InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Impeach Bush"

Britin (_alicesprings) wrote in qaf_coffeeclub,
@ 2009-05-21 01:04:00

Annoyances.
I went stumbling around on LJ tonight, looking for fics I haven't read yet. I found a few, one horrible thing and a couple other quite well-written post-513 fics. They weren't new, but they were new to me.

The thing they all had in common was that they had an estranged B/J who reunite.

I'm talking post-513 B/J who either, quite quickly, or gradually, stop talking completely, don't see each other any more and Justin goes on to have relationships with other men but eventually B/J get back together.

So we've got a post-513 Justin who pursues relationships with other men, we've got a post-513 Brian who lets Justin go to New York and never speak to him again.

We've got another post-513 Justin who is surprised when Brian shows up years later, telling him he misses him and wants them back together. Surprised, because apparently post-513 Justin thinks Brian doesn't really miss him or love him or doesn't make grand gestures...

I'm confused. And annoyed. So annoyed I had to get out of bed at 1am and make this post because I couldn't sleep.

So, WTF is wrong with this picture? That's not right, is it? I mean, Brian already, told Justin that he loves him, propsed to him, bought him a house, told him he looked beautiful, opened up about his "feelings" (although these post-513 Brian's apparently aren't supposed to have feelings beacuse that's "not Brian Kinney"), so why is this post-513 Justin so disbelieving that Brian does actually say ILY and make a grand gesture?

Are we really supposed to think the ILY and marriage proposal was purely out of shock from the bombing? Therefore, he doesn't actually love Justin? I mean, the wedding - bad idea. They acknowledged that, they called that off, but does that therefore also mean we pretend Brian never said ILY? That Brian would never repeat that post-513?

That Brian would happily let Justin move to New York and never speak to him again? Is it really so incredulous that Brian, having already said ILY once and exhibiting all that new and outwardly loving behaviour in season 5 would do it again post-513?

Are we really to believe post-513 Justin, who finally got a verbal acknowledgement that Brian loves him - DUH, he's known it for years anyway - are we to believe he happily goes off to New York and says oh well, Brian's cut me off, it must be over so therefore I'll just start dating new people?

Oh! Also, we have a 50-year-old Brian who isn't tricking much anymore and Justin is shocked that Brian's not tricking much because "that's not Brian Kinney".

Um, I'm not saying that BJ have to be monogamous, but come on, he's FIFTY! Don't you think he'd stop tricking incessantly sooner or later?

Did I miss something, or do I need to just put up with the fic drought and stick to writers I know and trust, because this has messed with my mind!!

What's your take on post-513 Brian? Post-513 Justin? Who are they? What do they want from life? From each other? Your realistic vision of who they are.

Brian is NOT who he was in season 1 anymore, even if some of his actions post-bombing were borne of shock or whatever, it's not realistic to pretend those actions NEVER happened, right? Right? Please help me restore correct world order to my poor sad brain.

And now that I have that off my chest, I'm going to attempt sleep again.

(Post a new comment)

fun_demented
2009-05-20 11:23 am UTC (link)

Brian is NOT who he was in season 1 anymore, even if some of his actions post-bombing were borne of shock or whatever, it's not realistic to pretend those actions NEVER happened, right? Right?

BING BING BING TOTALLY RIGHT

Yea, they love each other. They both want to be together, but life is bringing Justin to New York and Brian wants Justin to live his life to the fullest. The only way I could see them not being together in the future would be if life took them further and further apart, but both parties would be sorry.

And truthfully, I don't think that would happen. These are not ordinary people. I believed Brian when he said he would say anything and be anything for Justin. And I believed Justin when he said Brian is his chance of a lifetime.

Just because they're smart and indepentant and make up the rules of their relationship as they go along, doesn't mean that they let go of things. That's how they feel and they're both very proud of that and say it outloud to others and to each other.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

_alicesprings
2009-05-20 06:31 pm UTC (link)

Yes! Thank you!

B/J are anything but ordinary. That's why we all love them, right? They've been through huge amount of life-altering shit together, and after being so close and so in love in 513 I can't see them drifting apart later. They wouldn't LET themselves. I knew this, I did, I just let my sleep-deprived brain mess with me :(

Just because they're smart and indepentant and make up the rules of their relationship as they go along, doesn't mean that they let go of things.

