InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "I know. You know his name!"

tsuki_the_geek (tsuki_the_geek) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-04-08 00:25:00

Entry tags:

char: batman/bruce wayne, char: robin/red hood/jason todd, publisher: dc comics, title: batman

The History of Jason Todd (Part 4) -- Oh the Times They Are A'Changin!

Here is where all that signature Jason violence comes into play. While many of us seem to agree that modern depictions of Jason make him harsher than the 80s, there IS precident for the "OMG, JASON TODD IS CRAZY DANGEROUS!" theme. Here are the top violent/controversial Jason moments...

Let's start backwards again. This is a flashback from Winick's Under the Hood (Batman #645)--

Now, one would THINK that you would KNOW that a kid who "graduated from the streets of Crime Alley," tried to steal your wheels, and hit you in the stomach with a tire iron had a "mean streak." Just a thought...

So, yes, interesting scene but is it too "extreme" for the way the character was depicted in the 80s?

Certainly the way Batman reacts is seemingly different. Here he seems to at least scold Jason for his violence (or at least the practical problems w/ it). But in Batman #426?

Still, taking down criminals hard isn't unusual for anyone in the Bat-family... potential pushing someone off of a roof though? Here's the infamous "Did he or didn't he?" Jason Todd story:

Can I just say that the last panel there actually gives me the creeps? I have to say that one thing that comics in both decades (1980s/2000s) do well is show that Jason was freakin' scary at times-- pixie boots and blouse or not.

So, the reason that Batman & Robin were after Filipe is that he attacked his girlfriend. Robin makes it clear that he has a problem with guys beating up women (maybe something to do with his sick mother and his criminal father?). However, this guy is the son of a diplomat, so he doesn't stay in jail long at ALL and the girlfriend is soon found dead. Robin blames Filipe (even though there's no proof, of course) and takes off...

(Wow Jason's pose looks stupid in that last panel-- who let that get past sketch and into ink?)

I think the main "problem" with Winick's flashback (which I do love despite...) is that it seems to come down pretty decisively on the side that Robin DID kill Filipe, or at least had the state of mind to. Sure, if nothing else, he CERTAINLY didn't save him-- but, as Christopher Nolan has stressed to us, that's not the same thing. What do you all think?

(Post a new comment)

bluefall
2009-04-08 03:34 am UTC (link)

I think that this

as Christopher Nolan has stressed to us, that's not the same thing

is going to get you some arguments. ^.^

But as for your actual question, the balcony scene only is ambiguous if it's clear Jason had the state of mind to do something like that. That bent toward the Punisher state of mind seems totally consistent to me in both takes.

Which does provoke a musing or two. Had Jason survived, would Bruce have been able to dial him back the way Babs did for Helena?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-04-08 04:37 am UTC (link)
	If Jason had survived, I think we'd have seen a very different Robin at the end of his (probably long) recovery. One who used his convalescence to learn more about the Batcomputers and the value of research, who was more cautious and controlled in his actions. In fact a lot closer to the sort of Robin Tim started out as being. (Reply to this) (Parent)

tsuki_the_geek
2009-04-08 10:55 am UTC (link)

...going to get you some arguments

I'm not sure I buy it myself, but it seems used for "borderline, OMG super-dark" heroes a lot.

Personally, I agree with you that Jason is consistent in both, BUT I have always felt that Jason made a clear decision on that balcony and probably did push (or kick) him. In the conversation on the original s_d, I was in the minority though, which actually has made more intrigued and semi-critical of some of the later Jason stories.

And as for the "had Jason survived" question, I think so and I think Dini's Countdown (excuse me *gag*) answers that for us a bit. In one of the few alternate universes where Jason DOES survive, he becomes super commited to the cause and eventually becomes the next Batman. So survey says, YES he doesn't have to go off the deep-end! Would be interesting to have an entire AU comic to see how that transformation happened... except that no one likes Jason or AUs that much. ;)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

sistermagpie
2009-04-08 11:00 am UTC (link)

It does bring a lot of interesting questions up. But also I think in stories where he recovers too much people start to get suspicious that it's not really like Batman.

Like, we saw how Batman reacted to his death. Would he have reacted so much better to his injury? Would he not have just fired him and blamed him for what happened like he so often does? Leading to Jason being more angry or more complications and something else happening? It's hard not to think it's more like the fantasy version Bruce would have had when Jason was dead: Had he only lived he would have understood the mistake he made and it would have cured his problems and I would have helped him and everything would have been the way I wanted it and easier than things are/were with Dick etc.

	tsuki_the_geek 2009-04-08 10:57 am UTC (link)
	need to post the scans of the previous story I wanted to! But apparently I never scanned it for the old s_d post... so my options were to sort through boxes of packed-away comics to find it, then scan it, then upload/post it. Er, or just use what was already on my old photobucket account. sheepish (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mysteryfan 2009-04-08 10:09 am UTC (link)
	Hey, cool post. Jason sure does snarl a lot. And I can never get over how creepy those three last 'resist' panels are. Creepy shadows, creepy Jason, creepy Batman. Gives me such a 'good cop/bad cop, uh oh, wait, where's the good cop?' vibe. Batman, what are you thinking? (Reply to this) (Thread)