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Tweak says, "Yes. Yes I will marry you."

caithyra (caithyra) wrote in fanficrants,
@ 2008-08-14 12:38:00

Current mood:

angry

Sex without consent is rape...
I have this strange idea about a few requirements for a relationship to be happily-ever-after. One of them, as I ranted about a few months ago, was equality in relationships, and here's another one, specifically about sex that I've seen in too many fandoms for it to be healthy.

So I was fandom hopping like crazy these past few weeks as I got a craving for all my ships and they're pretty spread thin. I also tried a few new ships, and did some plain vanilla reading.

I also found out that apparently I missed a memo or something. Or perhaps I'm just odd, but when I read a sexual scene, be it kissing, groping or the whole act plus chocolate, I kind of dislike it if one of the participants keeps saying "No", "Stop" and just generally crying or being obviously scared and/or in pain.

Keep in mind that this isn't an agreed role-playing thing that the couple is doing, but that one of the participants actively wants the other to stop but the other one (due, many times, by being stronger) still plows ahead with the sensitivity of a bull in a china shop ("it'll stop hurting in a minute!").

If the character in question doesn't want to have sex in a public area, yet their stronger partner forces them to anyway, it's rape. No matter if they had nice, loving sex in the privacy of their bedroom.

If a character tells another character "I don't want anything to do with you." often in much stronger language, if the other one goes ahead and kisses and gropes said character, it's sexual assault/rape/not nice (depending on the laws you abide by).

A girl reacting to someone touching her clit yet still cries and tells her partner to stop is being raped/sexually assaulting, no matter how her body reacts.

Let me take an example of a situation that I read in these weeks, keep in mind that it is a really popular fic, so I wont name names or fandom:

Girl had in many words told Boy to leave her the HELL ALONE! She has repeated it ad nauseum through many, many chapters of the fic, yet he still treats her like his own object (kissing and groping her whenever he feels like it, isolating her from her friends because he's jealous when she even glances at another person). Now, suddenly, Boy claims to have followed all her wishes during this period when he has, among other things, grabbed her hair and lead her around like it was a leash (and it was painful for her) as well as kidnapping her and keeping her from everyone else in her life. All the while she has been telling him to fuck off every time she's seen him.

So, imagine my surprise when Girl agrees. And then we learn that she believes so because Boy hasn't used his mind-controlling powers, hypnotizing powers, nor the fact that he can beat her to bloody pulp on her. Apparently, because he decided not to use those things, he's been considerate and sensitive to her.

He's stalked her. Broken into her home multiple times. Sexually assaulted her.

But it's all alright! Because he didn't mind-control her!

NO! Stop! Go to jail, don't pass go, don't collect the hundred of positive reviews you got for writing this! Be drowned in my teal deer-y ranting!

And this kind of scenario plays over and over again (guy forces himself on girl, girl doesn't want him around and guy persists and suddenly girl realises that they are soulmates by realising that even though he's been using his strength against her, he hasn't gone all out which makes it okay).

Then, after being peppered by other scenarios in which one partner expressly doesn't want the advances of the other yet still is forced into it, I kind of ended up here to rant about it. I can get liking a bickering couple and hate-sex, but the bickering couple is on equal grounds and often tries to make sure that things are equal between their bickering, and hate-sex is by definition not supposed to be happy and fluffy and romantic.

I can't get over the non-consensual wave that's being written (not the one when the writer knows and is aiming for writing non-con, but rather, those who thinks it's a perfectly normal and healthy relationship), because it scares me. Are there really so many fans out there who believes that it is healthy? That all independent and strong women should be reigned in by more powerful men? That a relationship isn't about trust, respect and compromises?

You want to know the craziest part of this? These writers doesn't see this as "non-con", one even had a profile stating that they'll never write/read non-con because it's squicky.

Well, guess what?

That girl you have crying, frightened, saying "No." and "Please, stop." when the guy is obviously putting her through painful distress isn't vanilla sex, it isn't even BDSM as they have a safe word which is adhered to. It's non-con. And the guy is perfectly able to stop, so STOP going with the myth that once a guy sees a flash of skin, he can't control himself and is not responsible for his acts afterwards. STOP repeating the myth that all sex will be painful at some point and that the couple can just ride it out.

