Dark Christianity

New org providing support for multigenerational walkaways

dark_christian@comcast.net — Sun, 11 May 2008 06:54:06 GMT

(Also posting this on the LJ woundedwarriors community)

A new organisation called RISE International has been set up specifically to provide not only pointers to therapeutic resources but--in an area that has been sorely neglected until now--also provides specific legal assistance to multigenerational walkaways seeking to leave coercive religious groups.

The group, which partners in the US with Children's Safe Passage Foundation, is presently active in the UK and the US; among other things, they are working to educate law enforcement and CPS personnel about religiously motivated child abuse and provide legal assistance to multigenerational walkaways who may need the assistance of the courts to escape (via emancipation proceedings) or who may wish to file lawsuits against the groups that abused them.

The group will also be conducting a specific seminar on specific issues of multigenerational walkaways and children in coercive religious groups. The group is also conducting a memorial to children who have died in coercive groups and a day of remembrance on 10 August.

Two articles of note re Hillary Clinton's connection with "The Fellowship" nee "The Family"

dark_christian@comcast.net — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:16:38 GMT

Two articles of note--and I encourage readers to recommend them both:

Frederick Clarkson reports on revelations Hillary Clinton may be part of a cell-church group run by "The Family" nee "The Fellowship" along with efforts by Clinton's friends to perform spin control. (Notably, NBC Nightly News has begun its own investigation of the group, in part because of Jeff Sharlet's writing; Sharlet has a new book due out in May re "The Family".)

Also, I've done a wee article re the potential implications of this--pretty much almost *everyone* who's had experience with abusive "discipling and shepherding" groups in neopente dominionist orgs probably has their alarm bells ringing now over the revelation Clinton is in a cell-church.

Breaking--official support for hategroup "Watchmen At The Walls" by Assemblies as a whole

dark_christian@comcast.net — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:51:56 GMT

(X-posted to relevant communities)

In regards to an ongoing followup on an article posted by Richard Bartholomew on Talk2Action (re a conference being held at which "Watchmen at the Walls" founder Alexey Ledyaev was speaking on political organising) in connection with the particular Assemblies church I am a walkaway from being linked (the church I escaped from, similarly to "Watchmen", is virulently anti-LGBT)), I have found some very disturbing info that indicates:

a) The conference in question is in fact essentially a powwow for the most hardline of the hardline re Assemblies "Joel's Army" churches;
b) Ledyaev is apparently director of media for both the conference and its parent organisation (a group called Second Billion);
c) A *very* large number of regional and national Assemblies of God leaders are directly involved in the organisation, including the national director of home missions for the Assemblies, regional directors throughout the US and the world, and a major "professor" for the Assemblies' mail-order seminary courses
d) Ledyaev isn't the only one *by far* in that org who calls for frank genocide against non-dominionists (the mail-order seminary "prof" is in fact the founder of Second Billion and insinuates the ancient Israelis weren't thorough *enough* with killing non-Israelis, and exhorts the members in a sermon to be even more thorough).

I have mirrored the article in which I have published this research widely:

Daily Kos mirror
Street Prophets mirror
Talk to Action mirror
NewsVine mirror (on Outing Dominionism community)

Please recommend and comment widely on this. Please mirror this if you can.

SPLC's updated Hate Groups list now includes multiple dominionist orgs

dark_christian@comcast.net — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:32:16 GMT

Southern Poverty Law Center has now updated its hate groups list (featured in the Year in Hate issue of the Intelligence Report--and of note to this community, there are now multiple dominionist groups listed officially as hate orgs, largely for anti-LGBT and anti-non-dominionist rhetoric.

In its anti-gay section, the list is almost entirely comprised of dominionist groups--Watchmen At The Walls (a highly violent "Joel's Army"/"Joshua Generation" neopentecostal dominionist group with close links to Assemblies of God leadership including not only regional Assemblies heads as known "Watchmen" but also official VIP spokesmanship at large Assemblies evangelism conferences) and Abiding Truth Ministries (publishers of the Holocaust-revisionist "The Pink Swastika", used as anti-LGBT propoganda by "Watchmen" and other anti-LGBT dominionist orgs like American Family Association national and state affiliates in *exactly* the same manner that the forgery "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" has been used to sanction anti-Semitic hate crimes and the Holocaust) are the newest listed groups, along with Traditional Values Coalition (an old dominionist group and one of the very few 501(c)4 orgs of political dominionism), Family Research Institute (Paul Cameron's bogus "research" organisation which is the primary source of almost all anti-LGBT "statistics" used by dominionist orgs), Mass Resistance (a dominionist group fighting Massachusett's recent legalisation of same-sex marriage), and Chaldecon Foundation (an org that essentially has operated as the font of "Christian Reconstructionist" thought in almost the same manner that the "Assemblies family" of denominations has been the focus of neopente dominionist thought). I also know personally that there is ongoing investigation with other known dominionist groups--so that list may well be added to by next year.

Several dominionist groups now listed as hate groups by SPLC (in their General Hate category--essentially a catchall of largely religious extremists) include Tony Alamo Ministries (a "Bible-based cult" that engaged in what amounted to a massive dead-agenting campaign), a group calling itself the National Prayer Network (which is carried in dominionist news services, but--in what apparently is something *very* close to the dividing line between "Joel's Army" groups and Christian Identity--is also known to be highly antisemitic), Jack Chick (likely for the highly anti-Catholic and in general anti-non-fundamentalist bent of their publications), and Texe Marr's "Power of Prophecy" (Marrs has been one of the major promoters of abusive "deliverance ministry" in the dominionist community, and is likely being listed due to virulently anti-pagan and anti-anything-not-neopentecostal writings; Ken Cuhulain's "Witch Hunts" (a documentary of anti-neopagan writings by dominionists including extensive coverage of promoters of "Satanic Panic") quite extensively writes up on Marrs).

In news around the community...

dark_christian@comcast.net — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:09:19 GMT

a) Gothard now discovered to have links to Ken Blackwell and George W. Bush--including those periods where Dubya may have been initially recruited by dominionists. (Please recommend/distribute the first link widely.)

b) Watchmen At The Walls' Latvian leader will be front and center at a major evangelism conference/Assemblies of God powwow--one which is being held in conjunction with a Kiev, Ukraine church also linked with "Watchmen At The Walls". (This is particularly personal to me, in part, because one of the major presenters just happens to be the pastor of the very Assemblies church I am a walkaway from; the conference is also getting a lot of official Assemblies-level support, including reps from the Home Ministries division.) Again, please recommend and distribute widely--this may be a real danger sign that "Watchmen" is in fact being officially embraced by the Assemblies, and it may be a sign we need to start treating the Assemblies as a bona fide hate group.