Exactly. They're not ordinary, they don't have a traditional relationship and that's FINE, because that works for them. I ~~and the bad!ficcers~~ just need to remember that.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	notreallyme10 2009-05-20 11:55 am UTC (link)
	I LOVE you :) Trying to find good fic in all the shit out there is enough to make a person crazy! I would answer your questions... but I think you already know what I think ;) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	_alicesprings 2009-05-20 06:04 pm UTC (link)
	Trying to find good fic in all the shit out there is enough to make a person crazy! OMG I've totally learned my lesson. It's not worth it. waits patiently for new IJ fic Thanks dear, yeah I know what you think. I knew it too but my exhausted brain just wanted to fuck with me I think. (Reply to this) (Parent)

frantic_quest
2009-05-20 12:18 pm UTC (link)

What's your take on post-513 Brian? Post-513 Justin? Who are they? What do they want from life? From each other? Your realistic vision of who they are.

My realistic take is that they will remain lovers committed to each other without needing any sort of public declaration to define their love for each other. All that matters is that they understand and accept whatever boundaries they draw up for each other whether that be monogamy or not.

Realistically however they will do whatever needs to be done to legally protect what rights they do have as domestic partners. (But no pomp or circumstance surrounding it)

I see them constantly in touch via whatever means available if they cannot physically be together, and I see them apart more in the first few years post-513 than in later years, both focused more on establishing/maintaining career/business achievements with the goal being to eventually be able to live together permanently.

I think they will both always consider the Pitts home base, but I see them eventually living full time in a major city, an arts & commerce hub, but not necessarily NYC.

Based on their past history, Brian's insecurities, and Justin's restlessness, there will be times when they will take a break from each other, but will always find their way back. I think they learned from past mistakes but there are always new misunderstandings and life is not a fairy tale (even for queers)

Kind of unromantic I know, but that's where I see them. However, I've read a lot of post-513 tales and I can still enjoy the scenarios mentioned, even if I know that's not the way I see it happening.

But on a slightly ~~shallow~~romantic note, no matter how much time passes they are always hot, always have mind-blowing sex together. And Brian still says ILY, but Justin says it more-lol!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	_alicesprings 2009-05-20 06:34 pm UTC (link)
	All that matters is that they understand and accept whatever boundaries they draw up for each other whether that be monogamy or not. Yes! Thank you, I like your vision :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

bj_dream
2009-05-22 06:55 am UTC (link)

I can't agree with you more. I have no idea why i love Brian and Justin together as much as i do. Friends have actually said to me, you just don't seem the type to read about these type of relationships. Must be the romantic in me. I loved Brian throughout the entire series. I think that he really did "LOVE" Justin from the moment he met him. He actually shared things with Justin that he "NEVER" told anyone. It always annoyed me to no end that Mikey was always able to sway Brian from being with Justin.

I beleive that Brian would have followed Justin to New York probably within the first year. Kinnetic was doing well, Babylon was reopened and he obviously had the money to open either a branch or remote operating office. It would put Brian and Justin together and it would be practical for all parties. I actually love it in the FICS when Justin loses his inspiratation to paint with Brian. It shows a side that we all know exist in his world. There was even a fic somewhere that when Justin "REGAINED" his memories back and found that his hand was no longer bothering him. While that is a little far fetched, it showed once again that Love does conquer all.

I know that somewhere in an AR Brian and Justin are together and Mikey does not exist. I thought that after season 4 when Mikey told Justin that Brian loved him that maybe they would have Mikey grow up but then we still continued to see the snotty Mikey.

Lindsy either exists and stops clinging to Brian or she is also forced out of his life. I didn't like that "SHE" found away to push them apart again. It would have took the writers less than 2 seconds to have Justin and Brian dancing together in the last scene to make the viewers happy or to atleast have Justin on the phone with Brian or meeting him at Britin. They just choose not to do it. I think that if they were going to break them up and have it be permanent it should have been somewhere in the begining of season 5.

