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Celandine's Chronicle ([info]celandineb) wrote in [info]cels_fic_haven,
@ 2008-12-29 09:34:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:coauthor: emiime, hp fic andrew/teddy, hp fic better the instruction, hp fic remus/sam, hp fic remus/teddy

HP fic: Better the Instruction (22/22) [Remus/Teddy, Remus/Sam, Teddy/Andrew, adult]
Title: Better the Instruction (22/22)
Authors: [info]celandineb and [info]emiime
Fandom: HP
Chapter pairings: Remus/Teddy, Remus/Sam, Teddy/Andrew; references to Remus/Sirius, Remus/other men.
Chapter rating: adult
Chapter length: ~7200 words
Warnings: Incest, anal sex, nipple clamps, rimming, first time.
Summary: Remus and Teddy complete their final lesson. Teddy and Andrew take care of Remus's plants--and something else--when Sam and Remus go on holiday.
Note: AU (Remus survived the war). See here for complete story header with all pairings/warnings. Also here.


Remus drew in a shuddering breath and raised his head from where it lay on his son's chest.

"Teddy," he said, "My boy. Come here." And he took Teddy's face with both hands and kissed his silent mouth.

"Dad," Teddy finally said, when they had broken the kiss, "Dad--that was--oh, god." Remus himself was similarly incoherent; in response, he just held Teddy close, their sweat-damp chests sticking together. His cock was softening inside Teddy's arse, but he didn't want to break their connection yet. He couldn't let it go. Not yet.

Instead, he covered Teddy's face and neck with languorous kisses, not regretting a moment of what they had just done--and, though he was spent and probably wouldn't get hard again, still anticipating what was yet to come.

He knew Teddy was hard, could feel the boy's erection, insistent between their bodies, but wondered if he could possibly convince his son to take a bit of a break between rounds. With a sigh, he shifted, slipping out of Teddy's loosened hole, and Teddy cried out and clutched at him when he realised what was going on, but too late, Remus had already done it. He lay next to Teddy on his side, propping his head up on his elbow, stroking his son's hair.

"Gorgeous," he said, echoing Teddy's words from earlier. "My boy."

Moisture glistened on Teddy's cheek. Remus suddenly realised that it was tears, not sweat. "Ted?" he asked, his voice rough with fear that he'd hurt Teddy after all. "Are you all right?"

Teddy nodded, but then his face crumpled and he let out a sob, pressing against Remus's chest. Remus automatically put his arms around his son, patting his back. Teddy never cried--not even when he had fallen off his broom during the summer holiday when he was twelve, and it had been three hours before they had gotten him to St Mungo's to have his broken arm mended.

His words were half-incoherent, spoken into Remus's skin. "'S okay--just wanted--not hurt--oh, I want--never--love you." Teddy lifted a blotchy face. "I didn't say it then. I didn't. I love you, Dad."

It was a good thing Teddy hadn't said it while Remus was still inside him, that was true. Too much, too confusing. But now, now, there was only one more step in their lessons, and Remus need not maintain the same level of control for that one. He could manage, even if he said, "I love you, too," and kissed Teddy the way he had kissed Sirius long ago. Afterward, though, he was compelled to add, "Not as I love Sam, or as maybe you'll love someone someday, whether Andrew or someone else. But I do love you."

Teddy's face went even pinker. He looked away and mumbled, "I know. I--I do love Andrew. I told him so. And he loves me."

"Oh, Ted." Remus pulled Teddy closer again, having no other way to express how glad he was. Andrew had his problems, but didn't everyone? If Teddy loved him, and the feeling was reciprocated, Remus couldn't be anything but happy for his son.

With a sigh, Teddy kissed Remus's shoulder. "I guess the way I feel about Andrew isn't exactly the same as I feel about you, Dad. But I'm not at all sorry for what we've done, honestly I'm not. Only that it's nearly over."

"I understand." Remus said. "You know I was reluctant to agree to begin with, and it hasn't been easy." Now that was an understatement. "In fact, I've found it extremely difficult at times, trying to balance what you wanted with what I could give, and not let either of us become too emotionally attached in ways that could be harmful. But I think we've managed."

"We have... mostly, anyhow."

"Good." Remus thought that was an apt description of his own feelings on the matter. Mostly he was all right with the realisation both that he'd actually fucked his son, and that he never would again--but there would always be a small stab of guilt to have done it, and a pang of regret to know that there would never be another time.

He stroked Teddy's back a moment longer, holding him close, then cleared his throat. "I suppose you're ready to..." he said, trailing off, and for a moment, he was ashamed at himself for being unable to say it, when all along he'd been honest with his son, using all the proper terminology.

"I'm... not, actually," Teddy said. "Um." He looked down, and so did Remus, to find that Teddy's erection had softened between them--Remus assumed it had happened when Teddy had become overwhelmed by emotion.

"It's all right," said Remus, "I believe that's happened to every man on the planet once or twice." He gave a chuckle. "Just be glad you're a teenager and can get stiff again, and not an old man like me." He couldn't help but indulge in a little self-deprecation.

"Dad, don't," said Teddy in the softest, most earnestly pleading voice Remus had ever heard him use. "Please. Not today."

Remus knew Teddy was right, and he said so, and kissed him. "I'm sorry," he added.

When they had kissed and caressed each other a while longer, Remus manoeuvred a hand between them and gave a few soft touches to Teddy's half-hard cock in an attempt to reawaken it. Teddy hummed and pressed forward into Remus's hand, his eyes closed and his head thrown back. Remus studied the look of intense concentration on his son's face, memorising it.

Everything inside Remus wanted him to stop what he was doing. He wasn't ready physically to be fucked by his son--his ageing body wanted to roll over and take a nap more than anything else--and he wasn't ready emotionally to have it all over with. But they couldn't lounge about with each other all day--though Remus planned for them to do a fair amount of that after Teddy had fucked him--and it had to end at some point. It had to. And so, despite his protesting body and his quavering emotions, Remus did his best to coax Teddy's cock back into a state of stiffness.

"Hold on," Teddy said when his cock proved to be somewhat reluctant. "Maybe we should take these off." He indicated the clamps adorning his nipples.

"Are you sure?" Remus asked. "You do remember how much they hurt the first time?"

Teddy nodded. "Yeah, but, um, I kind of like that hurt. And they're becoming a bit--I don't know. I can feel them, but I'm numb, so they're not really doing anything for me anymore. But if you took them off me..."

"Yes," said Remus, when Teddy trailed off, and he left off stroking Teddy's half-erection and began to unscrew the clamps that held Teddy's nipples captive.

"Ah--fuck," Teddy swore as the blood rushed back to the area, and Remus reached down quickly to see what the result was. Teddy's cock was stiffening further, and Remus kissed Teddy's nipples as it became fully hard in his hand. It was evident that Teddy enjoyed a bit of pain; maybe more than a bit, even, judging from his questions about that topic earlier. Well, so had Sirius, on occasion, and so had one or two of Remus's other lovers over the years.

Remus licked over the slightly swollen flesh where the clamps had pinched hardest. "Okay, Ted?"

"Yeah." Teddy let out a shuddering sigh and shifted a little. "Feels good."

"Good." With one more kiss to each nipple, Remus sat back. "Now. You wanted us facing each other before, and that was fine. But it's probably better, especially your first time, if I'm on my hands and knees and you're behind me; the angle is easier, and there's less to distract you. Plus, I have to warn you that I'm not sure how long I would be able to hold another position."


Teddy's face was soft with disappointment. "So you're saying we can't look at each other when I'm inside you."

"I'm sorry. I know you'd prefer that, but my honest opinion is that what I'm suggesting will be better for both of us," said Remus.