Hamilton Co (Ohio) commissioner begins investigation of Gothard programs

dark_christian@comcast.net — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 00:10:13 GMT

Recently got it up on DailyKos (and will be distributing it to the Other Usual Sources today or tomorrow), but Hamilton, OH county commissioner Todd Portune has launched an investigation into Cincinnati, OH's "Character First!" participation in part because of revelations of Bill Gothard's promotion of "Bible-based" child abuse.

This is extremely welcome news--Cincinnati was one of the "demonstration cities" for Gothard's program, and this investigation could well lead to investigations elsewhere (including the program Mike Huckabee ran in Arkansas). The more sunlight on this sort of thing, the better.

(And FWIW, as noted, recs/tips always appreciated. If you have specific tips about possible Governmental Misdealings with Huckabee and Gothard--or any other cities or states where a "Cities of Character" or "Character First!" program has been put into place--feel free to post it here or (if you don't want to post in public) I will accept tips at dogemperor(dot)dkos(at)gmail(dot)com.)

Christian Black Magic aimed at Mikey Weinstein

dark_christian@comcast.net — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:29:05 GMT

From The Wild Hunt by Jason Pitzl-Waters

Christian Military and Malicious Magic

[...] The Philadelphia Jewish Voice has posted a chilling interview with Michael Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, and a former Naval serviceman who served with the Reagan Administration. Since 2004 Weinstein has been waging a very public battle over what he sees as the pernicious influence of a certain strain of evangelical Christians on our supposedly secular military. Since starting his organization, Weinstein claims that nearly 7000 active duty members of our military have come forward complaining of harassment due to their religious faith.

"By last week, over 6,800 active duty members of the United States Marine Corp, Navy, Army and Air Force have come to our foundation pretty much as spiritual rape victims/tormentees and the shocking thing is 96% of them coming to us are Christians themselves. Roughly three-quarters are traditional Protestants, like Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodist. We get Mormons, we get Assembly of God, Church of Christ, Southern Baptist. One-fourth of that 96% percent of that total universe of 6,800 --- more each day --- one-quarter of that 96% are Roman Catholic. About 4% will be Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, Wiccan, Jain, Shinto, Native American spirituality or atheist or agnostic."

Weinstein has also received death threats, "talks" from fellow Republicans and military men who tell him that the Jews who died in the Holocaust are burning in hell, and malicious magical prayer workings from evangelical Christians. [...]

More on the Huckabee threat to our freedom

dark_christian@comcast.net — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:37:23 GMT

BREAKING: Mike Huckabee member of Bill Gothard cult

[...] The more that comes out about Mike Huckabee, the more I get scared.

So far, he's admitted he's part of the "Left Behind" fandom crowd, he's gotten endorsements and help from hate groups (like a pastor linked with "Watchmen On The Walls" who also wants to kick all non-dominionists out of the country), released rapist-killers from prison, wants to change the constitution to make the US a de jure theocracy, snd rather explicitly has invoked "God's Army" in his speeches.

As bad as that gets, though, it's worse than I feared. It seems that Mike Huckabee is not only a good friend of neopente cult leader and "Bible-based baby beating" and Joel's Army-with-guns advocate Bill Gothard...but he's also a member of his Bible-based cult.

And folks...that has some very scary implications in regards to that whole "Christian Nation" thing. [...]

Salon: Holy Constitution!

[...] Behind the happy, healthy, guitar-strumming campaign style that has so besotted the national press corps, Mike Huckabee looks like something considerably less charming -- a zealous proponent of the "biblical" reformation of every aspect of American society.

If that sounds too extreme and aggressive to describe the smiling Huck -- who introduced himself to the country as "a conservative, but I'm not angry about it" -- then consider how he explained his urge to revamp the nation's founding document. At a public forum on the eve of the Michigan primary, while mocking Republican opponents who don't want to append a "marriage amendment" or a "life amendment" to the Constitution, he said: "I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God, and that's what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards."

That outburst appalled many Republicans, who heard those words as an assault on traditional conservative and libertarian values. The next day on National Review Online, Republican speechwriter and strategist Lisa Schiffren complained: "Mike Huckabee is going to force those of us who have wanted more religion in the town square to reexamine the merits of strict separation of church and state. He is the best advertisement ever for the ACLU." [...]

You should all read both articles. And if you aren't seeing Nehemiah Scudder when you are done, maybe you need to read Revolt in 2100 (buy it here, or find it in the library).

And to those who will say, "So what, the President doesn't have the power to change the Constitution", I suggest you research the The Yoo position on the "Unitary Executive", and also martial law.

Choice quote from Huckabee...

dark_christian@comcast.net — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:52:07 GMT

"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution," Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. "But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."

Are you as disturbed as I am?

I truly don't know what to make of this...

dark_christian@comcast.net — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:33:41 GMT

Christian right does not have the brains to govern, a founder of movement says
JewsOnFirst.org interview with Rutherford Institute President John Whitehead

[...] When I read John Whitehead, the president of the Rutherford Institute, writing that "the Christian Right has used religion like a sledgehammer to beat down its opponents," and that its activists were "seduced by political power," I had to know more.

The Rutherford Instititute, which represented Paula Jones in her sexual harassment case against President Bill Clinton, has been associated with the religious right. Rutherford won the court decision requiring elementary schools to host teacher-led after-school fundamentalist Good News clubs. The institute is representing a New Jersey high school coach suing to participate in his team's "student-led" prayer (more here). Its website lists other cases in which it is defending or promoting sectarian religion in public settings.

So why was Whitehead, writing in Liberty Magazine, criticizing the Christian right for casting its lot with the Bush administration? "In the process of seeking policy outcomes and funding for faith-based initiatives," he wrote, "Christian activists were seduced by political power to such an extent that the gospel of Jesus Christ has been held hostage to a political agenda."

I requested an interview to discuss Whitehead's essay in Liberty, entitled "The Decline of the Christian Right." He granted my request, and we talked by telephone on January 3rd.

Regarded as a "traitor"
He described himself as a founder of the Christian right who became disillusioned with its agenda and some of its leaders. "I'll be honest with you," he said. "It was like waking up after a three-day drunk."