Anyway, i am running off subject here. In my head Brian and Justin will be together no matter what, no matter the odds, etc. I actually even like the idea of them still getting married, but not telling anyone because they wouldn't want to show everyone else their relationship. Hell i wish that someone would love me half as much as Brian loves Justin. I have been married for about 17 yrs and have never once in that time even felt half the love that you can see in their eyes. Maybe it is the fact that i realized this past year that i just pushed most of who i am to the side when i got married. I was raised pretty strickly christian and pretty much pushed my bisexual nature to the side. I even realized the other day that if i was born a man, i would probably still be the same way that i am. All i can say about that is never hide who you are to please anyone. It is not worth the pressure that builds in your head or the pain that it keeps in your heart. Don't get me wrong i love my hubby, but i have spend alot of this last year thinking about "used to be's", "what if's", and "what might have been's"

If you find the perfect FICS let us know. Love Dawn

(Reply to this) (Parent)

merkuria
2009-05-20 12:30 pm UTC (link)

Generally, you're spot on. Having been too traumatised before, I stick to old fics.

What's your take on post-513 Brian? Post-513 Justin? Who are they? What do they want from life? From each other?

They are who you see at the end of 513, confident, changed (Brian), in love, and I would safely bet the most solid we have seen them. They communicate, they know what they are doing and why, I don't see them lending themselves to any dramatic stupid gestures, that's in the past IMO.

And yes, they will trick when apart, but that will be even more for "hygienic" purposes than ever before. That apart, the tricking will die down, with time when they are back together geographically.

Generally, I don't see them being idiotic idiots who would let the great thing between them wither and die now that they are both on the same page, aware and acknowledging.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	fun_demented 2009-05-20 03:46 pm UTC (link)
	Love your response. (Reply to this) (Parent)

_alicesprings
2009-05-20 06:36 pm UTC (link)

They are who you see at the end of 513, confident, changed (Brian), in love, and I would safely bet the most solid we have seen them. They communicate, they know what they are doing and why, I don't see them lending themselves to any dramatic stupid gestures, that's in the past IMO.

Yes, yes!

Generally, I don't see them being idiotic idiots who would let the great thing between them wither and die now that they are both on the same page, aware and acknowledging.

ITA! Thank you!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	brianslave68 2009-05-20 01:02 pm UTC (link)
	I'm giving a short answer because I'm not one for long analyzing type posts. I analyze enough at work, I don't need it in fandom! Anyway, my short answer is....my post 513 Brian & Justin are the way Xie writes them. :D (Reply to this) (Thread)

	xie_xie_xie 2009-05-20 03:20 pm UTC (link)
	How very odd... so are mine! ;) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	fun_demented 2009-05-20 03:48 pm UTC (link)
	Me too me too!!!!!!! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	$Christy: 119 Brian \o/$ fun_demented 2009-05-20 03:48 pm UTC (link)
	Great answer!!!!! Me too, me too!!! Jumps on your bandwagon (Reply to this) (Parent)

	_alicesprings 2009-05-20 06:07 pm UTC (link)
	Lol, thank you dear! I actually agree but it's been so long since the last Directions that I've forgotten who they are! ;) ;) ;) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	vl_redreign 2009-05-20 06:38 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, GOOD ONE!!!! rotfl (Reply to this) (Parent)

ahaw9913
2009-05-20 01:21 pm UTC (link)

What's your take on post-513 Brian? Post-513 Justin? Who are they? What do they want from life? From each other? Your realistic vision of who they are.

My take on them is this...

Brian took his chance on love, he TOLD Justin that, it's canon, it happened! He could never take that back, even if he wanted too, which I don't think he does. I think he wanted to say it many, many times before, but fear always got in the way. So he has taken that plunge, IMO, because the fear of Justin dying WITHOUT hearing those words from Brian was greater than his fear of exposure. But they are out there now, all of Brian's eggs are in one Justin-shaped basket. He knows, as well as we do that he is NEVER going to love ANYONE else. He is NEVER going to let Justin just go off somewhere and lose touch. He CAN'T! He couldn't help but stay attached when Justin was with Ethan. IT'S WHAT HE DOES!!! He has to be part of Justin's life, Justin has to be in his. Justin is his only chance.