Er. I'll cut this off now, because I kind of got revved up again. But I think you see my point. ^_^;

X-posted @ LJ

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jyuukoi
2008-08-14 06:45 am UTC (link)

I'm just a random commenter, not even joined to this community but I read through this because it was interesting, I will agree completely. Rape -is- -not- -sexy- and it's sad that rape gets romanticized. I like equality and mutuality in my fics, I like consensuality, there is nothing sexier then that, of course I have this very strong feeling rooted in personal expiriences, it's why I can't stand to read fics like that. The same goes with male/male and girl/girl too.

Consent is the key word really.

Good rant, good rant!

(Reply to this)

	jyuukoi 2008-08-14 06:46 am UTC (link)
	And bickering couple BTW is one of my favorite dynamics. >.> (Reply to this)

	mllesatine 2008-08-14 08:08 am UTC (link)
	What you described here is the typical yaoi-manga (95% of it). I agree with you (and my biggest kink is non-con - the intentional kind). (Reply to this) (Thread)

mercurychaos
2008-08-14 10:21 am UTC (link)

This is why I cannot read most yaoi manga in spite of liking yaoi - because so much of it follows the storyline of "Seme forces himself on uke, uke protests but starts to like it, even if he continues saying no" etc, and then of course the uke spends a great deal of time trying to convince himself that he didn't enjoy it even though he did (and of course if you enjoy it it's not rape... blah blah blah.)

I mean I sometimes enjoy stories/manga with non-con elements in them (give me some hatesex any day of the week, mmhhmmmm, ^_^) but what the OP has described is way too common, and I agree that it's just reinforcing this myth that "the guy can't control himself" and "it's not rape if you enjoy it."

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elfwreck
2008-08-14 09:45 am UTC (link)

I like non-con... but I like the author to know she's writing non-con so she'll put in bits about the power-plays and sense of violation. A good author can have the couple overcome that and reach a romantic relationship--but it's not "oh, now she's had an orgasm so she'll love him forever." (Or in my case, "now he's had an orgasm;" I rarely read het.)

I sure as hell don't care for "she just says no because good girls always say no at first; that she doesn't try to kill him means she really likes him." And I'm also not buying, "since he didn't pulverize her for staying away from him, he was showing great restraint and she should reward him with hot sex." Bleh.

The one who said they don't write non-con? Can you point out to her what she's writing? That if the girl says "no," but really means "OMG my uncle is listening so I can't say yes here," the author needs to put that in the story, and if the girl says "I hate you; don't touch me" and he does anyway... that's non-con.

STOP repeating the myth that all sex will be painful at some point and that the couple can just ride it out.

I think it's sad that so many people believe that.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

caithyra
2008-08-14 10:30 am UTC (link)

I don't link to stories and authors since I kind of like being as non-confrontal as possible. Also, I took her has an example since she stated it plainly, but many has this kind of "vibe" in the writing that says the same thing (Oh look, he gave her a box of chocolates! Isn't the guy nice despite doing everything else), and instead of making it about one person, I hope to spread it across several people in the hopes of a (if very minor) change.

Also, should that author read this and not recognise I'm talking about them, yet still take the words to heart and take a rain check every now and then in their future stories, it's more positive rather than having a confrontation in which they mulishly decide that they're right (which is, as I'm afraid, the case of this particular author judging of how she ranted about shipping in her profile).

That and I just don't have the link and nickname anymore. I just checked her profile to make sure that I didn't miss any non-con warning there and it sort of stuck in my head and when I decided to rant, I decided to mention that.

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andreth_47
2008-08-14 02:25 pm UTC (link)

I appreciate what you're saying, but I also think this issue lends itself to oversimplification. Just a couple of points:

Fic like this if often written to explore something that the author wants and needs to work through. If an author writes a non-con scene, it's often to help them think through an issue and explicate things about their own sexuality, or sexuality in general, that might make them (or you) uncomfortable. A non-con scene in a fic is not endorsement of the behavior.