Movement leaders such as James Dobson of Focus on the Family now regard him as "a traitor," Whitehead told me.

Whitehead termed George Bush, elected as the candidate of the religious right, "the worst president" we've ever had.

"Be wary of people in power who say they hear from God," Whitehead said in the interview. "I'm a Christian, and I don't think that God talks to people." [...]

"It was like waking up after a three-day drunk." That is one powerful statement.

And before anyone else notes it, Godwin's Law doesn't apply. He was speaking in a phone interview, not online. And even if it did, Godwin himself said his law was only applicable where the comparisons were inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic.

Huckabee wins Iowa

dark_christian@comcast.net — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:58:39 GMT

Huckabee, Obama enjoy huge night in Iowa

[...] Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate.

With 92 percent of Republican precincts reporting, Huckabee, former governor of Arkansas, had the support of 34 percent of voters, compared to 25 percent for Romney. [...]

What does this mean for us at dark_christian? Well, Rev. Stan Moody of the Christian Policy Institute has one view worth noting here.

JewsOnFirst: Mike Huckabee, Christian Zionist
Huckabee's proposals amount to ethnic cleansing of Palestine

[...] Orthodox Jews love him. The Christian Right loves him. The LaHayes (authors of the Left Behind series) love him. Tele-Zionist John Hagee loves him.

It is not because Gov. Huckabee is not a Mormon that they all love him. It is because his foreign policy as President will be to put the finishing touches on the Bush Doctrine in the Middle East.

In a nutshell, Huckabee is a Rapturist. I’ll explain.

Belief in the Rapture is predominant within Evangelical circles. It has no biblical support except by inference. It finds no place in the early history of the Christian Church and is based primarily on a prophetic interpretation developed in England in the mid 19th Century. Its architect was John Nelson Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren movement, a fundamentalist Christian sect that came out of Dublin, Ireland in the 1820’s. Darby published some 50 books on his unique interpretations of the New Testament.[...]

So the Republicans are apparently on track to nominate an avowed Rapturist, who will certainly further taint church state separation, and continue the failed policies of the Bush regime in the Middle East.

CNN: A survivor of "prosperity gospel" speaks out

dark_christian@comcast.net — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 00:12:20 GMT

CNN has recently posted a very interesting and very sad article from a person who was pulled into the neopente dominionist "prosperity gospel" stuff--and ended up in debt to the point she had to borrow from neighbours and family just to eat.

Sadly, this is *not* uncommon with these groups, and hits *very* close to home for me--there were times my family had to charge groceries at salvage stores when I was growing up because my mother was giving thirty percent or more of our pre-tax income to the church for tithes, "love offerings" and "seed faith offerings".

The post ties in the three pastors the survivor donated to (Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, and Paula White) in regards to the ongoing investigation of several "name it and claim it" promoters by Sen. Grassley (and there are some indications the investigation may soon expand beyond the six "name it and claim it" promoters to a general investigation of the televangelist industry--to which I say, it should have happened 20 years ago, but it's good to see it now).

Not noted in the article, but important to note--yes, this is related to dominionism and neopentecostal dominionism in particular:

a) Many of the parties specifically mentioned explicitly promote neopente dominion theology and deliverance ministry; both modern television and radio networks devoted to promotion of "name it and claim it"/"prosperity gospel" have been the primary conduits of promotion of political dominionism (and this is not a recent innovation; in fact, televangelism and political dominionism have been hand-in-hand since the very beginnings).

b) Political dominionism in and of itself--especially as practiced within the Assemblies of God and its "daughter" churches (including most of the big neopentecostal megachurches where "Prosperity gospel" is promoted--almost all of them are either Assemblies "stealth congregations" or "Assemblies daughters")--is *itself* a subset of "name it and claim it"; these groups teach in general that people can "open doorways to Satan" via the most innocent activities and that nations can be "oppressed by Satan" or--in many cases--have God "withdraw his blessing" for tolerating things outside the church "rules" (including things like equal rights for women, mere tolerance of non-neopentecostal religions, allowing LGBT people to exist, etc.).

Most churches promoting "name it and claim it" also promote some version of "Serpent seed" theology, which teaches that all people are either "children of God" or "children of the devil"; quite often it is taught that the "Elect" also have been blessed for the specific purpose of eventually converting people to dominionist theology (by force, if necessary) and to crush all those opposing.

The infamous "Joel's Army"/"Joshua Generation" theology popular in Assemblies churches--both in its modern incarinations and in its origins within "latter rain" theology--both stemmed from "name it and claim it" revivals; the "Joel's Army"/"Joshua Generation" stuff in particular is explicitly linked to a series of revivals triggered by Paul Yonggi Cho (and later, Rodney Howard-Browne) now known (rather inaccurately) as the "Brownsville Revival" or "Toronto Outpouring" (the "revivals" started long, long before the "Brownsville Revival" in the early 90s; there are indications the source of this "movement" should actually be traced to Yoido Full Gospel in South Korea starting in the mid-50s, and at least four churches in the Americas (including the church I am a walkaway from and New Life Church in Colorado Springs) which were Assemblies or "Assemblies daughters" (in the case of New Life; it's still not certain if New Life is truly an "Assemblies daughter" or possibly a stealth Assemblies congregation) promoted it all the way back in the 60s and 70s). Pensacola's main newspaper has written a particularly damning expose of the "prosperity gospel" revival credited with widely popularising "Joel's Army" theology (and mirrored at Rick Ross Institute); the "revival" had such bizarre claims as people spontaneously having tooth fillings changing to gold, etc.

Mother Jones blog on Dominionists in the US military

dark_christian@comcast.net — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 06:32:15 GMT

Mother Jones: Merry Christmas From the U.S. Military

[...] As Ann Coulter says on a poster hanging on the door of the military police office in Fort Riley, Kansas: "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity." It's Jesus time!

That, at least, appears to be the way the military is heading according to a bevy of findings released by the of Military Religious Freedom Foundation this week, just in time for the holidays. [...]

Warning, there is explicit language in the article, quoting a threat received by Mikey Weinstein.

Texas considering accrediting Creationism school

dark_christian@comcast.net — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 03:31:17 GMT

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/12/are_we_tired_of_texas_inanity.php

I don't think this needs much comment.

User Info Update

dark_christian@comcast.net — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:57:12 GMT

I've gone ahead and copied the current rules from the Live Journal community to this one. I might tweak on them a bit, since this is an open community.

