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Tweak says, "I bought it on a blanket!!!!"

Doop (xdoop) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-06-07 22:50:00

Entry tags:

char: mystique/raven darkholme, char: rogue/anna marie, creator: chris claremont, creator: john romita jr., group: x-men, publisher: marvel comics, series: one perfect moment week, title: uncanny x-men

One Perfect Moment: Mystique and Rogue

This is from Uncanny X-Men #178. It's by Chris Claremont and John Romita, Jr.

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	freezer818 2009-06-08 02:36 am UTC (link)
	But she was following Destiny's instructions. So it's all okay. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-06-08 11:26 am UTC (link)
	Seeing as how Mystique saved Rogue's life after she was infected with the Strain 88 virus and was being driven insane by all the minds she had absorbed from the Hecatomb, yeah I'd say it was. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	moneyless_jew 2009-06-08 12:19 pm UTC (link)
	And as we know, Rogue was delighted with how Mystique achieved that goal. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-06-08 12:25 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, Rogue is an ungrateful brat. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	moneyless_jew 2009-06-08 12:27 pm UTC (link)
	Where exactly is the cutoff between "ungrateful brat" and "psychotic terrorist with a narcissistic maternal/control fetish?" The second gut shot to the belly? The twentieth bombing? Banshee's throat? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-06-08 12:41 pm UTC (link)
	Trying to kill your mother after she just saved your life? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	moneyless_jew 2009-06-08 12:43 pm UTC (link)
	By attempting to kill a baby? And countless tens or hundreds of other people over the last couple of years? Who does that? Who's gonna say, "oh my bad, I know you just killed this baby and all these other people, but it was all for me, so no probs. We're square, just try not to kill another hundred people." (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

xdoop
2009-06-08 01:13 pm UTC (link)

Mystique knew placing the baby on Rogue would cure her. There was a chance it would kill the baby, but it wasn't like that was her goal. And in the end, Mystique ended up saving Rogue's life and the baby was just fine. Would it have been better if she just sat on her hands and let Rogue die a horrible death?

And while Mystique's a murderer, when has she killed "countless tens or hundreds of other people"?

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moneyless_jew
2009-06-08 01:16 pm UTC (link)

I don't have a running tally; I've lost count of Mystique's numerous assassinations, terrorist attacks and bombings, you name it. I'm rounding off.

Mystique only wants what she wants and she is prepared to kill anyone and do anything to get it. Rogue hates her for it, and she should. Moira was a friend. Mystique's ends never justify her vicious, psychotic means. That's part of what makes her such a fascinating character, yes, but I never forget that she is a stone killer.

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	xdoop 2009-06-08 01:33 pm UTC (link)
	Rogue's only had a problem with Mystique recently; do you think she was unaware of the fact that Mystique was a terrorist when they were close? And how much of Mystique have you read? Have you read any of her appearances in Claremont's original run? It seems like you're basing her entire character on nothing but the "Dream's End" storyline. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

moneyless_jew
2009-06-08 01:34 pm UTC (link)

I've read all her old stories. I grew up on them. But you know what, all those pretty scenes were an awfully long time ago. Just like with Magneto, Mystique can't fall back on the old Claremont speechifying to prop her character up. They've both done a lot of dark, horrible shit since then, some of it badly-written, some of it intelligent and well-done. The point is, the Mystique of that era is not the Mystique of 2009, who has killed a lot of people and been willing to sacrifice a lot of lives for selfish personal goals (not just Rogue's life) since then.

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xdoop
2009-06-08 01:46 pm UTC (link)

the Mystique of 2009

Mystique has actually been portrayed better recently, in her ongoing series and in Mike Carey's run. It's not like she's acting the same way she did back in "Dream's End" anymore.

They've both done a lot of dark, horrible shit since then, some of it badly-written, some of it intelligent and well-done.

Do you have any examples of the latter?

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moneyless_jew
2009-06-08 01:55 pm UTC (link)

It's not just "Dream's End," though it's worth noting that during that storyline she also schemed to (yet again) try to kill the drastically-changed Senator Kelly, attempted to retrofit the Legacy Virus to commit genocide and murder billions, and once again, tried to kill Rogue years before Strain 88. Mystique slit Banshee's throat. She reformed the Marauders to kill the X-Men and anyone, including small children, who stood in the way of Rogue surviving Strain 88 - a rationale I never totally bought which they seemed to pull out of their ass at the last minute to give her some legroom for the future.

I don't believe Carey's X-run or even necessarily her portrayal in Dream's End were that bad, but what they did for her character was take it to a deeper, darker place where her reasons can no longer be justified. "I love Rogue" is not an excuse for the things she's done, IMO. She does these things because she is driven by perverted ideology, and if Rogue doesn't get with the program she'll just stab or shoot her again, and then make up for it later. She's the worst kind of abusive parent.

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xdoop
2009-06-08 03:23 pm UTC (link)

a rationale I never totally bought which they seemed to pull out of their ass at the last minute to give her some legroom for the future.

You mean, revealing Mystique's goal was really to save Rogue? I think it was planned all along. In an interview when #200 came out, Carey said "What makes *less* sense, on the surface, is how Mystique behaves towards Rogue in this issue. There is, or there seems to be, a huge and insane contradiction. Again, I'd just say wait and see and all will eventually unfold." Plus, there were hints in as early as #203 and #204 what her true goal was.

And given what Mike Carey's said on Mystique and her relationship with Rogue in other interviews (including "I also think that her love for Rogue – which is real, despite all the things she’s done that seems to contradict it – gives her a possibility for redemption"), it'd wouldn't make any sense at all if his original storyline was just having Mystique betray the X-Men and shoot Rogue.

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	moneyless_jew 2009-06-08 12:18 pm UTC (link)
	I'm sure that's EXACTLY what Destiny said to do. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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