After a long moment Teddy nodded. "Okay, if you think that, then I'll accept it."

"The other thing I want to say before you start is that you shouldn't worry if I don't come again. As I hinted, I simply might not be able to, and that's not a reflection on you at all; just of the fact that I'm not as young as I used to be. It doesn't mean I won't be enjoying it, either." Remus touched Teddy's cheek. "I'm sure I will."

"I hope so," said Teddy, looking serious. "You made it so good for me, I want you to feel good too."

Remus smiled. "I'll talk while we're doing it, shall I? Since you won't be able to see my face, that will help you know how I'm feeling." The way Teddy had had such a filthy mouth while Remus was fucking him had been far more arousing than Remus had expected, and he rather anticipated returning the favour.

"Yes," Teddy said enthusiastically. "Please. That would be great." He put his arms around Remus and kissed him again, overwhelming in the sheer forceful eagerness of it.

Remus couldn't help but laugh, a laugh of sheer blissful happiness unshadowed by the ever-nearing end of all of their lessons, forever. He kissed Teddy back, then held him at arm's length for a moment.

Teddy squirmed, and he gave a laugh, too. "What is it, Dad?"

"I just wanted to get a good look at the man who's going to fuck me," Remus said, surprising Teddy, and surprising himself a little, too.

"Oh," said Teddy, colouring. "Well." Clearly, he didn't know how to respond to Remus's statement, but Remus didn't regret saying it.

Remus drew him close again and kissed him, then sat up. "All right," he said. "Are you ready to do this?"

Teddy nodded violently. "Yes. Yes. Can I lick you, first, please, like you did to me?"

Remus swallowed. "Oh, god, Teddy. Yes. Of course you can. I want you to." And he did, but more, he wanted Teddy to have the same opportunity he'd taken himself when he'd licked Teddy--to revel in the smell of the most intimate part of him, to perhaps store it away somewhere in his memory.

He got on his hands and knees, and Teddy settled himself behind him and whispered the cleansing spell. Remus felt Teddy's hands running over his thighs and buttocks, then Teddy spread him open and pressed kisses all down his crack, over his hole, and onto his perineum and bollocks as well. Then Remus felt Teddy's nose nuzzling him--yes, Teddy was taking the opportunity presented to him. Remus knew that scent was the strongest sense tied to memory. He knew he would always remember the way Teddy smelled--and he hoped Teddy would remember him, too.

When Teddy's tongue finally swiped over his hole, Remus shuddered, and his cock made a feeble attempt at a twitch. He pressed back against Teddy's intruding tongue and remembered he'd promised to talk while they were doing this.

"God, Teddy, that's wonderful," he gasped. "If I were eighteen years old, I'd be hard as a bloody rock right now. As it is, you're turning me on--god, yes, son, just like that." For Teddy had pushed forward, working his tongue past the tight muscle that guarded Remus's hole, making enthusiastic noises as he explored.

"My good boy," he continued, "yes, keep it up, you're brilliant."

Teddy made a noise that Remus interpreted as embarrassment at the praise, but his hands clutched more tightly at Remus's thighs, and his tongue slipped deeper.

"That's lovely, oh yes, press your lips to me and try sucking--oh, just like that, mm, you can touch my bollocks too, yes, wonderful." Remus stopped himself from adding Andrew doesn't know how lucky he is. He thought it, but selfishly he didn't want to say it, didn't want to have Teddy thinking about anyone else just now.

"Oh, that feels good, Ted, however long you want to do this I'm happy to have you keep on with it." And Remus kept talking, repeating himself as he continued to tell Teddy how hot it felt to have his son rimming him, how much it excited him.

At last, though, Teddy pulled away, resting his forehead against one of Remus's buttocks for a moment. "My jaw's tired," he said apologetically.

Remus craned his neck around to look at his son. "That's perfectly all right," he said reassuringly, and Teddy nodded and reached for the lube.

"Guess I'll go on, then."

Remus saw Teddy swallow hard as he slicked his cock, and then Teddy's fingers were on Remus, the lube cool for an instant but quickly warming as Teddy slathered it on. Teddy closed the bottle and tossed it aside, taking a deep breath.

"Should I stretch you some more, like you did to me?"

"You needn't. Take it slowly, and I'll be fine." Remus suspected that Teddy would have some trouble holding back if he had to wait much longer; he let his head fall forward again as his son's cock pressed against his waiting arsehole.

"Go on, Ted," murmured Remus. "Slow and steady, that's right."

He felt the stretch as Teddy breached him.

"Careful--not too fast," Remus reminded Teddy.

"Sorry, sorry," Teddy said, and slowed down, pushing steadily but showing admirable restraint in not slamming home; Remus knew that he himself would not have been as thoughtful at that age.

Teddy's cock was warm and solid inside him. Remus let out a contented breath. It should have felt wrong. It should have felt utterly, utterly wrong--and yet it felt completely right to Remus, to have his son inside him.

He bowed his head, just listening to Teddy's breathing and to his own, feeling the grip of Teddy's fingertips on his hips, the bulk of Teddy's cock in his hole.

"You can go ahead and move now, Teddy," he said after a moment, and before he had even finished his sentence, Teddy had started to thrust, just short thrusts at first, but soon he gained confidence as Remus encouraged him and he began to fuck Remus in earnest.

"Oh, my god, Dad," Teddy gasped behind him, moving even faster. "Dad, I can't believe--this is brilliant!"

He sounded so childlike, so wondering, that Remus couldn't help but laugh. "Oh, Teddy. I do love you." The words slipped out before he'd realised he was going to say them, but when he paused to measure their effect, they didn't feel strange. Besides, Teddy was too caught up in doing what he was doing, Remus supposed, to overthink such simple words.

"You're so good at this," Remus said, and it was true--though his rhythm was rough, Teddy seemed to be taking well to his occupation, and Remus was about to continue praising him when Teddy shifted and hit Remus's prostate.

Remus gasped, seeing stars, and his cock twitched with interest.

"Is that it, Dad?" Teddy asked. "Did I--fuck--did I hit it?"

"You did," Remus choked, and he gave his cock a few light touches. He knew he wouldn't--couldn't--get hard again, but it felt good to touch himself nonetheless.

"Dad, I--I don't think I'm going to last," Teddy confessed then. "I'm sorry--fuck--"

Remus shook his head. "Don't be sorry, Teddy. Do what feels good. I want you to come inside me."

Just saying those words sent a thrill through him, the breaking of a taboo an excitement like nothing else.

"Ohgod, yes." Teddy's voice was strangled. He sped up, slamming into Remus's hips. "Going to--ohfuck, oh, Dad!"

Teddy collapsed over Remus's back, panting in hot bursts against his skin. Remus eased himself down into a more comfortable position where his knees wouldn't ache with holding up the weight of an extra body, and felt Teddy's cock slip a little, letting a trickle of semen drip across Remus's bollocks.

"That was brilliant," said Teddy again, mumbling sleepily. He pressed kisses onto Remus's shoulder. "Really."

Remus didn't want to lose the last contact, but he wanted to see Teddy's face, hold him close, so he urged, "Roll over." When Teddy had slid off his back, Remus turned over and pulled Teddy to him, regardless of sweat and come pooling sticky on their skins.

"You were pretty brilliant yourself," Remus said softly, kissing Teddy's closed eyelids. Teddy smiled.

"Thanks, Dad. For a first time, you mean."

"Not just for a first time," contradicted Remus. He smoothed Teddy's sweat-damp fringe back from his forehead. "I've been with men who had years of experience and were less good as lovers than you were just now. It's not just the number of times you have sex, it's how you do it, paying attention to your partner as well as yourself."