Update on church shootings: Now religiously motivated child abuse involved

dark_christian@comcast.net — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:54:29 GMT

More and more, it seems the sad, sad case of Michael Murray and his nervous breakdown with semiautomatic weapons (which resulted in not only the loss of his own life but that of five others at a YWAM mission post at Faith Bible Chapel in Arvada as well as New Life Church in Colorado Springs) is appearing to be a very sad and tragic case of someone raised in an incredibly coercive environment who snapped.

From what we know now, Matthew Murray apparently was raised in a "stealth Assemblies" church and was a member of the highly coercive Youth With A Mission before being dismissed for what amounted to a psychotic break; we also know that he was raised in what amounted to a highly coercive environment in general and apparently was a member of Ex-Pentecostals (a major online forum). Notably, the members of Ex-Pentecostals tried to talk Murray out of his planned bloodshed--and, when it became horribly clear what had happened at Arvada--desperately tried to warn the FBI to prevent the tragedy that would later unfold at New Life Church.

Sadly, it seems that Murray's troubles literally began at the cradle--an Associated Press article finally details the levels of hell which Murray experienced as a kid in a dominionist household</a>.

It also appears that Ex-Pentecostals wasn't the only walkaway forum he was on. He also seems to have been correspondence-schooled using one of the most coercive and abusive curricula packages known:

Most information about Murray has become known in recent days through ranting Internet posts that appear to be the shooter's words. On one, a poster called Chrstnghtmr complained of not being able to "socialize normally" after being home schooled and described being an outcast who was always left out of everything.

One posting obtained by the AP was to a site called Independent Spirits, a gathering place for those affected by a strict Christian home schooling curriculum.

The author, again going by the handle Chrstnghtmr, describes going with his mother to a conference at New Life. The poster said he "got into a debate" with two prayer team staff members, who monitored him, then tracked down his mother and "told her a story that went something along the lines of I 'wasn't walking with the lord and could be planning violence.'"
. . .
Chrstnghtmr writes that at age 17, after an attempt at going "all out for Jesus," he plunged into a "dark suicidal depression" because he somehow couldn't live up to the rules. He wrote he felt he was "failing God." Chrstnghtmr describes his parents putting him on two antidepressants after he shared his feelings.

None of it helped, he wrote. "Everyone prayed, they laid hands on me, spoke in tongues over me, I sought out every kind of spiritual help I knew of in charismatic christianity," the post said.
. . .
Other posts also complain of an overbearing mother. At one point, the author said his mother patted him down for CDs, video games and DVDs whenever he returned from an electronics store. In another post, the author lambasts Bill Gothard, a Christian evangelist who developed a strict Bible-based home school curriculum.
. . .
On another Web posting, a person believed to be Murray said that his post-graduation options were limited to missionary work or attending Oral Roberts University, the flagship university of charismatic Christianity. A fast-growing subset of evangelical Christians, charismatics and Pentecostals believe the Holy Spirit continues to show signs and wonders in the world, including speaking in tongues, prophesy and miraculous healings.

Murray ended up enrolled in "disciple training school," a sort of Missionary 101 program run by Youth With a Mission, one of the world's largest evangelical Christian mission groups.

But warning signs soon emerged at the residential program in Arvada, a Denver suburb.

A former YWAM staff member, Michael Werner, told the Rocky Mountain News that Murray was painfully shy and had trouble socializing after growing up sheltered. Later, he exhibited extreme mood swings, spreading rumors about homosexuality at the center and performing dark rock songs by Marilyn Manson and Linkin Park at a 2002 Christmas celebration.

One night, Werner said Murray was chattering to himself and explained he was "just talking to my voices."

Murray was to take a mission trip to Bosnia, but YWAM officials said he was kicked out of the program for unspecified "health reasons."

On the posting on Independent Spirits, Chrstnghtmr described returning home after being ejected from YWAM, where he wrote it was "back to the good old restriction and that is when I started having serious doubts about christianity."

I did a bit of looking up of forums--as it turns out, Independent Spirits is a walkaway forum for survivors of Bill Gothard's tactics; Gothard himself is probably among the most explicitly coercive of all dominionist "Bible-based baby beating" promoters, and promotes not only baby-beating but a highly cultic system in general and is also a major promoter of the "Bible boot camp" industry.

Pagan groups may also now want to be aware that they may be targets of smears too--apparently Murray also attempted to join Ad Astra Oasis shortly before the shootings (he was rejected in October 2006).

Update on shooting: Worst fears of walkaway community confirmed :(

dark_christian@comcast.net — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:16:10 GMT

I reported yesterday on what is in fact known regarding the tragedy of Matthew Murray--a person who was apparently raised in coercive dominionist groups, joined the highly abusive Youth With A Mission, had a psychotic break, was summarily drummed out, and--as a mentally ill throwaway who undoubtedly had PTSD, in part because he still lived in the coercive situation--eventually snapped and shot up a YWAM post in Arvada and New Life Church in Colorado Springs before being killed himself.

Yesterday, I also noted that there was grave concern on Ex-Pentecostals--one of the oldest online support communities for people escaping abusive neopente dominionist groups--that the shooter may have been a member of their forums; they do report having a series of "violent" posts on their forums between the two times of the shootings (all of their info on the person in question who had the account has been turned over to the FBI).

Unfortunately, it seems the worst fears of all of us in the walkaway community have been confirmed--and we may all be under some increased scrutiny in the next few months...as 9NewNow in Colorado has just (indirectly) confirmed that the worries by Ex-Pentecostals' admins did in fact have truth: :(

KUSA - 9Wants to Know has discovered more than a dozen writings posted by Matthew Murray where he warns of an impending rampage and copied the statements of one of the Columbine High School gunmen.
. . .
"You Christians brought this on yourselves," Murray wrote on a Web site for people who have left Pentecostal and fundamentalist religious organizations.

It was the most recent posting of his on the site, dated Sunday, December 9 at 11:03 a.m.
. . .
In the Web writings, which are now being investigated by Colorado Springs Police, Arvada Police and the FBI, Murray warned, "I'm coming for EVERYONE soon and I WILL be armed to the @#%$ teeth and I WILL shoot to kill. ...God, I can't wait till I can kill you people. Feel no remorse, no sense of shame, I don't care if I live or die in the shoot-out. All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you ... as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world."

If the time on the posting is accurate, it was posted after the 12:30 a.m. shooting Sunday morning in Arvada and before the 1:10 p.m. Sunday afternoon shooting in Colorado Springs.

