stories, do not exceed 1/3 of the total page count. You can't get around the 1/3 limit by posting bits and pieces of various stories, and likewise, you cannot post more than 1/3 of a story, by arguing that complete, it is less than 1/3 of the total page count of the book in which it is published.

(Post a new comment)

	cainofdreaming 2009-03-08 05:16 pm UTC (link)
	What about self-contained one page stories, like Mini Marvels and such? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	schmevil 2009-03-08 05:21 pm UTC (link)
	Totally fine. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	unknownscribler 2009-03-08 05:20 pm UTC (link)
	Applying that limit to individual stories contained within a far larger work is dangerously close to unworkable. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	schmevil 2009-03-08 05:25 pm UTC (link)
	In what way? I'd like your input. We'll be flexible about posting an overview of an arc, that's made up of many short stories (a little more here, a little less here). (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

foxhack, 2009-03-08 05:33 pm UTC

schmevil, 2009-03-08 05:38 pm UTC

volksjager, 2009-03-08 05:54 pm UTC

mysteryfan, 2009-03-08 06:15 pm UTC

schmevil, 2009-03-08 06:19 pm UTC

mysteryfan, 2009-03-08 06:21 pm UTC

foxhack, 2009-03-08 06:18 pm UTC

foxhack, 2009-03-08 06:23 pm UTC

timemonkey, 2009-03-08 08:34 pm UTC

foxhack, 2009-03-08 08:41 pm UTC

timemonkey, 2009-03-08 08:42 pm UTC

schmevil, 2009-03-08 08:44 pm UTC

foxhack, 2009-03-08 08:52 pm UTC

schmevil, 2009-03-08 09:01 pm UTC

ceru, 2009-03-09 12:50 pm UTC

schmevil, 2009-03-09 01:24 pm UTC

kingrockwell, 2009-03-08 05:50 pm UTC

ashez2ashes, 2009-03-08 05:54 pm UTC

unknownscribler, 2009-03-08 06:23 pm UTC

jlbarnett, 2009-03-08 08:09 pm UTC

bluefall
2009-03-08 05:27 pm UTC (link)

Point of further clarification:

You can't get around the 1/3 limit by posting bits and pieces of various stories

This means: Given a 48-page Christmas special with 4 different stories in it, you can't post more than sixteen pages, even if you don't post more than four pages of each of the stories? That seems like a redundant rule; no more than 1/3 of any given story within an anthology, added up, cannot mathematically exceed 1/3 of the total (in our example, you only have four stories and can only post four pages of each, so you're not going to exceed sixteen anyway), so do you mean something else that I'm not reading correctly here?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	schmevil 2009-03-08 05:36 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, that wasn't clear. I was just trying to say that you can't massage the rule to somehow evade the 1/3 limit. et you. You can't post half a story here, a full story there and argue that it's below the 1/3 overall limit. I mean, of course there's flexibility when it comes to our moderation, but. g (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

bluefall, 2009-03-08 05:55 pm UTC

schmevil, 2009-03-08 06:07 pm UTC

bluefall, 2009-03-08 06:25 pm UTC

barnesarama, 2009-03-08 06:19 pm UTC

rabican, 2009-03-08 09:14 pm UTC

barnesarama, 2009-03-09 02:26 am UTC

rabican, 2009-03-09 02:57 pm UTC

newnumber6, 2009-03-09 09:04 am UTC

bluefall, 2009-03-09 10:35 am UTC

unknownscribler, 2009-03-09 10:56 am UTC

rabican, 2009-03-09 03:17 pm UTC

newnumber6, 2009-03-09 03:57 pm UTC

jlbarnett, 2009-03-08 08:54 pm UTC

	bluefall 2009-03-08 05:39 pm UTC (link)
	Also, if a storyarc has been collected into trade (I would read "graphic novel" here to include that), is it a single work, no more than 1/3 of which can be posted, or is it an anthology of 6 to 8 individual stories (as per the original monthly publish pattern), none of which can be posted in more than 1/3 quantity? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kingrockwell, 2009-03-08 05:52 pm UTC