Teddy's face went pink and he burrowed it into Remus's neck. "I tried to do it like you did, that's all."

Warmth spread throughout Remus's body at the words. "That's the best compliment you could possibly give me." All his indecision about whether he should teach Teddy in this way, all the guilt and discomfort he'd felt from time to time--none of that meant anything compared with the trust and respect implied by Teddy's simple statement.

A yawn overtook him. "Sorry--no comment on you, I assure you."

Teddy laughed. "I'm kind of wiped out myself now."

"Would you like to sleep?" Remus asked, and he held out his arms.

Teddy burrowed into the embrace. "More than anything, Dad," he answered.

Remus realised, as Teddy snuggled against him, that they hadn't cuddled close and slept like this since Teddy was a very small boy. Perhaps, he hoped, when they awoke, they would have come full circle--from father and son to the lovers Remus swore they would never be, and back to just father and son again.

As he listened to Teddy's breathing evening out, Remus tried to reflect coherently on all they had done together, but he was really as tired as he had said, and soon he found himself drifting, holding Teddy close.

He awoke suddenly from a dream he couldn't quite remember, convinced that Sam was in the house. He froze and clutched Teddy to him, listening for the slightest creak of floorboards or shriek of door hinges.

He held his breath and listened.

When he heard nothing, he forced himself to believe it was all a part of his dream, and he breathed again and rolled over and looked at the clock. It was early evening--he and Teddy had had a nice long nap together.

He awakened his son with kisses, some of the last, he knew, that they would ever share--the last of this nature, anyway. He kissed Teddy on the forehead and on his eyelids, on his nose and on both cheeks, and finally on his mouth, rousing Teddy from the depths of sleep.

"Time to wake up, Ted," he coaxed, and Teddy moaned and stretched with seeming reluctance, not opening his eyes.

"I was having the nicest dream," he murmured, and he pressed a languorous kiss to Remus's chest.

"It's over now, though, Ted," Remus said, brushing a lock of hair from Teddy's forehead. "Time to wake."

Teddy grumbled and sighed but finally opened his eyes, blinking the sleep from them. "'m all sticky."

"So am I. Just a minute." Remus crawled a little stiffly out of bed and went to the bathroom. Dampening a towel under the tap, he glanced in the mirror and laughed softly at the red creases over his face. He wiped himself down, then rinsed the towel and took it back to the bedroom where Teddy was now sitting with his feet dangling over the side of the bed.

After a moment's hesitation, he said, "Stand up." He cleaned Teddy off as impersonally as he could, ignoring the way that Teddy's cock responded to his touches. "You can shower if you'd rather?"

"No." Teddy shook his head almost violently. "No, this is fine." He began to pull on his clothes, and Remus did likewise.

"I was going to cook a roast for us, but it's later than I expected. How would you feel about just getting some takeaway?" Remus asked. "Curry or fish and chips or whatever you'd like."

"Fish and chips," Teddy decided. "I haven't had that since Christmas Eve, I don't think."

Teddy went to fetch their dinner, and Remus tidied up the bedroom, clearing away all traces of their activity except those that lingered in his own body, and those would be gone soon enough. He went to his study and found the piece of parchment on which he'd written out the plan for their lessons, still disguised as a grocery list, and put it away with a few other very private mementos. By the time he'd done all that, Teddy was back again, pulling out plates from the cupboard and putting the fish and chips and peas on them.

"I just want to ask, Ted," said Remus, sprinkling vinegar over his portion with a lavish hand, "how you're feeling about everything I've taught you, now."

Teddy poked at his fish with his fork, then nibbled at a chip before answering. "I'm not sorry about any of it, if that's what you mean."

"Well, that, but I was wondering more if you thought it was worthwhile. The whole point was so that you'd learn at least the basics in a way that wouldn't be dangerous, as it might have been with a stranger or even with another boy your own age like Andrew who didn't know much either. So do you feel like you learned what you hoped?"

Teddy turned his face towards Remus's gaze, and he gave a smile that didn't quite reach his eyes--a smile that Remus didn't quite believe. "I definitely do," he said.

Remus didn't want to push, but he knew they wouldn't have another chance to have this conversation, and he needed an answer to his question, if only to settle his own mind. So he asked again.

"Somehow, Ted, I don't quite believe you. Are you sure?"

Teddy ducked his head and murmured something that sounded like I'll get over it.

"What's that, Ted?" Remus was genuinely curious now, and he paused with a chip halfway to his mouth.

"Sorry. I." Teddy lifted his head again. "I just said I'm probably going to take a while to get over this--not being able to have you anymore, not in the way we've been doing. But, yes, Dad, I really did learn everything I'd hoped to learn, and, um. Thank you. So much."

Remus bit into the chip and chewed thoughtfully, then reached over and gave his son's hand a squeeze. "If it makes you feel better, Ted, you're not the only one who learned quite a bit during our encounters. Though what I learned is probably harder to describe in words, trust that I did learn plenty."

"Oh. Okay." Teddy clearly had no idea what Remus was talking about, but that was just as well, Remus supposed.

"Sam and I are going to be leaving for our holiday the weekend after next," Remus said, surprising even himself with how rapidly he switched subjects. "Is there anything you'd like me to bring back from France for you?"

"Oh--um. No. I don't think so," Teddy replied. Remus would bring Teddy back a souvenir anyway, and he made a mental note to bring something for Andrew as well.

"I suppose you and Andrew will have a good time while we're gone," said Remus, with no need for a wink or a nudge--he was sure Teddy knew exactly what he meant. "Do you think the two of you could manage to water my houseplants?"

"How long are you going to be gone?"

"About ten days. We're taking a late Portkey on Friday evening, and we'll be back Sunday night the following week. Most of the plants would be all right, but the ferns need water more often than that."

"Sure, Dad. Write up a list of when each should be watered and we'll do it." Teddy swiped a finger through the drips of vinegar and scattered salt on his plate and sucked it. Remus swallowed and glanced down, concentrating on picking up a forkful of peas. "Um. Would it be all right if I, we, stayed overnight maybe? You know Andrew likes to cook, and your kitchen has every kind of weird spice and odd-shaped pan he could ever want to use."

"That's a pretty transparent excuse, but yes, you may stay here while I'm gone. Just leave the place tidy, all right?"

"Of course." Teddy put on a mock-indignant face. "What do you think I'd do?"

"Leave it the way your flat usually looks." Remus raised his eyebrows. "You may borrow any of my books, too, if you want."

Teddy grinned. "I'd like that. We, uh, looked through one of them together last time. Andrew thought it was cool that you lent them to me. Maybe I'll take a couple away tonight."

"That's fine. I'll owl you the plant-watering list sometime in the next two weeks." Remus stood and started to clear away the plates. "There's some treacle tart in the cupboard if you want any."

"No thanks." Teddy came up behind Remus and put his arms around Remus's waist. "I should probably be going; I told Andrew I'd Floo-call him tonight when I get home."

Remus turned around to hug Teddy properly. "All right. I'm very happy for you that things are going well with Andrew, and I hope they keep on that way."

"Me, too." Teddy's hair was changing colour to magenta, but when he saw that Remus had noticed it, he put it back to brown. "I'm glad you're going on your holiday with Sam, myself. I mean, not that I'm glad you're going away. Glad that it's with Sam. He's great."

"Yes, he is." Remus felt his mouth stretch in a fond smile. He gave Teddy one last squeeze, then let go.