Murray's first posting on the day of the shootings is time stamped 10:50 a.m. It begins with a goodbye to those he has corresponded with for the past several months.

"You guys were awesome. It's time for me to head out and teach these (expletive) a lesson."

Murray continued, "Thanks for listening and all ... even though even many of you ex-Pentecostals don't understand ......(sic) See you all on the other side, we're leaving this nightmare behind to a better place."

Then Murray posted the 11:03 writing quoted above. That writing mirrors written statements by Columbine gunman Eric Harris.

After that final posting, one of the other Web site users realizes what's happened and wrote, "Oh no. I just saw this on the news."

Another wrote, "Yes, please don't do it. You'd only make them into martyrs and yourself into a fanatical, hateful zealot, in the public opinion."
. . .
9NEWS attempted to contact the webmaster without success. 9NEWS is not naming the Web site to protect the privacy of its users. Murray's writings were removed from the Web site on Monday night.

Investigators already have copies of Murray's writings and are studying other Web sites.

Throughout his writings, which spanned several months, Murray's violence continued to accelerate.

Some of the users tried to counsel Murray and one psychologist even offered her services after reading his poem called "Crying all alone in pain in the nightmare of Christianity".

Murray rebuffed her offer.

"I've already been working with counselors. I have a point to make with all this talk about psychologists and counselors 'helping people with their pain,'" he wrote.

In a later New York Times article, the admin of Ex-Pentecostals is interviewed; they (sadly) confirm that the poster was apparently a regular on the forums under the username "nghtmrchld26", and apparently made at least 11 separate posts on the forums between the times of the two shootings. The NY Times article also confirms that Ex-Pentecostals admins forwarded the info to the FBI and at least one forum regular may have even called the FBI to warn them even *before* the second shooting.

Disturbingly, Matthew Murray--in a post on 6 October--noted the possibility of sexual abuse in the Arvada-area church he was made to attend and explicitly noted coercive tactics in his own church--again leading to the very real and very sad possibility he was mentally ill and (due to a combination of mental illness and coercive tactics causing some kind of psychiatric injury) essentially had a mental breakdown with semiautomatic weapons involved. :(

This is a bad, bad, bad thing for walkaways, folks. Almost undoubtedly this tragedy could have been prevented if the kid had been able to get appropriate mental help (unfortunately, this is not always an option without court intervention when the kid is being raised in an isolated dominionist household). Now that the fact he was on a walkaway forum has been publicised, there is the real chance we're ALL going to be tarred as "anti-Christian" trenchcoat killers :(

And with that--I would like to make a statement, as a walkaway from the sorts of groups that Matthew Murray was raised in, on behalf of walkaways and the walkaway community:

a) Most of us are grieving right now the dual tragedy here--the tragedy of the lives lost at Arvada and Colorado Springs, and the tragedy of a man who had apparently serious mental illness exacerbated by being raised and eventually thrown out of a coercive religious group.

b) The walkaway community as a whole condemns the violence that occured--as replies on Dark Christianity and multiple walkaway forums have noted, shooting dominionists only feeds into the "martyr complex" and is sick, sad and wrong. There are much more effective ways to deal with the harm caused by these groups.

c) One of the great concerns we have right now in the walkaway community is that Matthew Murray's actions may taint the viewpoints of people regarding walkaways. I will note that he was *not* typical; multiple people on the Ex-Pentecostals forum for months apparently tried to talk reason into the boy without success. There are indications that he had serious mental illness going on (either PTSD severe enough to cause a psychotic break or possibly the initial presenting signs of schizophrenia).

Most of us on these forums are NOT out to shoot up a church. We're not out to hurt people. We're trying to recover from being badly hurt ourselves and educate people about the harm caused by the tactics used by many of these groups.

d) One of the things which has not been noted so far, but--in order to even have a ghost of understanding *why* Matthew Murray may have snapped and felt a need to go out in a blaze of glory--must be addressed (and, ironically, us in the walkaway community may be best suited to address this).

Namely, it appears Matthew Murray was raised and grew up in an environment of coercive religious practice. His parents were apparently members of a "stealth Assemblies" congregation in Arvada which is part of a denomination that promotes three pretty extreme forms of spiritual abuse: namely, deliverance ministry--which has many practices similar to Scientology; "Joel's Army" or "Joshua Generation" theology--a modern day of "latter rain" theology which promotes an extremely militarised version of dominionism; and finally dominionist "cell churches"--the newest name for the highly destructive "discipling and shepherding" model for which Maranatha became positively infamous in the 1970s. "Deliverance Ministry" itself is known to cause bona fide psychotic breaks in people (and this is fairly well documented by exit counselors at this point as one of the more destructive practices); it is also an integral part of "Prosperity Gospel" practices such as are practiced in New Life Church and Faith Bible Chapel and is also the basis of "Joel's Army" spiritual warfare theology. Youth With A Mission not only practices "deliverance ministry" but has actively extended it (as has "Joel's Army" theology in general), even going so far as to conduct "spiritual mapping" of specific areas for "territorial spirits" which must be exorcised--and on occasion the people involved being "exorcised" as well; no less than two separate exit counselors (Rick Ross and Steven Hassan) consider YWAM to be highly abusive. Cell-churches also are a part of YWAM's model; involvement in cell churches (of the sort popular in Assemblies churches) are known to cause documentable personality changes on both short-term and long-term levels that do *not* occur in non-abusive groups.

In addition to his parents' involvement in an abusive church and his involvement with YWAM, it appears his brother went to--and the shooter considered attending--Oral Roberts University, a college under a great deal of controversy due to an embezzlement scandal and whose board of directors is almost entirely comprised of "prosperity gospel" and "Joel's Army" promoters. It appears that Murray was educated almost from the cradle using dominionist "homeschool" correspondence-school materials, likely from an unaccredited source like ACE/School of Tomorrow (there is no record of him ever having received a diploma or GED, and it's not unknown for dominionist correspondence-schools to issue their own "diplomas"). Based on that level of isolation, it's not unlikely he was the victim of religiously motivated child abuse (which is often promoted in dominionist correspondence-school circles--in particular the Pearls and Ezzos and Bill Gothard seem to be popular in dominionist "home education" circles). It's actually surprising he had Internet access at all.