The phrase "sex without consent is rape" is, frankly, a hideous oversimplification. By this definition, I've been "raped" a couple of times, and, NO, what happened to me is by no means "rape". There is no comparison between what happened to me, and what happens to someone who is violently raped, beaten, or in fear for their life during the act.

To put rape into such black-and-white terms dilutes the horror of what rape really is. I think it mis-serves the cause of fighting rape, to lump all non-con acts together under one term like this. It's disempowering, rather than empowering.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

caithyra
2008-08-14 03:24 pm UTC (link)

Actually, I believe that all sex without consent is rape as it is the definition of rape.

Yes, rape might seem a harsh word to use for something as "minor" as surprise sex or when someone says stop and the guy doesn't pull out until a few minutes later, but still, it is rape.

It just isn't as violent a rape than others. And consent can be given in many ways (such as enthusiastic participation).

Also, some women has a very good confidence in themselves and therefore doesn't see what happened to them as a rape because they don't feel like it was a big deal.

Some women doesn't think rape is rape when they don't remember the act because of drugs.

Some women think that because they're married to the guy, it isn't rape.

But the very definition of rape is that it is a sexual act without consent, fear or no fear.

Also, would a therapy-fic be talking about how healthy this relationship is, be posted in general fandom without any warnings or ratings meaning "non-con" and then having the author squeal in the author's notes about how romantic things is going. It wasn't just one scene, it was chapter after chapter of different kinds of sexual assaults, invasions of privacy and stalking.

If it was therapy-fic, why was it posted on FF.Net? Why are there so many of these fics on FF.Net [the one I used was an example, I don't rant if I only see it happen one time in one fic. It takes several fics by several authors for me to rant]. Wouldn't a community of like-minded, perhaps like-experienced, people be better? Why were there no trigger warnings on these fics? Some fic readers doesn't like to have surprise-PTSD sprung on them, and an author writing therapy-fic would understand this (unless it never crossed their minds).

Also, rape is pretty black-and-white.

Sure, you didn't get scarred as some victims (which is actually great!) but someone else, by the same actions (we're still talking sex without consent, right, as I don't know what happened to you) might have a mental breakdown. I know that because of my history and fear of humans in general, any touching without my own consent (or even being in the same room as another person) can make me start a panic attack. Much less any sex.

Rape isn't all about sex though. It is about power. The rapist has power over a drugged victim and even if the victim never fears for their life, or remembers the act, the rapist still extert that power. Similarly, someone starting to have sex with someone that's asleep might not seem like a threat to the victim, but they still exhibit the same "I have the right to have sex with you" mentality as the scumbag who rapes someone at gun-point.

Feministing.org, Feministe.us and a few other feminist sites has a good argument for this (and they put it more clearly and better than I ever would). Especially when it comes to the "grey area" of rape.

Perhaps we need definitions of rape. Such as "Violent Rape", "Disrespectful Rape", "Couldn't-take-the-time-to-make-sure-that-she's-onboard-Rape"?

Or perhaps we must agree to disagree about this one. But remember, one woman's "not rape" is another woman's "not leaving the house again for five years, and that is with intesive therapy and calming drugs!". Perhaps the situation you could handle could not be handled by another person?

Sorry if I sound disrespectful to your experience, I still admire you for not feeling threatened by another's advances (as I can't go out into my garden without feeling uncomfortable and scared that another human might show up).

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	caithyra 2008-08-14 03:27 pm UTC (link)
	EDIT: Feministing.com /Really needs to check her eyes (Reply to this) (Parent)

andreth_47
2008-08-14 04:34 pm UTC (link)

Also, rape is pretty black-and-white.

That's kind of the point I'm trying to make (probably not being very clear, it's a tough issue to discuss): that we need a more detailed terminology for the phenomenon. It isn't all just the same thing.

The problem, as you note, is that one person's 'rape' isn't rape for someone else. And yes, I'm very lucky to be on the 'isn't' side of that fence! No, you don't sound disrespectful at all, and I hope I don't, either.

Re fic, I think that a story can be therapy fic even if the author doesn't realize it herself. Even if she thinks she's okay with the non-con, there's a reason she's writing about it. It might be subconscious, but it's still working through an issue. Maybe it's just understanding one's own (warped, in my case! *g*) sexuality.