Justin heard Brian's words, it happened, we know this, it's canon! He has worked too hard, put up with too much, to give up his prize now! He, I think, could survive if they broke up, but he doesn't WANT to, and Justin gets what he wants. He has been in a relationship with someone else, and it's canon that he thinks it was the biggest mistake of his life! He completely opened himself up to Brian in 308, when Brian could have laughed in his face and taken out his wounded pride on him. He risked everything! IT'S WHAT HE DOES!!! He would not hesitate to be back in the Pitts, in Brian's face if he started to let Justin go! He KNOWS he belongs with Brian. He will NEVER let Brian go!

Um, I'm not saying that BJ have to be monogamous, but come on, he's FIFTY! Don't you think he'd stop tricking incessantly sooner or later?

Yes, I absolutely do! Everyone settles down somewhat! Hell, even Mick Jagger has a wife and like 15 kids! It happens to all of us, including Brian Kinney. I do think they would eventually become monogamous, but that it would be a gradual process, and one that becomes more attractive, once they are living in the same home again. I think the tricking is something they both do, and both enjoy, but is more necessary to Brian for emotional reasons. And I think that once he allows those emotional needs to be met by Justin, as time will prove them to be, the tricking will not be as necessary emotionally. Since we all know Justin is more than capable of taking care of any physical needs he has, I think the tricking will fall off kinda naturally.

I say read all the fics, I do, and I love them for the angst, but I think of them like reading an AU.

Don't let them warp what you KNOW to be what really happens.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	fun_demented 2009-05-20 03:58 pm UTC (link)
	the fear of Justin dying WITHOUT hearing those words from Brian Interesting! I never thought about that before. Also: can I haz a Justin-shaped baskit 2 plz? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ahaw9913 2009-05-20 07:07 pm UTC (link)
	I have broken out my trusty reeds, and am weaving it for you right now! :D (Reply to this) (Parent)

_alicesprings
2009-05-20 06:40 pm UTC (link)

Ahhhh, I feel SO much better. Thank you!

ITA with everything you just said. Except the fic reading, I'm not letting that shit back into my brain ever again! ;)

Brian took his chance on love, he TOLD Justin that, it's canon, it happened!

Yes!

He is NEVER going to let Justin just go off somewhere and lose touch. He CAN'T! He couldn't help but stay attached when Justin was with Ethan. IT'S WHAT HE DOES!!! He has to be part of Justin's life, Justin has to be in his. Justin is his only chance.

Yes!

Justin heard Brian's words, it happened, we know this, it's canon! He has worked too hard, put up with too much, to give up his prize now! He, I think, could survive if they broke up, but he doesn't WANT to, and Justin gets what he wants.

Yes!

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ahaw9913 2009-05-20 07:48 pm UTC (link)
	Except the fic reading, I'm not letting that shit back into my brain ever again! ;) I totally understand! I've had to bleach mine a few times, it does sting a little! :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

vl_redreign
2009-05-20 01:49 pm UTC (link)

I was just talking with Fire about this. We tend to disagree on specifics, but in a nutshell, after all this time, this is what I think.

I think that if Justin was going to move on, he'd have done it at 507, when he left Brian. We knew that he still loved him, but if he wanted something or someone else, he'd have been looking. Also, I really don't think that after evreything they'd been through that they'd give it up just because of a zip code. I don't. Would Justin be tricking in New York? Hell, yeah!! the city that never sleeps?? He'd do it, then go home and wake up Brian (or catch him at Babylon, lol) to tell him all about it. Just like he did with Connor James...which one of the cutest scenes ever. Justin was all "omgsquee!" about it, and Brian was like, "Way to go!" It's what they do and who they are. Now, Brian is about 34 when we last see him. I give him about 3 more years of fucking around before he really goes, "I'm getting too old for this shit." Actually, he already knows it. Brandon taught him that. So would he begin to slow down a tad? I think so.

So, still cruising? Yes, both of them. Still together? Yes. Why? Again, they worked too hard for what they had to just give it up because of distance.

K, SUN

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	fun_demented 2009-05-20 03:53 pm UTC (link)
	Nods at you (Reply to this) (Parent)

_alicesprings
2009-05-20 06:15 pm UTC (link)

Well I actually agree with all of that. And you know we disagree on a lot of things!!

Post-507 B/J is a different ball game completely. Post-513 though, NO WAY can we pretend Brian didn't say ILY and propose and do all the stuff he did.