It is also known that involvement in coercive groups can be a cause of post-traumatic stress disorder, and in particular a variety known as complex PTSD; the DSM-V is considering a dedicated definition for complex PTSD that specifically notes involvement in coercive religious groups as a triggering factor for this particular psychiatric injury. As noted, some particularly abusive tactics cause their own specific types of psychiatric injury. People who are what are termed "multigenerational walkaways"--escapees from spiritually abusive groups who were raised in them--have their own spectrum of special problems in adjusting to the outside world that are only now being recognised by exit counselors--socialisation issues being a biggie. (It really is not unlike being raised by zombies and then being brought into the human world as a teen.) People who are "throwaways"--people who either must leave for their safety or who are thrown out of an abusive group and who do not make the decision themselves to leave--also have a specific set of issues, trust issues being a major part of this, as well as worse PTSD and socialisation issues than even multigenerational walkaways.

In the case of someone who has a pre-existing tendency to mental illness, PTSD and complex PTSD can trigger manifestations of full mental illness. (It's not unlike how your leg being broken or a bad burn (an equivalent to a psychiatric injury) can throw someone who has a genetic tendency to diabetes into becoming a full blown diabetic because their insulin goes out of control (an equivalent to a mental illness and the tendency towards it)). We will probably never know, but it is entirely possible that his home environment and his involvement with YWAM in particular may have made Murray's preexisting mental illness worse.

In addition, there is a disturbing tendency in neopentecostal dominionist communities that embrace "deliverance ministry" for them to go away from conventional psychiatry--mental illness is all too often dealt with in "deliverance services" or in harmful "theophostic counseling" (which uses tactics very similar to those in Scientology and can definitely make preexisting mental illness worse; many of its promoters pushed "recovered memory therapy" in the 70's and 80's and spurred on a "Satanic Panic" (based on bogus claims of large, secret diabolist covens) that ruined the lives of thousands of people). There are actually entire "alternative" mental health systems used by the dominionist community that have been promoted as alternatives to "secular psychiatry". Use of dominionist "cures" for mental illness can be and has been fatal in past--Deanna Laney is a particularly infamous example (her mental illness was seen as a "prophetic gift" by her church, and eventually her "gift" told her God wanted her to stone her children as she and Andrea Yates were to be the "tribulation prophet martyrs" which are a part of Assemblies end-time eschatology).

In regards to the recent shooting at two dominionist groups in Colorado Springs

dark_christian@comcast.net — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:39:05 GMT

(Crossposted to Dark Christianity @ LiveJournal, as well as woundedwarriors on LJ)

By now, most of you know of the shootings at two dominionist groups in Colorado Springs--I've deleted the original post because there was too much talk that could be interpreted as supporting such action (and yes, kids, this is against our rules and will result in smackdowns), but I did want to put up another post detailing what we know so far about this.

Media reports have indicated that a gunman (and it is now suspected that it IS the same person) went first into a Youth With A Mission post in Arvada and killed two staff members (and injured two others); the gunman is now thought to have also targeted New Life Church twelve hours later and shot up the Sunday evening service--killing a teenage girl and another churchgoer before he was shot and killed by church security.

There are strong indications this was a preplanned attack, in the case of New Life Church; multiple pipe bombs and "other suspicious devices" were found at the church after the shooter was killed, and apparently pipe bombs and other IEDs have been found at the attacker's home--indicating he may have been planning to attack *multiple* dominionist churches in the area. Whilst the two YWAM posts are not connected, there's also indication that he may have been targeting Youth With A Mission specifically--New Life Church works *very* closely with YWAM on multiple things, including projects on converting other people of the book.

Update 4:10pm 10 December: CNN News has confirmed Matthew Murray was not only the shooter at both churches but was a YWAM walkaway--pointing out the very real possibility of a mental breakdown being the ultimate cause of this tragedy.

Update 4:26pm 10 December: Shooter Matthew Murray was apparently not a member of New Life Church, but per media sources was a member of Faith Bible Chapel in Arvada; reportedly the church has an extremely heavy emphasis on Christian Zionism and especially in targeting Jewish people for conversion, and also seems to have been heavily involved in dominionist politics as well. Faith Bible Chapel appears to be a neopentecostal church whose affiliation is not broadcast on its website, and it uses quite a lot of "Joel's Army" buzzwords in its website; based on the church's history page, it seems to be a daughter of Bethel Biblical, a neopente church in the area that is likewise heavily into conversion of Jewish people. Both are likely "stealth Assemblies" congregations; "Faith Bible Chapel" seems to be a very popular and common name for Assemblies churches in general, and there are indications that the Dream Center of Denver, CO is run by Faith Bible Chapel ("Dream Center" is a chain of "faith based rehabs" run by the Western Conference of the Assemblies of God, and any linkages between churches and "Dream Centers" are in fact dead giveaways these are in fact Assemblies-affiliated).

Update 5:01pm: Still more info coming out; apparently the shooter was largely homeschooled and the state of Colorado has no educational records of him past the third grade; the shooter also apparently was still living with his parents and had attended Colorado Christian University for a course or two (CCU has a bibolatrous statement of faith, and has attempted lawsuits against Colorado Department of Education officials who refuse to render state financial aid to the university due to its sectarian nature; CCU has claimed falsely to be nondenominational, but is in fact a Southern Baptist Convention-run college).

More and more, this is looking like a tragic case of a walkaway who snapped :( With the increasing emphasis on isolation of dominionist's kids in the manner that Matthew Murray was apparently isolated, one fears how many more cases we may see like this.

Update 10:17pm: More details have come out which--more and more--point to a very unfortunate case of someone raised in an abusive group whose life ended in tragedy. Among other things, there is evidence to suggest he is not so much a walkaway but a "throwaway", someone kicked out of a coercive religious group; apparently he was let go by YWAM in 2002 due to health issues "preventing him from being a missionary", and was also apparently kicked out of CCU and had planned to attend Oral Roberts University before being discouraged by costs of tuition. His brother is apparently attending ORU, and apparently the entire family is deeply dominionist and all of the children have been correspondence-schooled using dominionist curricula from their earliest childhoods. In both the case of YWAM and CCU, it appears that Murray may have been sending them hate mail ever since.