unknownscribler, 2009-03-08 06:31 pm UTC

	angelophile 2009-03-08 06:24 pm UTC (link)
	Empowered's the tough one. Published as complete volumes, but broken down into stories, some only a few pages long. By the rules, posting any complete story Empowered would be a no no, right, even if it's only four or five pages and a small section of the complete volume? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	foxhack 2009-03-08 06:35 pm UTC (link)
	That's pretty much right. Which is why you probably realize why a lot of us don't like this new rule. -_-;; (Reply to this) (Parent)

	schmevil 2009-03-08 06:39 pm UTC (link)
	But if it's published only as a tpb, and those are 'chapters' then they might not be considered individual works. I don't read Empowered, tell me more about it so I can come up with an intelligent response? ;) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

angelophile, 2009-03-08 07:09 pm UTC

angelophile, 2009-03-08 07:11 pm UTC

schmevil, 2009-03-08 07:52 pm UTC

angelophile, 2009-03-08 07:59 pm UTC

thandrak, 2009-03-08 07:10 pm UTC

dr_hermes
2009-03-08 07:34 pm UTC (link)

It's been my understanding of "fair use" from other boards that the emphasis is more on analysis, discussion and review than on posting as much of a creative work as you can. Usually, when you see articles in books and magazines, they're accompanied by a few panels or a page or two to help make a point.

Maybe it would make this community seem more legitimate if there was more commentary with each initial post, to give an appearance of discussion rather than just appropriating?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	schmevil 2009-03-08 07:40 pm UTC (link)
	We did emphasize in the updated rules that there should be some kind of commentary accompanying the scans. Context Is For The Weak posts excepted. I'm not sure how to mod for that, other than requiring a certain number of sentences. Thoughts? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

foxhack, 2009-03-08 07:49 pm UTC

schmevil, 2009-03-08 07:50 pm UTC

dr_hermes, 2009-03-08 08:01 pm UTC

ceru
2009-03-09 01:07 pm UTC (link)

Fair use is a combination of factors: percentage of material reproduced with regards to the whole, and intent--is the reproduction done in the context of something educational, scholarly, satirical, artistic?--and, should the reproduction end up in court, what does the judge think?

It's awfully vague. Communications scholar Tarleton Gillespie says that the judicial unwillingness to actually enumerate what uses of copyrighted material qualify as fair use seems to come out of a desire to leave the fair use defense open for further interpretation. You leave the definition open, and if someone comes up with some interesting new use for sampling copyrighted material and then gets sued or slapped with a C&D, but the judge thinks it's a valid use, the judge can accept it as fair use, even if no one else has done it before. Judges can also say, no, such-and-such is not fair use. It makes it a bit of a crapshoot, and I generally loathe imprecision in legal matters, but under the extreme restrictions of modern copyright, the vagueness of fair use is the last, best defense against it.

All that said, I find it extremely unlikely that very much what ends up in scans_daily posts could be successfully defended as fair use against an actual challenge. A few things might pass muster as satirical and/or artistic. None of it would qualify as educational; I don't think I've yet seen any discussion that would really impress a judge as having critical/scholarly merit.

Basically, the law is not on our side, and no pie-in-the-sky interpretation of fair use is going to change that, no matter how much we may feel we're acting in good faith.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	gargoylekitty 2009-03-08 07:40 pm UTC (link)
	Just a quick clarification as this has me a tad confused. Taking a series like Flinch which is three stories per issue(so any one would be 1/3 of an issue) would you be able to post one full story so long as the other two aren't posted or would it be 1/3 of the 1/3 of an issue story? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	schmevil 2009-03-08 07:41 pm UTC (link)
	Is it all one creative team, or multiple creative teams? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

gargoylekitty, 2009-03-08 07:43 pm UTC

schmevil, 2009-03-08 07:44 pm UTC

ratmel
2009-03-08 07:55 pm UTC (link)

I'm not expecting real answers here, just thinking aloud:

So what about preview pages published on review sites which can be up to eight pages of a regular comic? What about comics that are legally published in full and for free on such sites?