I totally think Justin tricks in New York, I just don't think he'd be off deliberately pursuing relationships.

And yes, Brandon taught Brian that he wasn't that guy that he was in season 1 anymore. I'm not saying he'd stop tricking completely but I think if he's 50 and steadily fucking Justin as well he's not gonna be out cruising for tricks five times a week and that it'd be ridiculous to have Justin shocked that he's not.

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vl_redreign
2009-05-20 06:43 pm UTC (link)

OMG, eye noes we disagree on stuff!!

I think that Brian would get to a point where he wouldn't trick anymore. Seriously, refraction will become an issue at some point, and Justin ain't gonna like having to wait cause Brian wasted it elsewehere. lol

In good news, he won't lose his hair. :-)

OMG, I so need an icon of Brian doing the John Travolta thing: "My hair! My hair!!"

(Reply to this) (Parent)

xie_xie_xie
2009-05-20 03:19 pm UTC (link)

It's because so many fans are taught and encouraged to hate and discount Season Five -- and even attacked if they don't. Many of the BRAG about never watching it again. So while they may include S5 storylines in their backstory, they don't understand the character development that happened in that season, and thus can't include it in their fiction.

Everything that's wrong in the very beginning of my series arose out of the fact that I'd only seen S5 a single time.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	vl_redreign 2009-05-20 03:22 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, but it's still good. Especially the Mel parts. Though I may never forgive you (or her) for letting Gus stain the white leather sofa with grape juice. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	fun_demented 2009-05-20 03:51 pm UTC (link)
	Okay. You have to do meta on what's wrong with the beginning of your series. ...But after you do the other stuff you have to do!! ;) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xie_xie_xie 2009-05-20 04:19 pm UTC (link)
	LOL, I already did! http://xie-xie-xie.insanejournal.com/173911.html (Reply to this) (Parent)

	xie_xie_xie 2009-05-20 04:26 pm UTC (link)
	Oh no wait, wrong link! This is the right one: http://xie-xie-xie.insanejournal.com/97395.html (Reply to this) (Parent)

	_alicesprings 2009-05-20 06:10 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah you're totally right. And I knew that, but my exhausted brain was messing with me. Note to self: Do not read several crappily characterised fics just before bed ever again. sucks down coffee (Reply to this) (Parent)

boldpoint
2009-05-21 05:10 am UTC (link)

In what should have been a celebration of the ground breaking show’s unique and dynamic characters, season five came across as a mishmash of opportunities lost. Brian’s surprise visit to Justin in Hollywood would have been incredible. That would have been a weekend to remember. I can picture them riding along the Pacific coast highway in a shiny red convertible. And sneaking in a quickie on the half build set of Rage’s lair on the studio lot.

I’ve got to say that I’m confused and perplexed that after Brian’s cancer ordeal, and Justin standing by him, we get the buying of Babylon, the syphilis, and the Brandon arcs. And after the “how’s this?” line Brian coldly delivers when asked about their relationship going to the next level, I don’t see how Justin could possibly stay with him.

I wish the “I love you” and the “I would give him anything” Brian would have emerged at the beginning of season five. Then we would have had an entire season of seeing how these guys would make their relationship work.

How about during the Lindsay/Mel goodbye scene, Lindsay whispering to Brian, “well Brian, you’ve always wanted to move to New York. Now you actually have a reason to.”

The series finale made me sad. After Brian’s infamous “it’s only time” line, Justin should have just smacked him, and restated his season one line, “you’re not done with me until I say so.” Or how about Justin playfully suggesting, “just because we didn’t get married doesn’t mean we have to skip the honeymoon.” Justin and Brian walking on the beach in Ibiza at sunset would have kicked the ass of the ending at Babylon.

Post 513: I don’t see Brian being happy without Justin. He knows Justin wants to prove to himself that he can make it on his own without Brian, and he is willing to let him do that. I imagine they will have many weekend rendevous in the near future, and Brian will probably end up moving to New York about a year later. Seems like they are just meant to be together. I think Justin and Gus will be the primary focus in Brian’s life from here on. I think Michael is actually the one who will gradually start to fade away.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

_alicesprings
2009-05-21 05:56 am UTC (link)

I'm sorry you don't like season 5. I really didn't much at first either, but on subsequent viewings I've grown to appreciate it a little more each time. I'm still not entirely in love with the ending but I firmly believe B/J will be together post-513, albeit in a non-traditional sense.