"You should get home," he said, "And I should--" he looked at the clock; he had been going to say "get to bed", but it was much earlier than he thought. "I should make a Floo call myself," he amended. He would call Sam; they could talk a bit about their upcoming trip and Remus could tell him that everything was all right with Teddy.

"Okay," said Teddy, and he gave a resolute sort of nod. He almost looked as if he were going to say something else, but he just shut his mouth and shook his head and smiled.

"I'll see you, Dad," he said, and he turned and walked towards the fireplace.

Remus watched him go, a hand raised in farewell.

He would see his son soon enough.







Dear Ted (and Andrew, too),

Salut from Marseille! Sam and I are having a lovely time. I wish he'd convinced me to come away sooner. The weather is fantastic, and Sam even managed to get me into the water for a little while--I'm still not sure how he did that. We've had some wonderful meals, and the weather's been


"Sam!" Remus laughed, "I'm writing to Ted!"

"So I see," replied Sam, nuzzling at Remus's neck and encircling him with his arms, "But this is our holiday. Or have you forgotten?" He took the postcard and the silly Muggle biro from Remus's hands and tugged him up from his seat. "You can finish that postcard later," he said, "after you've shagged me rotten."

"That can be arranged, I think," said Remus, and he left the desk and let Sam pull him down upon the bed.

Sam kissed Remus's fingers, lingering longest on the one where a gold ring shone.



"It's weird to be here without your dad," Andrew said, looking around the kitchen. "He's just so there, if you know what I mean?"

Teddy nodded. "He said it was fine, though. I should probably water the plants first thing so I don't forget. Come on. You can start playing with the fish poacher and the bamboo steamer and whatever else later." He pulled the slightly crumpled list of instructions out of his pocket and smoothed it, although he had pretty well memorised what needed to be done; it wasn't difficult, just remembering all the places his dad had plants and watering all of them.

He'd mentally planned out the route through the house. In each room he stole a kiss or a grope with Andrew, which at first Andrew resisted--"It's your dad's house!"--but Teddy pointed out that they weren't hurting anything and that Remus wouldn't be back for a week.

Kitchen, living room, study, Remus's bedroom; there were no plants in Teddy's old room, as he'd invariably managed to kill them, and Remus hadn't yet put anything new in. The last place they went to was the spare room, where a large and somewhat dusty philodendron lurked in a corner near the window.

"There," said Teddy, setting the watering can down with a flourish, "that's that."

Andrew had sat down on the edge of the bed while Teddy was watering the philodendron, and Teddy took that as a good sign. Before Andrew could get up, he went over and stood before him, taking a deep breath before he spoke.

"Andrew."

"What is it?" Andrew raised his thin face to Teddy's.

"I--we've talked about having sex, proper sex, when we were both ready for it." Teddy swallowed. "I am if you are."

"Today? Now? Here?" Andrew looked doubtful. "Why not in your flat, or mine? Or at least in your bedroom?"

"Call it superstition. If we did it in my bedroom here, I'd probably never be able to get to sleep there again, I'd be too hard thinking about you. Same in either of our flats." Teddy grinned. "You don't want to give me insomnia, do you?"

That wasn't the real reason, of course. Much as Teddy had appreciated the way that Remus had done up his own bedroom for their final lesson, since all of the others had taken place here in the spare room, he'd sort of missed finishing them off here. Having sex with Andrew here instead felt like it would round things off nicely.

Andrew gave Teddy a half-smile. "I definitely wouldn't want to be the cause of insomnia," he said.

"Good," Teddy replied, and he sat beside Andrew and leaned over to give him a long, slow kiss. Teddy put one hand on Andrew's knee and Andrew put one hand on Teddy's shoulder and they kissed there for a long time until the kiss grew too intense, and Teddy broke it off, panting slightly.

"Were you thinking, um--" said Andrew, but he cut himself off before he could finish.

Teddy took in Andrew's flushed face and reddened lips, and it was a moment before he answered. "Was I thinking what?" he finally asked.

"You know--did you want to be on top, or on bottom?" Andrew asked. He leaned forward for another kiss before Teddy could properly answer--almost before he had finished asking the question--and Teddy's mind reeled. Which did he want? He had certainly enjoyed being the one to penetrate Remus at the end of their last lesson, but in the moment, with Andrew, he thought he might want quite the opposite. He wasn't sure how ready he was to be inside anyone but Remus, though he knew he wasn't supposed to be thinking like that.

"I want you inside me," he said between kisses, his lips still resting against Andrew's.

"You--are you sure?" Andrew pulled his face away, and Teddy blinked, then gave a single nod.

"Definitely," he said. "More sure than I've ever been of anything, I think." He hoped that didn't sound like overkill, but it was true.

A grin broke over Andrew's face. "I want that, too," he said, "so I was kind of hoping you might say that. I mean--not that the other wouldn't have been brilliant, too, I'm sure, but--well."

"You don't have to say it. I know." And Teddy smiled and reached for the buttons of Andrew's shirt and began to unfasten them. Andrew let out a breath that came in shudders and tipped back his head and let Teddy undress him, and Teddy pressed kisses to each inch of skin that he revealed. Of course they had been naked together before, many times, but this--this was something special.

When Andrew was naked--and sporting an erection that Teddy had had no small part in creating, between kisses and licks and nibbles--he began to undress Teddy, copying Teddy's kisses and caresses, but Teddy couldn't help noticing that Andrew seemed the tiniest bit distracted.

"Sorry," Andrew said when Teddy asked him if everything was all right. "I just--we left the door open, and I can't help but think your father's going to walk in at any moment. I know they're on holiday, but still..." He trailed off, giving Teddy a little twist of a smile.

Teddy flicked his wand at the door and it slammed shut, then he pounced on Andrew, knocking him flat on his back on the bed. "Better?" he asked.

"Better." Andrew grinned and wriggled, pushing his cock against Teddy's. "Thanks. I know it's silly."

"Nah, it's a kind of creaky old house. I've lived here my whole life and I still sometimes think there's another person around even when I know there isn't." Teddy rubbed his nose on Andrew's neck. "Where were we?"

"Undressing you," said Andrew, and proceeded to finish the job by pulling off Teddy's socks and pants. He paused then and said, "Um--you do have lube, right?"

"It's in my pocket," Teddy admitted, leaning over the side of the bed to grab his trousers and fish out the tube. "I was hoping you'd be okay with the idea of doing it here."

Andrew shook his head. "Perv, planning to have sex in your dad's house, even if he's not home." But his look of disapproval was clearly a pretence, as he put his arms around Teddy and whispered in his ear, "I'm glad you brought it."

"I didn't bring a plug or anything though, to loosen things up." Teddy bit his lip.

"That's okay," Andrew said immediately. "I expect fingers will do, yeah? But, um, we'd probably better be getting on with it." His face went pink. "Only I'm not sure how long I can wait."

Teddy smirked slightly. "Why'd you think I said I wanted to bottom? Just kidding--you'll be fine, I'm sure. Want me to do the lube for myself, though?"

"If you would. I'd like to watch you do it." Andrew was still blushing. Teddy decided that maybe this was not the time to try to put on a show, as he did not want Andrew to come as soon as they started.

"Okay." He curled up a little on his side, facing Andrew, and raised his upper knee almost to his shoulder so that Andrew could see what he was doing, then squeezed some of the slippery gel onto his fingers and reached down to finger his arsehole.

"God, you look sexy, Ted," Andrew said, his eyes dilated. "Remember those pictures we looked at in those books of your dad's? Think we could manage to shag face to face, just like this?"

Teddy finished lubricating himself and knit his eyebrows together as he brought his hand up and wiped it on the duvet. "I don't know," he said. "It seems like it could be a bit tricky. Maybe we could start--here, like this--" He rolled onto his back and turned his head so he was still facing Andrew. "Me on my back, yeah? And then if we want to roll onto our sides, we're already connected?"