The security guard who ultimately shot Murray</a> has since been interviewed (warning: interview is likely to be triggering to walkaways from neopente dominionist churches); apparently she only fairly recently joined the church, but has worked as a security guard for Messengers International and as a police officer in Minneapolis in the 1990s. Messengers International is a ministry operated by preacher John Bevere; Bevere's ministry is connected with the Assemblies and in particular Hillsong A/G in Australia, and is a "Joel's Army" practitioner who has his own section on Deception In The Church (an evangelical Christian site highly critical of neopente dominionism). Bevere explicitly promotes "Prosperity Gospel", has been specifically noted in histories of "latter rain" theology (the theology ancestral to "Joel's Army" theology), is explicitly neopente dominionist in both the theological and political senses, and also explicitly promotes Joel's Army theology as a "restoration of the church". (Yes, you're reading this right: the "security guard" who had her own gun in church is apparently a security guard of a particularly nasty Joel's Army preacher.)

There are also indications of another, all-too-frequent and all-too-sad common occurence in neopentecostal dominionist groups in particular. Namely, it seems Matthew Murray ended up a throwaway from YWAM due to a psychotic break--either the result of psychiatric injury (people have ended up being hospitalised due to psychotic breaks directly caused by Assemblies-style "deliverance ministry" services) and/or as initial presenting signs of schizophrenia. (Another sad, fatal case of an Assemblies church's failure to recognise signs of mental illness and refer the person in question to appropriate mental health facilities is with Deanna Laney, who murdered her children (and left one in a persistent vegetative state) by stoning after stating visions she was seeing in psychotic breaks as "prophecies" at her church.)

And with that noted, here are a few other thoughts and notes:

a) For starters, this gives more evidence to New Life Church being a de facto Assemblies church or at least an "Assemblies Daughter" so closely wedded that it essentially operates as an "autonomous Assemblies" church; the shootings involved not only New Life itself but a Youth With A Mission post at the associated World Prayer Center. (YWAM itself is an Assemblies frontgroup, and New Life has been known to host some Assemblies ministries popular in megachurch "Assemblies daughters" like the Royal Rangers.)

b) I've said it before, I'll say it again: Violence, at least against groups like this, is dumb and wrong (self-defense is another issue, but I'm talking about someone shooting up a church or vandalising churches and such). It makes us all look bad.

As a related aside, this community will not tolerate posts in this thread advocating violence against dominionists. As I will note below, there is likely to be some amount of increased scrutiny of pretty much all forums where walkaways are a signifigant part of the population; this is something that can also get the community in serious trouble, even banned. People who promote this stuff WILL be shut down. 'Nuff said.

c) If the guy was trying to take out YWAM (as is now speculated to be the case)...I strongly do not approve of his actions, but at the same time I am also sadly not entirely surprised that such a tragedy would eventually happen. YWAM is easily one of the most coercive neopente dominionist groups known, and probably the most abusive of the fifty-odd or more known frontgroups of the Assemblies of God (and, like many of the Assemblies frontgroups, plays itself off as a "parachurch" org); multiple exit counselors consider YWAM to be highly abusive including Rick Ross Institute and Steve Hassan's Freedom of Mind Institute. In addition to "Joel's Army" theology, the group actively promotes cell-church models (in a similar manner to Maranatha and in the Assemblies as a whole), an extensive theology of "territorial spirits" and "spiritual mapping" that pulls on Scientology-esque practices in "deliverance ministry" common to abusive neopente dominionist groups.

As noted below, the fact he was a throwaway likely exacerbated any existing issues.

It should be emphasized that his actions were *not* in any way appropriate, though. There are far better--and far more effective--ways to fight coercive groups that do NOT involve shooting up a church.

At the same time, there is also a chance that PTSD or something similar may be involved. We may never know the full story.

d) It is now known that the shooter was a "throwaway" from YWAM and possibly active on at least one walkaway forum--so *all* forums in which walkaways are active are likely to get increased scrutiny over the next few days to weeks.

According to a mail from an Ex-Pentecostals admin that was sent out to all members of the community this morning, reportedly an unknown individual posted a number of threatening posts on the forums between the time of the two attacks; the FBI has been forwarded the info, and there is apparently enough concern that provisions are being made for backup forums.

THIS is why we can't tolerate promotion of violence--we're *all* going to be under the microscope. We can help out much more by educating people about the coercive nature of these groups, how they damage people, how many of these groups have had a fifty-year plan of essentially taking over the US and setting up these coercive tactics as the law of the land. Threatening violence is just like wrestling with a pig here--you both get dirty and the pig likes it.

e) As noted, the shooter is in fact not only a multigenerational walkaway--someone raised in a coercive group--but also a throwaway. Throwaways are walkways who end up as walkaways who did not voluntarily leave their group, but were forced out; throwaways probably have the greatest recovery issues of any type of escapee from abusive groups, because they did not choose to leave and because (as a general rule) throwaways are multigenerational walkaways to boot. The "Lost Boys" of the FLDS communities of northern Colorado and some members of the Phelps family (largely disowned by the familial cult) are classic examples of "Throwaways", as are many LGBT people who were raised in abusive neopentecostal churches who have had to run away for their personal safety; a study of "throwaways" who were raised in the Exclusive Brethren show quite a lot of longterm issues with socialisation and trust, a great deal of which are related not only to having been raised in coercive groups but some of which are directly related to the abandonment.

f) One thing of note, too--there are also indications mental illness may have been involved. Coercive religious groups (and YWAM certainly qualifies, as do many Assemblies churches and the denomination as a whole) do have biases with recruitment of mentally ill individuals, and psychiatric injuries (of the sort caused by involvement in coercive groups, including especially those promoting "deliverance ministry" and cell-churches) are known to trigger mental illness in susceptible individuals; in general, as well, neopentecostal dominionist groups are far less likely to refer mentally ill members to appropriate aid (often labeling them as "possessed" and in need of "deliverance", or--even more disturbing--on occasion confusing psychotic breaks as utterances from God).

Cold-calling Dominionist pollsters?

dark_christian@comcast.net — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:43:52 GMT

LJ-SEC: (ORIGINALLY POSTED BY multiclassgeek)

A friend of mine asked for help in attempting to get a handle on the source of a particularly unpleasant cold-call. It seems as if some pollster got hold of their (ex-directory) number, and was looking to do some *very* selective sampling for their survey.

Today I had the most bizarre cold call. It's left me slightly shaken, fairly shocked and wondering who the hell these people were and how they got my phone number as we're not listed in the phonebook.

The call began with 'Kelly' on the end of the line asking me for about a minute of my time. She asked for 'the lady of the house' (a loaded phrase that in itself left me with raised hackles and wondering what 'moral guardian' type group was on the line and I wasn't wrong either!) and then told me this wasn't a sales call and would just take a moment. She started telling me how parents of under-16s are often worried about violence and inappropriate content on TV and asked me how I felt about that. She seemed momentarily floored when I said I had no idea as I was not a parent myself and as an ex-journalist I might have views on censorship that differ from hers. My response prompted a diatribe about statistics on violence on TV and she wasn't listening to a thing I said at that stage, more or less just shouting down the phone.