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elfwreck
2008-08-14 04:44 pm UTC (link)

Digression from fic issue: There are types of sex-without-consent that aren't rape. For example, I love being awakened to sex already happening, and have had the damnedest time convincing my husband that no, he doesn't need to wake me up and get consent first. In this case, he has prior consent--EXCEPT that of course, consent last time is not the same as sex every time; maybe one day I'm just not feeling up to it, but I've got no way to tell him "I don't consent this time." (Hypothetical. Has never happened.) He was acting with a reasonable expectation of consent, but no actual consent for any particular event.

In fic: there are cases where the *character* doesn't know if there's consent (including a whole lot of "sex pollen/fuck-or-die" settings). There's a lot of sex by obligation where the "consent" is "I agree to this in order to avoid _____ or buy your support, not because I actually want the sex." Those aren't exactly rape, either.

And even in total nonconsensual sex, legally rape today in the US...
there's a difference between "sex forced on someone as an attempt at a demeaning kind of power & control" and "sex forced on someone because the forcer was so clueless he (sometimes she, and that's almost impossible to prosecute) failed to notice the clues (sometimes damned obvious clues) that said the other person didn't want this."

They are both atrocities--but teaching people how to deal with and avoid one, doesn't fix the other; we need an awareness of the difference in causes so we can work against both.

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msilverstar
2008-08-14 07:50 pm UTC (link)

I think this is a widespread and longstanding issue with the romance genre, where there's a lot of "he swoops her off her feet, she comes to her senses and realizes she loves him". So it's not fandom or those authors in a vacuum, look at that Twilight series. In fact that there's so much fic where that doesn't happen is wonderful.

For what it's worth, I think the term "date rape" is a useful one, as it acknowledges that it doesn't take violence to rape someone.

I once had to reject a fic in an exchange I was modding because the recipient specifically said "no non-con". The author thought it was OK because the victim was surrendering himself to his abuser. It was a hard decision, because I want to make exchanges happy for everyone, and I just couldn't let that through.

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randomsome1
2008-08-14 09:53 pm UTC (link)

*insert Twilight fandom cracks here*

I think it's in part a social thing: Sex is put forth as bad and dirty, yet simultaneously the be-all-end-all of a relationship. Also, guys are put forth as the ultimate thing to have--if you're not in a relationship or married, you've obviously got to be miserable. (See: Sex & the City, where the women could do anything but get by without a man; the tabloids that go on and on about how X celebrity absolutely MUST get with someone ASAP to be "happy") Girls get wildly fucked up messages about how they should behave in relationships, and about the "proper" ways their SO should behave towards them. The end result possibly best exemplified by the masses of squealing teens grabbing up the latest S.Meyer book & shrieking on about how wonderful a boyfriend Edward is--because he doesn't treat Bella like property all the time, because he only locks her in her house, breaks her car, isolates her from her friends, stalks her, and throws her around "for her own good," because he only calls her an idiot when she deserves it, and if she just did what he told her then she wouldn't get in trouble/get hurt all the time.

(My anger towards that series, let me tell you about it.)

So yeah, I consider the proliferation of rape-as-romance fics and the romanticization of the ultra-dominant guy (who overrides all wishes of the woman--for her own best interests, of course) as symptoms of something--but I'm not sure what. Is it putting sexuality out of the girl's (or bottom's, as far too many yaoi romances read like stereotypical bodice-rippers with an extra penis) hands so she doesn't have to feel dirty or responsible for enjoying it? Is it a rejection of personal responsibility, where so many things are heaped on us all at once and it'd just seem so much easier if someone was there to make all the right choices for you? Or is it something I'm just too independent to understand?

And would this type of fangirl and/or author recognize an IRL abusive relationship or a bad situation or a sexual assault? If they're told it's romance and they honestly truly think it's romance, or that they deserve what happens to them, how much more would the emotional impact fuck with them than it would with anyone else?

Pardon my teal deer, I've been pondering this for a little bit.

(Reply to this)

	(Anonymous) 2009-03-12 01:26 am UTC (link)
	Oh Buffy fandom how I love you. I know this happens in all fandoms but so many fics that I've read lately with Spike in them has this. (Reply to this)