Andrew smiled and straddled Teddy, stroking his own erection. "And if we don't, well, we're already face-to-face."

"That's the idea, yeah," said Teddy, and he smiled and kissed Andrew and began touching himself as well. There was already precome welling in his slit, and he smeared it all around the head of his cock.

"All right," said Andrew, and he braced himself with one hand and slipped the other between Teddy's legs. "Do you want me to--?" he asked, and he pushed the very tip of one finger inside Teddy's arsehole.

"Oh, fuck, yes, I want you to," Teddy gasped, and he drew up his knees and pushed down on Andrew's finger, greedy for more, which Andrew gave him.

Andrew slipped in a second digit after a minute, and finally a third, stretching Teddy as he gasped and writhed.

"That's good," Teddy finally said. "That's fine. Enough. I want you now."

"I want you," said Andrew, shifting positions. "I want you too, I mean. Fuck--I can't believe we're about to do this." He positioned himself between Teddy's legs, and Teddy drew his knees up further as Andrew's cockhead nudged his entrance.

Teddy's eyes went wide, and he looked at Andrew's face--Andrew's eyes were just as wide, and his mouth hung slightly open.

"Are you ready?" Andrew breathed.

"Absolutely," replied Teddy, and Andrew began to push.

"Oh," they said in unison, and then Andrew said, "God, that's--tight, ohgod, so good," and Teddy said, "Please--can you stop for a second," and breathed hard, trying to relax and get used to the feeling which was very much like when it had been Remus inside him, but in an indefinable way different too.

"Sorry, yes, you all right?" asked Andrew worriedly. He was bracing himself up with both hands, and over his eye had fallen a lock of hair which he blew at. Teddy reached up and brushed it off Andrew's forehead.

"Yeah, just need a minute to get used to it." He shifted his hips slightly. "Okay, go on."

Andrew pushed more slowly now but steadily until his cock was all the way inside Teddy's arse. "Oh, Ted." He looked like he might cry. Red-faced and sweaty, he lowered his head and brushed his lips over Teddy's. "I'm really close. Fuck. If I move I think I'm going to come."

"Don't move then," said Teddy. "You feel good just like that anyhow." It did feel good, warm and full and close.

He waited, watching Andrew's face, until Andrew gulped and nodded and said, "I think I can go on a bit now. It's not like anything--well, we'll try it the other way 'round sometime and you'll see."

Then Andrew pulled out, maybe halfway Teddy guessed, and started thrusting into Teddy's arse. Teddy could tell he was trying not to do it too hard or fast. He wasn't brushing over Teddy's prostate the way Remus had done, but Teddy realised that Andrew was probably too distracted to even think about trying to do that, so he gripped his own softened cock and stroked it instead.

"Ohfuck, ohfuck, Ted--god, it, you, ohyes--" Andrew babbled, and thrust harder, and it hurt some but Teddy didn't care just then, for he was too busy watching Andrew come undone.

"That was incredible," mumbled Andrew into Teddy's chest, where he'd collapsed, trapping Teddy's hand and his cock. "Just--being inside you, you know?"

"Mm hm." Teddy put his other arm around Andrew and with an effort rolled them over onto their sides. Andrew's eyelids fluttered open.

"Was it okay for you?"

"I--yeah. Yes." It really had been, even if he hadn't come. Just having had Andrew inside him, being the cause of what had seemed like a brilliant orgasm, had been pretty great.

It hadn't been enough, but it had been good. He reached between their bodies to grip his demanding cock.

Andrew shifted, and Teddy saw a look of realisation cross his face.

"Oh--you didn't--" he said.

"It's all right," replied Teddy, though it wasn't actually entirely all right. "If you--would you just--" Suddenly he found it difficult to make his request.

"What?" asked Andrew.

"Just stay inside me for a minute more," Teddy said all in a rush, and he began jerking his cock, fairly certain he could come quickly, especially with Andrew's cock still in his arse.

Andrew pressed himself to Teddy and laid a lazy trail of kisses all along Teddy's neck while Teddy jerked himself, letting out little grunts and moans, and finally Teddy whispered that he was close, and Andrew used his teeth, then, to scrape the sensitive skin of Teddy's throat, and Teddy swore and came, his seed sticky between their bodies, over his hand, coating his cock and dribbling onto the duvet.

"Ohh," Teddy sighed as he closed his eyes and let go of his cock. Andrew shifted again and Teddy felt a sudden emptiness as Andrew's cock slipped from his hole.

"That was more like it, huh?" Andrew asked softly for a moment, and Teddy chuckled.

"Definitely," he said. He raised his face and gave Andrew a kiss. "We'll have to try it again sometimes," he said.

"Yeah," replied Andrew, stretching. "That was good, but I'm sure we can do better with a little practise." He grinned, and Teddy grinned, too, and nodded, and rolled over so that his back was against Andrew's chest. Andrew slung an arm around him, and they lay spooned together there on Remus's guest bed.

"I could stay like this forever, I think," said Teddy with a yawn.

Andrew nuzzled the back of his neck. "I could, too, except that I'd feel pretty embarrassed when your dad got home." He chuckled softly. "And besides, they'd chuck me off the team--and I don't want that, not when I'm probably going to be made a starter this season."

"Really?" Teddy twisted his head and torso so he could see Andrew's face. "That's brilliant! How come you didn't tell me sooner?"

"It's not definite yet--I wasn't going to say anything until it was, so I wouldn't jinx it--stupid, huh? And anyhow now, I don't know, I feel so good that I almost don't care if I do."

"You won't," said Teddy firmly. "You'll be starter, and you'll be wicked good. I'll come to watch your first match and cheer you on, and I'll bring my dad and Sam and maybe Simon, too. If that's okay?"

"Yeah." Andrew sounded a little doubtful, though.

Teddy kissed him. "Okay. And when Portree wins, we can do whatever you like to celebrate."

Privately Teddy thought that he didn't need to celebrate anything, anymore; he couldn't imagine his life getting any better than this.

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ch. 1 / ch. 2 / ch. 3 / ch. 4 / ch. 5 / ch. 6 / ch. 7 / ch. 8 / ch. 9 / ch. 10 / ch. 11 / ch. 12 / ch. 13 / ch. 14 / ch. 15 / ch. 16 / ch. 17 / ch. 18 / ch. 19 / ch. 20 / ch. 21 / ch. 22


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[info]torino10154
2008-12-29 10:54 am UTC (link)
Well. I'm sitting in shock that it's over. In this chapter, loved the rimming-guh! And their easy manner with each other over fish and chips. Liked Teddy's honesty in admitting he'd miss their intimacy. Adored the postcard-great touch-I love doing things like that in fic, too! As sweet first time with Andrew.

Indulge me for a moment with a long comment on the entire fic-in the early chapters, when Remus and Teddy first started everything felt so wrong and dirty (and very hot!!), I was absolutely certain someone would catch them. Then as the story progressed and they each found happiness or at least someone to be with.

And then he seemed really wrong to even continue the lessons-every time Remus said he would do it just because he had said he would I wanted to smack him. :P

Then as I mentioned a chapter or two ago, it became clear that they really did belong with their respective partners but there was no (well, little) harm in finishing their lessons. They had already done so much.

At this point I interrupt myself to say you have no idea how much I loved the idea of Remus/Teddy *revels in the wrongness* and to admit I wanted them with these other guys, well, that was very clever work on your part.