I ended up saying I was ending the call and putting the phone down, slightly shaken. I'd love to know *who* she called for and I'd be having words. It's a call centre, as there's no traceable number after the call, I already tried.

Whilst I realise this may not be a Dominionist group behind this, it sounds like the sort of thing they might try and pull (especially since the city where she lives has an Assemblies Megachurch in it), but I'm not aware of it having happened in the UK before. I was wondering if there was any precedent for it in other Dominionist groups? Are there any factions which have it as a 'signature tactic'?

Ideally, we'd like to try and get an idea of what (if any) Dominionist group is behind this, so that Action Can Be Taken, but any help that any of you can provide will be welcomed, even if it's just eliminating a Dominionist-friendly group as a probable/possible source of this.

In re the LJ Buyout, and what this means to Dark Christianity.

dark_christian@comcast.net — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:43:50 GMT

In regards to the recent buyout of Livejournal by SUP Inc. (which is apparently a company owned by friends of present Russian President Vladimir Putin), and also in regards to concerns that multiple people on my LJ friends' list have raised in regards to this recent buyout:

a) In the specific case of Dark Christianity I don't expect any major changes in how we do business here. The major areas where we *have* discussed Russia and the former USSR have been in regards to Orthodox Christianity's version of the ultramontaine movement and--more directly--in regards to neopente dominionist groups that have been invading Russia and other ex-USSR countries. (Of particular note, we've discussed "Watchmen On The Walls"; its leader is a Latvian-Russian national who is prohibited from entering Russia itself under its laws against hate crimes, but who has accomplices within Russia and who has actively fomented hate crimes against LGBT people in the US, Latvia, and Ukraine.)

Unless Russia goes dominionist, it's unlikely they'll crack down on this group--but it is understandable why people would be worried, what with an increasingly poor press freedom record within the USSR.

b) If things go bad, we *do* have backup plans in place, and we have for quite some time (since the Warriors for Innocence debacle back in May of last year, in fact). Not only do we maintain regular backups of posts here on Dark Christianity (including comments), we also have backup communities set up ready to "go live" in case anything bad happens.

Users of InsaneJournal--which is becoming a very popular alternative to Livejournal, especially for people who are concerned about SUP's buyout of LJ--will want to know that a Dark Christianity RSS feed exists for the LJ community on InsaneJournal; I am also (as we speak) mirroring all Dark Christianity posts over to the InsaneJournal Dark Christianity community as an additional protective measure in the event that this community leaves Livejournal.

There are also other community options that can be put in force if need be, including Wordpress-style communities if necessary. We are not letting the community go away.

"The Golden Compass" sekkubg atheism to kids?

dark_christian@comcast.net — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:43:48 GMT

LJ-SEC: (ORIGINALLY POSTED BY shawnsmalley)

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/12/03/golden.compass.religion.ap/index.html

My favorite quote from this article:

Sister Rose Paccate, director of the Pauline Center of Media Studies in Culver City, California, said the books portray benevolence toward children and a God figure -- just one that's much different than the one Christians know.

She sees irony in calls to shun the film, considering that one of Pullman's central themes is that people should not follow orders and forfeit critical thought.

"If you just say 'no' to your kids without engaging in a conversation, they're going to see the movie anyway and all you're teaching them is power, not really teaching your values," Paccate said. "If we have faith, what are we afraid of?"

That quote pretty much sums it up for me.

Texas state science curriculum "pressured" to resign?

dark_christian@comcast.net — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:43:45 GMT

LJ-SEC: (ORIGINALLY POSTED BY idragosani)

The state's director of science curriculum has resigned after being accused of creating the appearance of bias against teaching intelligent design.

Chris Comer, who has been the Texas Education Agency's director of science curriculum for more than nine years, offered her resignation this month.

In documents obtained Wednesday through the Texas Public Information Act, agency officials said they recommended firing Comer for repeated acts of misconduct and insubordination. But Comer said she thinks political concerns about the teaching of creationism in schools were behind what she describes as a forced resignation.

Read more

Hobby Lobby subsidiary bails out ORU?

dark_christian@comcast.net — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:43:44 GMT

There are media reports floating around that Mardel Bookstore--a subsidiary of Hobby Lobby--has apparently bailed out Oral Roberts University to the tune of nearly 70 million dollars US.

More here in a DailyKos post I've written on the situation (those of you who are members--recs and tips appreciated!).

What do Dommies really use Conservapedia for?

dark_christian@comcast.net — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:43:42 GMT

LJ-SEC: (ORIGINALLY POSTED BY thebustocrookes)

Remember our chums at
Conservapedia “the trustworthy encyclopedia” (set up to give Dommies an online resource that shows the world *their* way without the liberal bias of, erm, facts)?

There’s a story in today’s Guardian about the most viewed pages on Conservapedia:

Main page: 1,951,467
Homosexuality: 1,810,286
Homosexuality and hepatitis: 518,398
Homosexuality and parasites: 453,062
Gay bowel syndrome: 429,873
Homosexuality and promiscuity: 422,589
Homosexual couples and domestic violence: 374,456
Homosexuality and gonorrhoea: 332,262
Homosexuality and anal cancer: 294,852
Homosexuality and mental health 294,223

Good to see what the "fair and balanced" people out there are using it to research…

Supreme Court refuses Houston bible monument case

dark_christian@comcast.net — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:43:39 GMT

LJ-SEC: (ORIGINALLY POSTED BY exotic_princess)

Since it's been in the news and I think mentioned here before...

As I recall, the bible hadn't been added to the monument until just a few years? before the suit, not from the beginning as stated in the article. Or maybe the bible just wasn't opened, or something.

I also love our new County judge's opinion on the matter... *cough*

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5331059.html

The court's decision brings to a close a four-year battle over a monument that used to stand outside the former Harris County Civil Courthouse on Fannin. The monument included an open Bible under glass.

But there could be future legal wrangling over the monument. County Judge Ed Emmett and Commissioner Steve Radack said they want the county to install the monument and Bible elsewhere on county property.

"I definitely would favor putting it up," Emmett said. "Some (separation of church and state) rulings are silly. We carry money around that says, 'In God We Trust.' "