However, this post wasn't about what I'd have liked to see done differently in season 5. Lindsay didn't whisper that to Brian. Justin didn't say that to Brian in their final scene.

I may not love all of season 5 but one thing I believe firmly in is canon.

I believe you have to really know and respect canon, and make your peace with it. I don't think there's much point harping on about what I wish had happened. It's just upsetting. I've moved on and made my peace with it. I hope you can too.

Basically the point I was trying to make is, Brian did say ILY in season 5. He did propose, he did act romantically, and to me, post-513 fics that pretend that never happened are OOC. You can't possibly ignore the character growth that Brian (and Justin) made in season 5 in a post-513 world. It shows a lack of understanding of canon, and like I said, that's key to my enjoyment of fandom.

As for your post-513 vision, I agree! I think Brian may not be 100% happy living apart from Justin (and I imagine Justin feels the same) but they know it's for a greater purpose and that they'll live together again one day. They are totally meant to be together! Plus, Brian owns two businesses! He has plenty to keep him occupied and so does Justin.

I think we're in the minority, but I also agree that the Michael-Brian friendship will lessen over time. I believe we saw that in season 5 already - even after they made up in the later part of the season.

I think Ted became a very, very good friend to Brian over seasons 4 and 5, and while Michael and Brian will love each other like brothers for the rest of their lives, I think Michael's priorities changed and he and Brian won't be as close as they used to be.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	boldpoint 2009-05-21 06:30 am UTC (link)
	Sorry about the season five venting. I just watched the series for the first time a few months ago. I am in the process of "moving on". Totally agree about the friendship Brian is developing with Ted. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

_alicesprings
2009-05-21 06:47 am UTC (link)

I was exactly where you are now about three years ago. I HATED the ending, ranted and raved about it, was surrounded by other people who also hated it and ranted and raved about it and it was just... not a good place to be. I didn't want to hate my show. I didn't want to be upset all the time.

Thankfully, I got over myself, rewatched the season a bunch of times, read some great meta by people who DID enjoy the season and now I've made my peace with it. I understand B/J's actions that I hadn't on the first viewing.

Most of the hardcore fandom here on IJ shares my respect for canon and there's a lot of love for season 5 here too, which helps the healing process.

There's also some brilliant and beautiful post-513 fic here... I should have known better than to get sucked into what I read last night :|

(Reply to this) (Parent)

firehead30
2009-05-21 11:43 am UTC (link)

The story telling in season five is convoluted and rushed. I don't care for the ending.

I know there are others who completely rationalize the ending to fit how they want to view the show, but after watching season five four times now, I still do not see Brian and Justin in the same light the majority of the responders to this topic seem to. The ending still leaves me berift and I refuse to be sucked into rationalization for bad story telling.

As for Post 513 togetherness of Brian and Justin. I don't believe there is conclusive evidence one way or the other. Do they love each other, of course. I don't think anything could change that. Are they still together? I am agnostic here.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	outlander 2009-05-21 09:12 am UTC (link)
	OMG...I needed this. You crack me up. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	_alicesprings 2009-05-21 08:31 pm UTC (link)
	I'm glad my trauma amused you! ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

FRIENDSHIP ABOVE ALL

felonius_monk
2009-05-21 11:21 am UTC (link)

I quickly learned when I started reading QAF fanfic in Feb. 2007 that different people like different things and see things differently. Some like angst, some like romance, some like porn, some like canon, some like crack, some like AU or AR. I cherish that—democracy at its best.

In my heart and mind, I always experience the pure Friendship of The Liberty Avenue Crew. In the five years of QAF, they always fought their way through differences and came back to friendship. I can’t conceive of Justin and Brian’s FRIENDSHIP ever waning, no matter what happens to their love story. I also can’t conceive of Brian and Michael’s FRIENDSHIP ever waning, no matter how divergent their chosen paths. All of these men are FRIENDS in the trenches and they’ll grow and mature and age. No matter what, they will always be FRIENDS.