I think this line sums everything up best -

Mostly he was all right with the realisation both that he'd actually fucked his son, and that he never would again--but there would always be a small stab of guilt to have done it, and a pang of regret to know that there would never be another time.

All that said, I've really enjoyed this fic. Well done both of you.

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[info]emiime
2008-12-29 11:26 am UTC (link)
I'm kind of in shock that it's over, too! Thanks for sticking with us the whole way. They definitely do both belong with their respective partners, and it was a little sad ending the remus/teddy thing but really it had to end, and both of them are going to be just fine. :)

Thank you!

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[info]celandineb
2008-12-29 11:34 am UTC (link)
What Emi said - it's hard to believe that it's finished! *is a little sad about that*

I think we both wanted to explore the whole Remus/Teddy dynamic, but to be realistic about it, it was never really possible for them to end up together. Sam and Andrew were much better choices for each in the long run... and they are going to be fine.

Thanks so much for reading along for this whole saga! {{hugs}}

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[info]whitestar
2008-12-29 02:31 pm UTC (link)
I skim read this first and will go back and read it more thoroughly later. I wasn't quite sure how you planned on ending this since usually you alternate POV's so that if last week was Teddy's POV we wouldn't see what happened with Teddy/Andrew in this chapter. But I like how you worked them into the story.

I'm probably going to be the only one who is going to say I'm disappointed with how the story ended up. Somehow I'd always hoped that Remus and Teddy wouldn't go through with it and would remain some what faithful to their partners considering everything they'd already done and especially after proclamations of love. To me, their relationships will have deep secrets and lies and I think that is oh so very wrong. Andrew will continue to think that Ted will have been his first since that's what Ted told him, but it's a big lie even if he never finds out. And I believe it would hurt him terribly if he did.

There have been other incest stories between siblings that somehow didn't bother me because there were no attachments with other partners with the participants. But because other people were drawn into Remus/Teddy's circle, then it's a web of lies and deceit and that really does bothers me. I really enjoyed the story until the last two chapters, especially the chapters with their partners and the chapter where Teddy seduced Remus.

Unfortunately, I'm disappointed with the way the story ended and it hit even futher home when Sam and Remus were married, how unfaithful physically and emotionally Remus had been to Sam and yet he still lives this lie that he had never been. And Andrew here - well, we'll try it the other way 'round sometime and you'll see. So innocent and so deceived by the person he loves. That is so very wrong. Tell me how many people you know that would be OK with just the affair if it was a one off? No wonder Remus and Ted have to keep it secret, and not just because of the incest.

Their happiness with what they did and with their partners at the end doesn't hide the secrets and lies. It's a good story with an unfortunate ending that in a way makes me feel like I've been betrayed and makes me very sad. Incest was one thing, it's the affair that was so wrong no matter if it was called teaching or not. At the end it wasn't, not really and that hurts.

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[info]emiime
2008-12-30 02:10 am UTC (link)
I'm sorry you disliked the ending, but glad you were a faithful reader. Yes, there are lots of secrets and lies going on here. Remus is definitely a deeply flawed character and I'd say it's safe to assume that Teddy inherited some of his flaws. But Cel and I both liked this ending and wanted to let Teddy's and Remus's relationship run its course.

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[info]whitestar
2008-12-30 02:45 am UTC (link)
I hope you don't think I disliked the story, because I really liked it and wouldn't have stuck with it otherwise. I think it's one of the most interesting I have read. Your characters were very real and I totally loved Sam and Andrew. I just disapprove of what Remus and Teddy did in letting it all go too far. So until the last two chapters I held out hope they'd come to their senses, unfortunately they didn't because they were too selfish. As you said, very flawed characters and you showed that well.

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[info]celandineb
2008-12-30 06:43 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much for all your comments throughout the past months! I can understand why the ending wasn't what you'd hoped, but that was how we felt it had to be in order to be true to the characters as we'd developed them.

For Remus and Teddy, it was teaching/learning, and although yes, a secret from their partners, I don't think either of them saw it as a betrayal in quite the way you read it, since although there were some unspoken assumptions, neither Remus/Sam nor Teddy/Andrew had made any overt commitments to be exclusive. Perhaps someday Teddy will tell Andrew that he had in fact done more than he admitted originally, although I doubt he will say who his partner was.

I'm glad you liked the story as a whole even though you'd hoped it would end differently!

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[info]magnetic_pole
2008-12-29 04:20 pm UTC (link)
Wow! It's over. I can hardly believe it. (22 weeks? Where does the time go?)

First off, this has been a fabulous story, and I've loved the weekly posts. Something about the serial format really works for me personally and for this story particularly. To my mind, this has always been a story about Teddy's growth, and I came to *believe* in his growth over a period of four months or so in a way I might not have, had I simply read a long fic in a sitting or two. It had that long, leisurely pace that made me feel like I was spending time with the characters, not just reading a story about their lives.

I have to admit that I had reservations about the Remus/Teddy subplot all the way through and am still sitting here wondering how I feel about the way the story ended. They finished the lessons, after all! I didn't know if they would. I couldn't decide if we were in the moral universe of the PWP, in which any two hot characters are even hotter together--perhaps even more so if there's a taboo involved--or the moral universe of the plot-driven story in which, fairly or unfairly, characters who step outside society's bounds need to deal with the consequences. It was uncomfortable--in a good way!--for me to think about my relationship with these characters, what I wanted for them, how judgmental I felt about their decisions. (I was very frustrated and angry with Remus; Teddy I tended to sympathize with and forgive.) I half expected total disaster the entire time--someone finding out, Remus or Teddy unable to break away, one hurting the other. The fact that they finished their lesson and moved on to their respective partners makes me think about why the the Remus/Teddy struck me as so wrong and made me so uncomfortable (was it, really? If they were two consenting adults, and no one was hurt?), especially in light of the fic's overall sex-positive messages. Which I loved, by the way.

Finally, I adored Teddy's frank desire to know more about love and sex and experience them fully. He was such a believable, engaging late-teen. I'll have a hard time moving on to another characterization for him.

In sum, fabulous! Congrats to you on a huge accomplishment! Hope you're cooking up something new for the new year. Maggie

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[info]emiime
2008-12-30 02:18 am UTC (link)
I'm so glad the serial format worked like that for you! That is awesome to hear. I hadn't thought about it like that as a writer, but that is so cool to know that you felt that way from the other side of it.

I think that we're sort of straddling universes, honestly. There is, after all, a lot of sex in this story! But the overarching plotline mixes things up a bit in the PWP world, if that makes sense. (Sorry, I'm a bit tired, so may be a bit babbly.) And there are certainly imperfect actions and decisions on both Remus's and Teddy's part. But I believe both Cel and I were thinking that they're really going to be okay, that the final sex act was closure and healing as much as it was taboo and investing them as far as they could go into their shared secret. And, yes, it's definitely easier to sympathize with Teddy than with Remus, the supposed adult, the teacher.

I am definitely glad you liked the sex-positive message of the fic. I think that's something we can all agree on--sex is awesome and fun and we should all explore! So glad you liked our Teddy, too--he became very real to us as we were writing.

♥ Thank you so much! And thank you for being a faithful reader.

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[info]celandineb
2008-12-30 06:58 pm UTC (link)
{{hugs}} Thanks, Maggie! I agree with Emi about the straddling of universes - both PWP and plotty fic showed here, or at least if not precisely plotty, significant character development.

As soon as we decided that it was going to be more than just six lessons in six chapters, I think we both wrote with the understanding that they would eventually "have sex" in Teddy's definition of the term, and that that would be the closure and the conclusion of the story. But we also both wanted to make sure it was a happy ending... because sex should be positive, even when there are tabooed aspects to it.

the Remus/Teddy struck me as so wrong and made me so uncomfortable (was it, really? If they were two consenting adults, and no one was hurt?)