If the preview pages take us to the 1/3 limit does that mean no one else can post any more of it when it's actually published? Does that mean, if a long preview was posted the previous week, we'll have to discuss current comics around alternate scans?

How far back into the archives must a poster look to determine that they are not exceeding the 1/3 limit in a new post? How much more of a comic can be posted after that period? I presume the argument "it wasn't tagged properly so I didn't see those pages from 2 months ago" will be a poor legal position to take and will certainly not help us avoid a takedown notice - so how much effort most a poster put into searching the archives for other scans before posting their own? What if the older post is edited to remove some of the scans and "make some room" for new ones? [yes, that last one sounds dodgy to me too]

If it is decided that older comics can have more pages posted that leaves a lot of room for interpretation: how old, how much more? Are we going to end up with some sort of chart: time vs. % of pages? Will this actually leave s_d open to further legal challenges by apparently suggesting an entirely fictional copyright term for comics? Normally a work cannot be published in any substantive form without the rights-holder's permission until 50-95 years after the death of the principal creators. Saying that a complete comic can be posted 50 years after it is published could well be technically (and legally) false (no matter how ridiculous we find the idea).

Could we get into trouble for posting a single page from a new comic that shows a significant revelation, one could be described as "the heart" of the work? That is, could posting the climax of an arc alone be argued as harming the market for that work by giving away the ending (something else that copyright technically protects)? [actually this one is kinda scary]

How do we stand on posts linking to other sites (or other journals) where a complete story is posted?

(Reply to this)

	ratmel 2009-03-08 08:02 pm UTC (link)
	Just thought of this: is there any millage in putting a big notice at the top of the info page that offers uncontested takedowns for any single post that is considered infringing? It could encourage rights-holders to come to the mods before going to the IJ staff who might just delete the whole comm without blinking. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	schmevil 2009-03-08 08:04 pm UTC (link)
	Good idea! We changed the rules to include creator rights, but having them so upfront might be helpful. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ashez2ashes 2009-03-08 08:51 pm UTC (link)
	Ok, now I'm way more confused than ever. I want to post some of a few manga volumes I own. Some are broken into chapters, but MANY are not. Is it 1/3 of the whole book, or 1/3 of a chapter within the book? Gah, so confused. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	schmevil 2009-03-08 08:52 pm UTC (link)
	It depends. Were they originally serialized? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

ashez2ashes, 2009-03-08 08:57 pm UTC

ashez2ashes, 2009-03-08 09:03 pm UTC

	nonners 2009-03-08 08:58 pm UTC (link)
	This is probably a fail!question - but by story, do you mean self contained stories within issues, or story-lines that may go over several issues? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	rabican 2009-03-09 07:27 pm UTC (link)
	Self-contained stories. Stories over several issues are contained by issue limits instead. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2009-03-08 11:24 pm UTC (link)
	Does it matter how old they are or if they are public domain characters? I mean in regards to Golden Age or Silver Age stories and characters. (Reply to this)

	geoffsebesta 2009-03-09 12:55 am UTC (link)
	I just hate that our dialogue is constrained by such artificial limits. I want to talk about comics, and that's hard to do if you can't see the comics. Screw American copyright law; full speed ahead! ...someday. (Reply to this) (Thread)

foxhack, 2009-03-09 02:45 pm UTC

geoffsebesta, 2009-03-10 12:24 pm UTC

	WEBCOMICS foxhack 2009-03-13 03:02 am UTC (link)
	Can we post full webcomic arcs (or a lot of strips) if we get the OK from the writer / author team? I just realized there's like six or seven strips I want to feature here, and they're basically free for the taking but I don't want to get yelled at more than usual! (Reply to this)