LJ-SEC: (ORIGINALLY POSTED BY 1400scale)

Just in case anybody didn't know, Dr. Bob Altemeyer is one of the top researchers in authoritarian personality types: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

I'd exchanged emails with him before, and did so again today, regarding some recent conversations here at DC during the past couple of weeks.

Here's the exchange and his thoughts:


ME:
Dr. Bob:

A few weeks back, we corresponded regarding the possibility of High and Double-High RWA Social Dominators in the neoconservative movement potentially scapegoating their former Religious Right allies if and when it all goes down the political crapper (and it certainly looks as though it is) and the potential backlash against Christian fundamentalism that would probably result.

We discussed it on DarkChristianity a number of times, and it occurred to some of us that since Rove, Cheney, et. al. aren’t morons by any stretch of the imagination and there’s no way that they buy into the whole "End Times – Rapture – Second Coming" theology, the scenario I outlined may have been planned for as a sort of contingency; e.g.: the neocons formed an electoral alliance with the dominionists, which served a twofold purpose – A) a ready-made (and somewhat monolithic) voting base which propelled them to the top, and B) a ready-made fall guy if it all crashes and burns.

Assuming that’s the case, and considering that virtually nothing is done to reign in the Far Rights increasingly insane prejudiced, eliminationist, and downright insane rhetoric, I would argue that the scenario I outlined is even more likely than we thought.

Thoughts?

In addition, I remembered that according to your research, RWA leader-types and "Double-Highs" privately displayed contempt for those that followed them and almost never truly subscribed to the belief systems that they publicly espoused. I would say that’s a foregone conclusion regarding the neoconservatives, but it also occurred to some of us that that those traits may be mirrored in their dominionist counterparts; that fundamentalist leaders don’t actually believe what they preach.

It would explain the increasingly bizarre preconditions that megachurch pastors like John Hagee say must take place for the whole "End-Times" ball to get rolling (the US must nuke Iran, Soloman’s Temple must be rebuilt, etc.). If one assumes that they realize that these things are damn near impossible to accomplish, it would provide an easy explanation for the world going to hell in a handbasket WITHOUT THE RAPTURE.

By that logic, one could assume that they intend to keep their power (again, according to your research, Highs and Double-Highs crave power all the time) by telling their followers that because they failed to "Christianize" America, they were "Left Behind" and that they were now obligated to form the "End-Times Army" that they also preach about.

If that’s the case, then they’ve seriously underestimated the bulk of their followers.

Again, according to your research, many if not most follower-types privately doubt their belief systems, and without the Rapture as the ultimate reward for in-group loyalty, the vast majority of them would drop those beliefs like hot potatoes.

A few DC members assured me that there would be a few hard-core True Believers who probably WOULD become apocalyptic Christian terrorists, which would, in turn, fuel more public resentment against fundamentalism (particularly among FORMER dominionist followers – remember, RWA follower-types NEED leaders and causes and enemies, after all), and provide plenty of political fodder for any of the former neocons who escaped prosecution and "defected" back to the Left.

Again, thoughts?

HIM:

You folks have been having a lot of interesting conversations over at DarkChristianity. I'll be glad to pitch in my two cents' worth, and you may well feel they're overpriced at that.

1. Will the neocons blame the fundamentalists for the failures of their policy? That would be pretty hard to make stick, I think. The fundamentalists supported the neoconservative strategy, (and still do) and had no part in directly implementing it. Donald Rumsfeld did that, and he was the neocons' fall guy for the failure in Iraq. The neocons absolutely need the Religious Right to have any hope of having influence after 2008, so if you see them blaming Falwell for all their plans getting screwed up, prepare for the Rapture..

2. Do the authoritarian leaders on the scene today truly believe what they espouse re religion? Well, some of them (Cheney, Rove) don't do much espousing, and Rove has been exposed as making fun of some of the leaders of the Religious Right. They clearly have used the Religious Right to win elections, and played them for "suckers."

How about others? Psychology doesn't yet have a way of telling, for sure, what is really going on in someone's mind--lie detector tests notwithstanding. So the question is a very interesting one, which I suspect has different answers for different authoritarian leaders, and for different issues. I have grave doubts about simple social dominators' necessarily believing anything they say. The Double Highs are harder to figure, because the high RWA part of their personality may enable them to (for example) embrace Jesus and at the same time act in ways completely opposite to what Jesus taught, 24/7. They just keep Jesus locked up in a box in their minds, but they do "devoutly believe" in him, they tell themselves as well as others. I'm reading Tom DeLay's autobiography now, and it's a good question so far how much he was influenced by his having been "born again." I think GWB would be another very interesting case.

3. Are Double High leaders setting such impossible preconditions for the Rapture so that when it does not occur, they can turn their followers into the End Times Army? I don't think so, because they get a lot more mileage out of promising a coming Rapture than they'd get in saying it's not gonna happen. And I think they'd have trouble saying it's not gonna happen, because "it is written" that it will, and they've been saying that it will. And if they say it did happen, and folks got left behind because the US didn't use nuclear weapons against Iran, etc. they're going to have to find some people who did get lifted up out of the way. So my hunch would be that some leaders may be highlighting all that supposedly has to be done before the Rapture because they're trying to get it done. After all, the first step in rebuilding Solomon's Temple would be to blow up the mosque presently occupying the site.

ME:

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I didn't mean to suggest that guys like Robertson and Falwell are actually suggesting to their followers that they won't be Raptured, I do realize they insist it's gonna happen. What I meant to suggest was that if follower-types have secret doubts, leader-types theoretically might, too, and that they might be manifesting themselves in increasingly bizarre (and damn near impossible to accomplish) Rapture-"preconditions". John Hagee says that the US has to bomb Iran to effectively trigger the Rapture. Turn that upside down, and it translates as "if Iran is NOT bombed, the Rapture won't happen."

One of the DC members (a former fundamentalist walkaway) once highlighted how scared followers are of being Left Behind, and that it's very carefully fostered by the clergy. The Rapture is (mostly) an American theological invention, and the scenarios they're spinning that are supposed to prefigure the event seem too be getting exceedingly specific.

It simply occurred to to me that those leaders' own doubts or disbeliefs might be manifesting that way. "Christianizing " America is proving damn near impossible (because with their verbal tirades, they keep shooting themselves in the foot), but according to Dogemporer, it's atually explicitly taught in pentecostal and neopentecostal churches that if they don't succeed, they'll lose their "blessing", i.e.: get Left Behind.

And the End Times Army doctrine is apparently being stressed more and more in dominionist churches, the popularity of the Left Behind novels is proof of that.

WIth Global Warming, Peak Oil, and the AIDS pandemic in the third world, the world is arguably going to hell in a handbasket. Sooner or later the Rapture-ready crowd is going to realize that their promised reward for in-group loyalty isn't being met and that they'll just have to cope with the rest of us. My gut tells me that the majority of them (the ones with secret doubts, anyway) will, well, "Leave Behind" the movement when the coastlines keep rising and citywide blackouts start happening with greater frequency, or, God forbid, Iran IS bombed into the next century and they're all still here on good ol' Planet Earth.

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong.

HIM

As for the followers realizing that the Rapture is not going to occur (in their lifetimes at least), I doubt its nonoccurrence will slow them down at all. The Jehovah's Witnesses predicted the Second Coming and a thousand years of peace would begin in 1914. Then they started predicting it would occur real soon. A lot of people die waiting for it.

So we don't totally agree.

Well, who does?

I'm still convinced that Rapture doctrine and secret doubts about their beliefs are the key to Dominionism's downfall.