*nods* There are taboos, and there are taboos. But yes, although both were consenting, and Teddy very much the instigator, so that there wasn't a serious power imbalance in that way... it's still one of the big taboos, parent/child incest. Even though in this case there's also nothing problematic biologically.

Glad you liked Teddy so well! *g* We totally fell in love with all these characters/characterizations (Remus being really the only canon character, in effect). I think you're right that the serial format ended up being effective for this since it posted over a similar length of time to the "time" of the story (though obviously the story didn't plod on week by week). Something to consider in future... although at the moment we don't have any specific plans!

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[info]westernredcedar
2008-12-29 04:36 pm UTC (link)
*CHEERS*
I cannot believe that we made it to the end without any disasters! You guys are such teases...honestly, I was holding my breathe through every week's installment, waiting for the horror of Andrew or (somehow much much worse) Sam finding out, or walking in, or somehow getting a hint. In the last few weeks I'd decided that it was all going to work out, based on the length of time left in the fic, and I'm pleased as punch that I was right. Phew! *wipes brow* You wrote happy, healthy incest!! HA! *laughs at you* That is the craziest thing of all!
I've really enjoyed going on this journey, as uncomfortable and squirmy and freaked out as it made me sometimes. (and Emi, I want to know now which line you wrote that you thought was the filthiest thing ever...I had a few guesses as I read, but there was lots of QUALITY competition! :D) Congrats you guys! This was a huge feat, especially in creating such well rounded OCs who I will totally miss. YAY!

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[info]whitestar
2008-12-29 07:46 pm UTC (link)
I have to agree with you in that I completely loved Sam and Andrew, they were great :) Makes me wonder why I hear that people don't like original characters. I wouldn't mind reading more about Sam and Andrew in future fics ^_^

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[info]emiime
2008-12-30 02:26 am UTC (link)
♥! I can't believe we are at the end, period! Heh, sorry about the teasing, but you had to know that with Cel and me writing, there'd at least be a semblance of a happy ending. :)

Happy, healthy incest is the best phrase I have heard all day. XD And while this wasn't always happy, and it definitely wasn't always healthy, all parties involved are going to be just fine, and I guess that's the point of it all.

Hah, I'd forgotten about that! :D For the record, it's filling him with the seed that had created him. Yeah, I just kind of sat back and went "...ew" as if I hadn't been writing father-son sex scenes for weeks at that point. I crack myself up.

♥ Cedar, thank you for being such an awesome reader and supporter and commenter! We'll miss these boys, too.

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[info]celandineb
2008-12-30 07:01 pm UTC (link)
Hee! Thank you so much, Cedar, for taking this journey with us!

You wrote happy, healthy incest!! HA! *laughs at you* That is the craziest thing of all!

We are both crazy, or didn't you know that? I can't believe I poked Emi to write Remus/Teddy, more or less jokingly, and that she took me up on it and THIS resulted, which I'm really proud of us for.

creating such well rounded OCs who I will totally miss. YAY!

Awww. We loved Sam and Andrew (and Teddy too, really, was in effect an OC), and it was so nice to have readers love them just as much! *smooches you*

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(Anonymous)
2008-12-29 04:48 pm UTC (link)
I agree and I dissagree with the above. I liked the way it ended, because I'de be terrified to read if Sam had walked in on them. I agree because though I will never condone love (and what they were sharing was love) I do condone incest. It was different than incest in the way that Remus and Teddy just loved each other, and Remus wanted to help him. It might have strayed, but wouldn't it naturally if sex was involved? I think Teddy had alot of confidence issues, and Remus was a concerned parent. I don't know if I would call it 'cheating' on Sam and Andrew. I think at times, Ted did want Remus instead of Andrew (and that might have had something to do with the breakup). But I would call it a very very VERY good fic. I think there are many sides to this conversation. It's best to enjoy the writing, and to remember that there is a fine line between love and incest. But god, I feared they might cross it from time to time! Compelling read! I loved it from start to finish!

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[info]whitestar
2008-12-29 08:03 pm UTC (link)
I think there are many sides to this conversation. It's best to enjoy the writing

I agree with you on this, it was what I was thinking. The story was interesting even though I didn't like what Remus and Ted ended up cheating physically and emotionally on Sam and Andrew, not necessarily the incest.

I believe lying like that and keeping it a secret has a detrimental effect on a relationship. Remus may be able to keep the secret, but Ted has already slipped a couple times, what happened may come out. Ted has also already lied and manipulated Andrew to have sex at Remus's house for personal reasons. What would Andrew have said if he knew the real reason? That doesn't seem healthy. Maybe Andrew would have said OK if he did know, but he wasn't given the honest choice.

Lying and I do call it cheating, since Remus and Ted were in love with Sam and Andrew at that time and Andrew went through a lot to be with Ted. He thought he would be having Ted to himself and he's been completely lied to. I think that's much worse than Remus/Ted relationship, although I don't think most parents would have sex with their kids just because the kid as low confidence issues on sex. If there were no Sam and Andrew, then I don't believe this story would have bothered me as much.

Like I mentioned though, I think I'll probably be the only one who thinks that it's morally wrong to cheat either physically or emotionally with someone no matter how they are related, when that person already has a partner that loves them and you love back. Unless it's open and is agreed upon by both partners.

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[info]emiime
2008-12-30 02:33 am UTC (link)
I think I'll probably be the only one who thinks that it's morally wrong to cheat either physically or emotionally with someone no matter how they are related

I think you'll find you're not. Neither of your authors, for example, think it's okay to cheat on a committed relationship.

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[info]whitestar
2008-12-30 02:52 am UTC (link)
Maybe I should put it that I may be the only one to voice in comments to this story because most people will comment how interesting and sexy the story was (it was, don't get me wrong), without mentioning the negative aspects of the relationship also. Can't help it, it's me, I tend to say what I find both enjoyable and what I find disturbing :)

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[info]emiime
2008-12-30 02:31 am UTC (link)
By "condone", do you mean "condemn"? I think you must (at least I hope you do) because otherwise I'm afraid I'm a bit lost. Anyway, it certainly was straight-up incest, no doubt about that. Ted and Remus were both fully aware of what they were doing. As for the cheating, yes, I believe they were both being unfaithful to their partners, but to them it was something special, something set apart from an everyday "affair". Remus's scared moment when he thinks Sam is in the house it, I think, a prime example of the unfaithfulness. Remus knows, even if it's "only" with Teddy.

I'm quite glad you liked the fic! Thanks for your thoughtful comment!

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[info]celandineb
2008-12-30 07:04 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much! Technically of course there's no question it was incest - sex between parent and child - but we very much tried to show it as based in love and concern, and moreover done at the behest of the child by a reluctant (usually) parent whose motives were good (even if he didn't always live up to his own expectations). Glad you enjoyed it!

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[info]snegurochka_lee
2009-01-30 05:12 pm UTC (link)
CEL AND EMI. OH MY GOD. {{{{HUGS}}}}

I'm so sorry it's taken me so long to get back to comment on the end of this story! Gah. I've read and reread it a few times this month, actually. Heh. It's definitely going down in my favourites folder for PWP fic; that's never been debated. :) But as Maggie mentioned (and omg your comments here are so fascinating to read!), there's a lot more to this story than PWP. It does straddle (cough *is twelve*) both story genres, the PWP and the longer drama.