When I was still on MySpace before I joined IJ, I read a fic on LJ that portrayed Justin and Brian’s pre and post 513 experiences. Although the first few chapters were full of beautifully descriptive but somewhat formulaic porn and the punctuation could use a lot of improvement, it was the later chapters that grabbed me. In those later chapters, Brian and Justin not only didn’t nearly die from missing each other, they flourished on their own while Justin was in NYC and Brian built his empire in Pittsburgh. Brian and Michael’s friendship matured and they were closer than ever.

Friends: Total strangers who choose to form a bond. To me, that’s far far better than any ridiculously romantic notions.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: FRIENDSHIP ABOVE ALL

_alicesprings
2009-05-21 06:59 pm UTC (link)

I realise different people like different things but when you've been reading QaF fic for as long as I have and read as much awful, awful, awful fic as I have, you may perhaps stop cherishing it as much! ;)

I agree that Brian and Justin will both flourish post-513. I certainly don't think Brian will fall aprt because he misses his little woobie Justin.

My post was more about the fact I find it OOC to have post-513 fic in which it's considered OOC for Brian to express that he loves and misses Justin. I mean, it's CANON that Brian loves Justin - enough to propose. It annoys me that certain fics want to pretend that never happened because the author doesn't particularly care for season 5 and its FACTS.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

colleen2328
2009-05-21 01:56 pm UTC (link)

The "estrangement" fictions tell me more about their writers than about canon. Some authors have only seen the series on Logo, some have not seen the whole series, or not watched it closely. Many seem to love angst or need to write it out of their systems. And they don't seem to have RL experience with long-distance relationships - or no successful experience, at any rate.

I came to QAF about a year ago. I was tired of hearing how "Brothers & Sisters," whose first season I loved, was "QAF-Lite." So I decided to check out the real deal: I did a mad-dash marathon, falling hard for BJ. (They had me from their first scene.) But I bailed out at the Sam Auerbach arc. (Hated his art, hated Lindsay with him, and anyway I was spoiled by this time.) I jumped to 510, finished out the series, was pissed as hell, and went in search of the antidote. Fortunately, I found the Xie-verse and Randall's series (Silence and Tears?) This helped immensely. I then rented DVDs and finished out the series properly, and I've watched it since on Logo.

I love the scrupulous attention to canon that I've found here. I agree that there's plenty of evidence for a satisfying ending if you pay close attention. Xie's meta has convinced me that they make it work.

I also love "Pulse Point" because of the characters and their development. The other AUs I've really enjoyed depart from canon after season 2 (Brian Hennessey's "Swamp Fever" and "Burn"), or they conflate QAF canon with another (Gaedhal's "Bell, Book and Candle," which somebody here recced, Wrenlet's "Reaper Boy," and slave-o-spike's "Cracksylvania"-my word for her 'verse).

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_alicesprings
2009-05-21 07:06 pm UTC (link)

I love the scrupulous attention to canon that I've found here. I agree that there's plenty of evidence for a satisfying ending if you pay close attention. Xie's meta has convinced me that they make it work.

ITA. Like I commented to someone else above, I love the respect for canon here on IJ too.

Season 5 is not my favourite season, the ending is not my dream ending but I have made my peace with it. I now understand the characters motivations this season and I've moved on.

I can't enjoy participating in fandom if I still hate part of the show I'm in a fandom for. What's the point? Why hang around here spreading your bitterness, whether through rants or by writing badly characterised fic. And that is why I no longer deal with people who hate canon.

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girloftheburbs
2009-05-22 04:09 pm UTC (link)

IMO, post-513 is what you choose to believe happens. I like to think that the writers of the show left it up in the air so everyone could have the ending they wanted.

On that note, I can see B/J ending up together over time, whether or not they can currently keep a long-distance relationship going. Brian may try the cliffie thing again, but Justin being one of the most determined charcters on the show, he would be the one to bring them together. However, I can't see Brian putting up much of a resistance, once Justin proves that he has or is accomplishing what he needs or wants to do in his career. I've seen post-show fics which could work in many scenarios, as long as it's labeled correctly (canon, AU, etc.). I've made my peace with S5 with the help of fics and a few RPGs, so that's what works for me.

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