What issue is hat Raven panel from ?

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TTG ...7, I think. I think that it's in the first collection at least.

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Sigh. The complete destruction of Mary Marvel as a character was one of the stupidest, most annoying parts of Final Crisis. I don't care if Grant Morrison fucks up Bats, but his shitty attitude towards Mary and Wonder Woman stunk of misogyny, not just bad writing.

At least Diana is a name character so the shit wouldn't stick, but Mary's wrecked for good -- even if someone bothers to put in the effort to fix her, some other writer will get all hot of the idea of her in bondage gear and send her evil yet again, and as this cartoon pointed out, a couple of trips like that and a supporting character is trash; they don't have the protection that the icons do.

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Form a group to prevent it from happening to her again. :) We Cass fans did that and we got what we wanted (mostly) eventually.

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There is not enough "motto" in the universe for this. leiksrsly.

Mary Marvel was my favorite superheroine because she hadn't gotten the HARDCORE DARK AND EDGY!!!!!!1 treatment yet--because she was still nice and fun and sweet.

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What I think needs to be done with characters like these is for them to go on a long hiatus. When they're constantly in the public eye, the temptation to jerk around with them for a quick thrill is just too strong for Didio and his Yes-Men to resist. Even if they're brought back to their former glories, he'll start whining about why aren't we being EDGY anymore, like when we turned Mary Marvel into an evil leather fetishist, oh say, those were good times, let's do a rerun on that - I think we should, don't you? And of course everyone says yes, because he's the boss, and we're back to square one.
If, on the other hand, such characters are carefully kept out of sight until the boss's enthusiasms have come to rest on some other poor fictional schmuck, then they can be edged back into the spotlight without being freakishly mutated yet again. (Actually, I think this should be the general policy even if a character has NOT been messed around with just yet - overexposure is very bad for a character. If someone is showing up in about fifty different books at once, then there is tremendous pressure to come up with new, interesting, innovative ideas for them - and inevitably, a good chunk of those new, interesting, innovative ideas turn out to be, well, crap that the writer came up with at the last minute because he was panicked and needed a script.)

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Butbut he was parodying shitty treatment of female characters, didn't you get it? Desaad making the absolute incorruptible symbol of youthful female innocence and purity act all perverse and stupid and evil and abusing her character for kicks was just like pervy old men in the comic book industry making innocent female characters all perverse and stupid and evil and abusing their characters for kicks, and that totally makes it okay that he went ahead and did exactly that, and then left her that way, without even a whisper of criticism or condemnation in either the narrative or the meta-narrative of the practice in general. Just like the fact that Zoom is explicitly a bad guy makes it okay when Johns fridges characters and ASSBAR is brilliant writing because Miller's supposedly doing it on purpose. Intention is the only important thing; what's actually on the page and the effect it will have on other stories is something only crazy reactionary people care about. -_-

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(as my response to this is not fit for print or even IJ, here is a bunny with a pancake some toonified cursing)

#%$@&! *^$#^!! @%$&%*$%!!!!

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