And I've been thinking A LOT about this story. Please don't take it as criticism; I just want to think out loud here for a second, which I will then (hopefully) wrap up in a coherent conclusion about how much I liked it. Okay, at first, I thought, Hmmmm, nooo, this has missed a fundamental element of a long story, which is a late-act conflict of some sort to be resolved in order to achieve denouement and resolution in the final act. And (as you can tell from my comments along the way) I was utterly convinced, from the beginning of the story, really, that the coming conflict would be someone finding out about Remus and Teddy's relationship.

And so, armed with that expectation, it was somewhat jarring at first to realise that wasn't going to happen.

BUT, the more I've thought about it, I'm not disappointed anymore. Because I've thought about what I would have done as a writer, if this were my story -- how would I have managed that sort of conflict scene, with Sam, Andrew or someone else discovering the secret? What would I have done? And tbh, I HAVE NO CLUE. :/ It's not possible, I now see. There is NO WAY that, within the marvellous universe you've created here, someone could have found them out and the entire fic would not have disintegrated in a hellfire of angst and doom. You know? It would have completely changed the story. Within this universe, again, I stress -- it might have had a different outcome with different characters -- the only way to have Sam or Andrew find out, and keep everyone IC, would have been for them to end their relationships. Neither of them could ever have forgiven Remus and Teddy for this; the relationships would have died completely. And then where does that leave your story?!?!

I see all of that quite clearly now. :)

So, realising all of that also made me rethink the central conflict of the story. Where is it, then, if not external such as a discovery scene? It's internal, is where it is, and whether you meant to or not (I mean, obv you did mean to!), the story is so lovely and nuanced and quietly brilliant for that. What I'm saying is, the conflict I was anticipating for around Chapter 16-19ish? HAS BEEN THERE ALL ALONG, LEE, YOU IDIOT. :) Every time Remus closed his eyes and berated himself, feeling tortured for his desires, was that conflict in action. Every time Teddy lied to Andrew about Remus, was that conflict in action. Every time Remus and Teddy lied to each other was that conflict in action. It's been there from chapters 1-2, really, as Remus made that list of 'activities' for them.

That's a really amazing feat of writing you did just there, you know. :)

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*fails at comment length*
[info]snegurochka_lee
2009-01-30 05:14 pm UTC (link)
And so, viewed that way, this story becomes much darker in my eyes than it seems on first glance. Someone above called it "fluffy incest", which made me giggle. It is that, in a way. But it's also not, to me -- not by a long shot. In fact, the fact that it appears to be fluffy at first is what makes it so beautifully chilling to me. Fluffy incest would never actually have acknowleded the taboo; they would have just proceeded to happily fuck like bunnies. *g* But from the very beginning, as I've said, you were careful to underline that Remus and Teddy -- especially Remus -- knew it was wrong and did it anyway. There are deeply flawed characters, really. Even more so because they don't get caught, and, I think, don't ever really confront that taboo in real time. They are allowed to have this fantasy, to live it out and escape the consequences. That is really dark, in a way!

Someone else mentioned finding it upsetting that Sam and Andrew never find out, that these relationships are predicated on a lie -- especially for Teddy and Andrew, with Teddy outright lying about his first time with penetration. Again, that's precisely where I find this whole story so delightfully dark, at the end of the day. Fluffy? Oh no. Devoid of consequences? Maybe. But we the reader are left knowing so, so much more than the characters do... And not to mention, I seem to recall several comments readers left along the way musing that Sam was hiding something. I think maybe he still is. And Remus is, and Teddy is, and hey, maybe Andrew is, too.

So, I mean, not that I'm trying to pick apart a happy ending you did honestly intend to be happy, but I do see (and adore!) the current of lies/manipulation/immorality running just under the surface. It's extraordinarily subtle, and that's what I love so much about it. This is a fantastic, nuanced story, and I love that hey, readers can see several different things in it.

So that's my interpretation. *g* You probably disagree! That's cool. I did love the story, though, and have had a GREAT time thinking about all of this. Cough. And thinking about it some more, and rereading some parts to make sure I was, uh, thinking about it right, and uh... yeah. Brilliant.

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ !!!!

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ALSO
[info]snegurochka_lee
2009-01-30 05:17 pm UTC (link)
I got all literary there and forgot to mention this:

OH MY GOD REMUS AND TEDDY FINALLY HAVING COCK-PENETRATION SEX WAS THE BEST SCENE IN THE HISTORY OF SCENES OKAY AND REMUS'S COCK BEING WARM AND ALIVE UNLIKE THE PLUGS JUST. JUST. MADE MY BRAIN EXPLODE ALL OVER THE COMPUTER SCREEN BECAUSE OH MY GOD REMUS LUPIN YOU BEAST OF SEX OH MY GOD OH MY GOD FOR REAL JUST. A;LSKJDGLASJG.

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Re: ALSO
[info]celandineb
2009-01-30 05:28 pm UTC (link)
Lee, I love you and want to have your babies. That was the best comment (the series of them) in the history of comments, and the conflict was indeed internal and always meant to be (we never ever that I recall even considered actually having someone find out), and we totally couldn't be saying that as we were posting because it would have given everything away... and although yes, fluffy from one angle I would agree with you that it is dark, because it is full of lies and misrepresentations and doing "wrong" (by all traditional measurements or definitions of "wrong") knowingly.

Seriously, I realized a long time ago that I like characterizing through sex (I've done it solo, with Cruise, and here with Emi - and I think lots of good fanfic authors do this in fact) and in a way this entire fic was a very extended exploration of both Teddy and Remus's characters through their various sexual encounters, with each other and with others too. It's one of my favorite fics that I've ever written, in fact, because I think Emi and I did what we set out to do and did it really well.

*glomps you*

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Re: ALSO
[info]snegurochka_lee
2009-01-30 06:12 pm UTC (link)
YAY!!!! Oh, good. *whew* I have been trying to write a proper comment for weeks now and couldn't figure out what to say. Not to mention that one part of fanfic reading that I love is getting all literary and debating things and discussing story elements and stuff, but of course, most authors don't want me to do that, because it usually involves at least a little bit of, "Uh, this part kind of didn't work? But then it did, and I liked the other thing about the guy in the place." So I didn't want to do that to you guys, but also, I couldn't leave an honest comment without bringing up my expectations and how they changed, so yay, I'm glad you're not offended. :)

That's really interesting, that you never even considered having anyone find out! Funny how my brain works, then -- that's the first thing I expected when I started reading the story. Ha! Remember? I was all, "Wow, is this ever going to be a train wreck." AHahaha, win. :)

Anyway, yes, characterising through sex. I like doing that too. It's really hard! Kudos to you two. This is amazing. :)

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Re: ALSO
[info]celandineb
2009-01-30 07:29 pm UTC (link)
Not to mention that one part of fanfic reading that I love is getting all literary and debating things and discussing story elements and stuff, but of course, most authors don't want me to do that

*laughing* Dude. I love that part, and it just doesn't often happen!

I think actually that most readers probably expected a train wreck, with someone discovering the Remus/Teddy going on... that would be a fairly traditional way to handle such a situation and have high drama! and angst! and people getting their comeuppance! But no, honestly, as far as I can remember we didn't even consider it. We really wanted that "happy ending" and it would (as you noted) have been impossible if either Sam or Andrew found out. There was really plenty of angst in the whole guilt trip that Remus spent pretty much the whole fic on, and even Teddy to some extent; it was just lower-key angst, internalized, and maybe harder for them to cope with on that account because e.g. Remus had no one to talk to or confide in about his qualms and his guilt, he had to make all the decisions on his own and be conflicted about them and unsure if he was making good ones (his past history not exactly tending to be reassuring on that point) until the bitter end when it's all over.

*bounces* I'm so, so glad you liked this, Lee.

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